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> using named characters with a custom paint scheme
dvaston
post Aug 15 2018, 01:10 PM
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Not sure if this is the right place to ask. (I remember there used to be a "40k rules questions" sub-forum somewhere but it seems to have gone?)

If you have a custom paint scheme (e.g. orange) for space marines, could you say they are "orange" Dark Angels and then use a name character like Azrael?

On page 74 of the Dark Angels codex it is talking about using successor chapters and replacing the <Dark Angels> keyword with the keyword for your successor chapter e.g. <Angels of Absolution>.
Regarding named characters it mentions:

"Note, however, that you cannot do this for named characters - for example, Azrael is the Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels chapter, and not any successor chapter"

Just wondering is the purpose of this rule to just avoid you having a Dark Angels named character in the same detachment as a named character from an official successor chapter.

(e.g. like having Dante (Blood Angels) and Gabriel Seth (Flesh Tearers) in the same detachment, which I assume wouldn't be legal?)

But if you just had Azrael and no other named characters in your detachment would it be ok to have a custom paint scheme for them?

I.e. could you have a "counts as" Dark Angels army?

Just wanted to get an idea if this would be legal / allowed at a tournament / would this be a douche thing to do etc.


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1stLegion
post Aug 15 2018, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE(dvaston @ Aug 15 2018, 01:10 PM) *

Not sure if this is the right place to ask. (I remember there used to be a "40k rules questions" sub-forum somewhere but it seems to have gone?)

If you have a custom paint scheme (e.g. orange) for space marines, could you say they are "orange" Dark Angels and then use a name character like Azrael?

On page 74 of the Dark Angels codex it is talking about using successor chapters and replacing the <Dark Angels> keyword with the keyword for your successor chapter e.g. <Angels of Absolution>.
Regarding named characters it mentions:

"Note, however, that you cannot do this for named characters - for example, Azrael is the Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels chapter, and not any successor chapter"

Just wondering is the purpose of this rule to just avoid you having a Dark Angels named character in the same detachment as a named character from an official successor chapter.

(e.g. like having Dante (Blood Angels) and Gabriel Seth (Flesh Tearers) in the same detachment, which I assume wouldn't be legal?)

But if you just had Azrael and no other named characters in your detachment would it be ok to have a custom paint scheme for them?

I.e. could you have a "counts as" Dark Angels army?

Just wanted to get an idea if this would be legal / allowed at a tournament / would this be a douche thing to do etc.


Yeah the Rules forum got merged with this one, so you're in the right spot.

Its all a Keyword problem, just call them <Dark Angels> on paper, make sure your opponent is aware of what they are & IMO it really shouldn't matter (Its a rule designed to stop something that I don't really think was a problem...oh no someone painted their Ultras yellow or green its confusing? to who I don't know really [that is why we have army lists])

Call them The Angels of Super Awesomeness in your mind & paint them purple & as you say 'count as' <Dark Angels> on paper, I really can't see the drama, but who knows...

armata_PDT_34.gif

This post has been edited by 1stLegion: Aug 15 2018, 02:00 PM


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Blackhearts Reaver
post Aug 15 2018, 06:45 PM
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characters can be included in the same detachment if they have they have a keyword (Astartes). Imperium is no longer enough >>> Chapter approved ruling for Matched Play)

If they are an "off" character to your chapter they will just not get the chapter benefits.

you can get them there own chapter benefits by just adding Detachments together. Eg a Battalion of Raven guard and then an (off chapter) character + the unit or two you want the buff for in a smaller add-on (like a patrol/ vanguard/ etc) Gets you some more Cp's and a specific buff to a unit or two from another chapter. (opponents might be a bit miffed if you try that sort of thing and they all have same paint scheme....).

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Aug 15 2018, 06:47 PM


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Tom
post Aug 16 2018, 11:19 AM
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If anyone has a go at you, just say your dark angels fell into a vat of orange paint

If you're using the right Keywords it's fine. So having Azrael lead an orange <Dark Angels> detachment is fine, but you couldn't have Azrael leading an orange <Ultramarines> detachment

(technically you could, but you'd lose the <chapter> benefits for all the units in the detachment and wouldn't get access to their stratagems so it's not usually worth it)

This post has been edited by Tom: Aug 16 2018, 11:20 AM
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dvaston
post Aug 16 2018, 12:20 PM
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Thanks guys, that clears things up. smile.gif

I would just be taking a simple detachment with "counts as" Dark Angels only. Not trying to do any shenanigans mixing different chapter units into the same detachment.


