The list of the reports for easy access:
Great report thanks mate. You hit the nail on the head when you talk about being able to take anything in your army and still being competitive. Thats what I am loving about this game. Thanks again.
Sorry for late reply and many thanks! I am very happy you liked my first KoW report. As I said I hope I will be able to provide them in more or less regular intervals. I will do my best to improve my skills as fast as possible so that the games are even more interesting to read about!
Great report, I missed it before so lucky it was bumped.
I really enjoyed the report too. I read it so late one night that I forgot to reply. I can't wait to read some more. Definitely one of the best KoW reports I've read . Kingdom of Dust are a faction I'm really tempted to get into but I need to complete my dwarf army first
Just finished reading your other KoW articles too, really interesting analysis of what you want to achieve and how you are trying to achieve it. It will be interesting to watch your further progress
Fantastic as usual
How are you finding the lack of magic? Particularly after so many games with versatility of a loremaster.
Thanks a lot guys!
Cheers! Hopefully the next bump will be with new contents I am curious myself where this journey is going to lead me!
Never too late to leave the comment! I am glad you liked the report, writing a few for WHFB helped for sure!
EoD is very interesting army, I think they capture that Tomb Kings theme very well.
@ Curse of Araby
Thanks! I try to do my best.
Magic definitely works so different. I don't mind having fewer spells that work in more subtle way. However, what takes time to get used to is that you cannot cast more than one spell per phase. So it means I would need to take more wizards if I wanted to do it. Which is actually tempting because it provides more options, either to increase the chance of casting the same spell or having better variety.
In general, I try to approach KoW as a new system and avoid comparisons. It deserves to be treated as a game on its own. I think that way I can learn it faster and don't limit myself with the previous experiences from WHFB. Although I would like to think I can also use these in a new game to be a better player
I have a new report for you! I got crushed this time but hopefully the report is still entertaining. I added quite a lengthy text to understand what I did wrong so maybe my following games will be better
The report from my 3rd ever game in KoW is here:
Any comments and feedback are welcome! I hope you will like it.
Another great report!
It was interesting to see how hesitant your opponent was to commit the giant even when he coukd have double charged in t5. 7nteresting tactics
Thanks for taking the time to detail the battle
The gore riders should be embarrassed , they pussy footed around too much early on.
Nice report Swordie- Looked like wavering those Skulks early really messed up the Orcs movement. Seemed it was a rather slow advance on the right flank for the orcs which also didnt help
Look forward to the next report - too bad you played a noob in it
Thanks for feedback, very much appreciated!
I was surprised too! After not so nice experience with Bone Giants I find any kind of big fellas very dangerous. They are tough, reasonably fast, don't care about the terrain and can handle many things alone. Not sure why he was so reluctant.
@ Keef Von Keith
My opponent said that I was the one who was too shy because according to him I had the advantage on that flank and should have pushed harder
I am still learning how to move myself but I have already learned that sometimes "Waver" result is worse than "Routed". In this case he could not charge anyway but if he wanted to move through he had to get into my charge range. Not to mention that Skullkers would have been great as living shield.
I intend to start making diagrams for the next report today so hopefully I will have it all ready soon. And don't worry, I am a noob too
Here is the report from the most recent game against our own Darth Sabre and his Basileans:
Another enjoyable read, thanks!
Great report Swordie - showed where I went wrong.
I think my first mistake was letting you go first - If I had went first I could have controlled your left flank better.
Secondly I should not have given you the gap for the Drakon Riders - your shooting was going surprisingly well so I thought I needed to advance when in reality I could have advanced as a line and prevented the flank & rear charges.
Things I leant;
1. Movement is key - need to get out of the old WHFB mindset - not being able to wheel multiple times will take some getting used to.
2. Fixed charge distances are hard to deal with when you are against a superior movement army.
3. Shooting with 5+ to hit is abysmal - elf shooting at 4+, especially with the BT's was a killer.
4. Individual characters are hard to deal with when you cant get to them - not sure how to deal with that atm.
5. I think a KoW army needs multiple threats to make your opponent think really hard about deployment - we played the basic kill scenario - with the other scenario's deployment and movement will have greater influence.
As it was my first game I got confused with movement and rules so hopefully I can only get better... well lest hope
Thanks for the game - already plotting my revenge
Thanks a lot for comments! I am glad you liked the report!