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Burger
post Aug 16 2018, 03:14 PM
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From a rules point of view, if you play the army from the correct codex and use the correct keywords you are fine.

From a fluff point of view, this is my chapter master Bob. Bob is as awesome as (named character) and uses the rules as such . Here is a short story of fan fiction I wrote.

I would play against this in a heartbeat.


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Kingnova3000
post Aug 17 2018, 07:46 AM
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In short asshats will complain. Don't play against asshats.

I got into a massive debate with a mate about this. From his perspective, reskinning aka counts as'ing a chapter from being X to Y, is pure evil and you should never create your own lore. It's a narrow perspective on the hobby which just made my brain melt.


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Mousemuffins
post Aug 17 2018, 10:37 AM
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I think the only time I have a problem with this is when, for example, obvious dark angel ravenwing army is fielded as White scars (because they happen to be slightly better this month). Or the Ultramarines that are suddenly spacewolves 'cos reasons. And this would only bother me in a tournament I guess.
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dvaston
post Aug 17 2018, 01:08 PM
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Thanks guys, yeah I suppose it comes down to a discussion before the game / check with the TO beforehand etc.
Normally having your own "successor chapter" is fine, but the wording of the named characters section had thrown me off.

I just keep changing my mind with my army lists and want to try different things.
My marines were originally painted red and I used them as blood angels (but didn't have any chapter markings etc) then I played them as dark angels for a while, then I stripped the paint off them, then briefly played them as (unpainted) white scars, and now trying to actually finish them properly with a custom paint scheme (which will be different from all the official chapter color schemes).
I have tried to use magnets on a lot of units - even the arms on my scouts - just in case I want to try a different loadout.

Building and painting takes me a long time, so just want to avoid spending ages re-painting a bunch of minis if I want to switchover codexes and try out new strategies etc.

This post has been edited by dvaston: Aug 17 2018, 01:09 PM


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Blackhearts Reaver
post Aug 18 2018, 11:09 PM
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its the reason I never paint any of my armies a recognisable colour scheme.


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Run local tourneys, Make terrain. 75,000+ pts...Play 1-3 games a week...(40K,BFG,BB,FoW).
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AUS ranking=briefly No.1. :) ATC2011=QLD team ChampionsATC2012=QLD 5th
Retired from Competitive play sometime early? 2013

Try to be positive and help... not negative and tear things down.

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Mono
post Jan 16 2019, 03:18 PM
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they are dark angels currently using orange desert camo scheme


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Paulochromis
post May 20 2019, 02:20 PM
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I love the Ultramarines paint scheme (its what pulled into the shop many, many years ago).
I enjoyed the Ultramarines novels and some of the characters depicted therein.
I don't like the Ultramarines character traits as described in C:SM.

My back story has the UM 8th Co going off to counter a perceived Tyranid invasion.
Things go poorly and both Tigurius and Cassius are mortally wounded.
Brother Varro is a Librarian dread, and Brother Ortan is a Chaplain dread.
Since C:BA is the only way to field them both, I field my blue/grey marines as Blood Angels.

I subscribe to the school of thought that "anyone-who-would-refuse-to-play-me-for-paint-selection-reasons-is-not-worth-playing".

Edit: spelling

This post has been edited by Paulochromis: May 20 2019, 02:21 PM
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Emperor Fooble
post May 24 2019, 12:15 AM
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I doubt you will run into any issues. For the last 20 years people have been chapter swapping marines from game to game.

It can be a little 'on the nose' if it's blatantly because X codex rules are better than Y codex.

And this sort of thing is well and truly entrenched in the fluff of the game. Every chapter has dozens, or in the case of the founding chapters, thousands of successor chapters that follow the same doctrines but with their own slight differences and colourings.

I remember when the back of the SM codex was filled with pages of rules that could be used to make and truly define your own home brew chapter.


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BearPowers
post May 24 2019, 03:53 PM
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Chapter traits were great. Was that 4th edition? It was a shame that they were a bit uneven in quality.

QUOTE
My back story has the UM 8th Co going off to counter a perceived Tyranid invasion.
Things go poorly and both Tigurius and Cassius are mortally wounded.
Brother Varro is a Librarian dread, and Brother Ortan is a Chaplain dread.
Since C:BA is the only way to field them both, I field my blue/grey marines as Blood Angels.


I love this background. So much fun!
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Paulochromis
post May 24 2019, 07:39 PM
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Thanks guys!
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