Lot's of great observations! Let me address them too
1. Movement - I am still learning as well but it indeed is the key. With such a huge benefit to flank/rear attacks it is crucial that you can engineer such situations where your units have the opportunities like that.
At first, it looked to me as if KoW are slow. You can move far but cannot pivot. Even with Nimble a single pivot is not enough and if you are not careful you may need two turns even with the fastest units to get where you want.
In general, what helps me is simply thinking about KoW as it's own set of rules and stop comparing. I do like the fact you can move through your own units too as that may be a little surprising at the beginning. For example, it is easy to think the unit is blocked/protected and then they get their path cleared and can charge.
I am sure that will get smoother with practice.
2. Fixed charge distance - my initial observation is that is like in chess, you know already what pieces can do so you can (and often need to) offer exchanges. Please, note that before I did that I moved at a very slow pace because you could simply pull back out of charge range. And that allowed you to slow down a stronger flank with two elements where I had four of them there.
Another thing is that you need counter chargers ready. Even if you destroy the enemy you are not moving forward much (d6 overrun is not always enough to avoid the enemy). So if you are slower just make sure that whatever charges in gets hit back. I think charging first might not be as huge advantage as it seems if you have enough support because it is harder to initiate the attack from few directions. While the situation where the enemy bounces back allows you to get at him with more units of yours.
3. Shooting - 5+ shooting is tough but i guess that is also a reason to have more small shooting units than one big. Even 4+ is not that great sometimes (although I must say Elite helps) and while I did some considerable damage with my shooters, I still claimed only single troop with them alone! I guess psychological effect was good though
I also think it is important to have some, just check what is available. For example, having something like breath weapon might be good and is often recommended as a good tool against fliers.
4. Individuals - yes, it is easier for them to hide and avoid being attacked but I think you had your own fliers there to try and hunt them down. Maybe even flier with breath attack?
Btw, why was it important to hunt them down? I understand that source of inspire might be one reason but what else?
5. Army Lists/Scenarios - I certainly hope the scenarios play significant role and I am curious what I will think about my own army when I try them. I agree about multiple threats and that is why I try to have some version of combined arms with my list too. It also looks better I think
I am sure you will get way better and I am very happy to know that you are already plotting the revenge! Looking forward to our re-match!
I have just updated the blog with a new report:
Thanks for reading!
The new report is ready!
Thanks for reading!
I really appreciate that and I am glad you enjoyed them!
I hope I will be able to provide a steady stream of reports and that eventually I will also be able to play some real games. Nothing spices up the report as cool pictures of nicely painted miniatures and great table full of beautiful terrain!
A new report, this time against Forces of Abyss:
As always, we welcome any feedback and comments!
I really enjoyed reading your latest report Swordmaster. You made short work of those abyssals. Do you plan on including any allies in the near future? Are you finding any weaknesses in your lost that could be covered by allies?
Thanks a lot! I am glad you enjoyed it! I just hope my opponent will come back with vengeance and we will have a rematch soon
I don't plan on including allies due to following reasons:
- I have only Elves and while it is not a problem to get more miniatures I am still painting the ones I have!
- It is still early, I haven't played scenarios yet so in order to see if I really need help from other departments I need to play more. So far I am pretty happy with what I have and I like to think I am getting used to what these units can do.
- Somehow I feel like Elves would not take allies anyway, they probably think they are the best
You should really give the scenarios a try. Not just for the extra level of tactics they add, I just feel it would make a fascinating read on your blog due to the depth and analysis you go into post game. The turn by turn diagrams would allow you to look back and determine whether scenario was the right play or whether you should have gone for the kill etc.
Either way keep up the great work. See if you can find a dwarf or herd player to flog you so that I can have a read and improve my own game
As always brilliant reports mate!!
Thanks for the kind words!
Definitely! The main reason why I haven't played the scenarios yet is that I had only a few games and I needed to learn the basics first. All my opponents with the exception of Gatti, who commanded Orcs in game 3, are new to KoW too.
But I will definitely start playing with the scenarios! There is no doubt they spice up things nicely.
Ha, with Dwarves of any kind I might be on the receiving end of that horrible shooting But I would love to try as I hope they are not as static as in "the other game"!
Cheers, mate! Doing my best!
Here is a report from a very blood re-match against Forces of Abyss in the Dominate! scenario.
Thanks for the reports. I'm still trying to get m head around the rules and separate them from WHFB :-)
It takes a little time to do so, I am not sure if I have already switched to KoW properly. I guess the only solution is to keep playing KoW
Another report for you, this time against mighty Salamanders:
Round 3 of the series against Forces of Abyss in the Loot scenario:
I had another game against our own Darth Sabre and his Basileans:
I got lucky again while Darth is still puzzled how to make Basileans work. He is currently thinking abut including some Elven contingent as allies to replace his Crossbowmen and add proper shooting. Feel free to post your suggestions either here or better still in his topic:
Thanks in advance!
Reading this battle report really makes me want to play some KoW right now....
While many of you are enjoying CanCon I was writing the most recent report, the very first in 2016 and after a bit of a break:
Just finished a new report for you!
Thanks for reading!
Great stuff, really enjoying your foray into KoW thank you kindly!
Been loving your battle reports for a while now. Thanks for taking the time to make such great quality reports. I love them.
Two thumbs up!
@Grumnir & Skarsgard
Thanks a lot for your kind words! It is greatly appreciated as any positive feedback is a huge motivation boost! I do hope I will be able to provide these reports on regular basis as 2016 shapes up to be full of real life challenges.
After quite a long break I have a new report for you:
Such great write ups (and maps) again. Thanks for taking the time!
Thanks, Dru! I am glad you liked it!
I've never read one of your battle reports before Swordmaster. I read this one and it was very good, entertaining and I really liked reading your thoughts on what went right/wrong and also general thoughts on the Dwarf units prior to the game. Well done! I'll be doing some back reading of other KoW reports
Awesome report and a great blog. Keep it up
Thanks a lot!
I am very happy to know the style appeals to you. I try to do this before/after talk mainly to better organize my own thoughts about the enemy and then to learn as much as possible from my own games. It is great to know these parts are also of a value to the readers.
I hope you will like the rest of the reports too!
Thanks! It is always great to know the blog and reports are entertaining. Please, let me know if you have any further feedback as I would love to constantly improve the quality of the reports.
I have a new report for you! This time, finally, from the game where I used real miniatures, rolled real dice and took proper pictures
Good report swordmaster; love the dynamic map charts. I was really not expecting a drawn result at the end of that one, I thought you had it in the bag.
Thanks! I like the maps too, they are really worth spending extra time on.
I think I simply forgot during the game how expensive the heroes of the Herd were in this army. That definitely helped to shift the balance. However, if I only moved my Palace Guard troop towards the enemy half of the battle field I would win! It just shows that one should pay more attention to the scenario objectives.
And maybe be smart and calculate the points of the units already sitting in respective halves to know what margin of victory is needed.
It was a good game though and I think it was more interesting to read thanks to that "unexpected" result in the end. I am sure both of us learned quite a lot from this game. Would be interesting to have a re-match at some stage.
A new report for you, this time from the game against Kingdoms of Men with the Brotherhood allies:
I have just posted an introduction to the series of reports I plan to write from the most recent event, Kings of Dave 4:
Once again, many thanks to Dave and the crew of 3d6 for organizing the event! The reports will follow , hopefully shortly!
Interested to hear your thoughts about the "meta" you encounted at the tourney compared to UB life. Was there any key points that stood out to you besides perhaps people using more characters than you (as you mentioned in your intro report)?
I must admit I didn't have much time to have a look at all the armies unfortunately. There were 12 of us total, so not big crowd but my plan to check the armies and take some photos failed.
In general, I had a few impressions based on the games I had and a few things I spotted on the next tables:
1. Fliers were taken rather as Heroes than units.
2. Armies were composed around hordes as main elements.
3. I faced 3+ war engines each game (Empire of Dust had 2 but with 2 Archers hordes as well).
4. Armies didn't have that many elements, in particular considering 2500 size.
I am not sure if that is much different to what people field on UB because you can meet players from all over the world there, who have different approaches to the game.
First report from Kings of Dave 4 is ready!
Many thanks to Rowan for a great game and congratulations for taking 2nd place too!
Interesting, woukd have loved to see another turn.
Thanks, Mango, I am glad you found the report interesting!
Well, I guess I need to make sure to grudge Rowan next time and we will continue
Still reading through these slowly...very enjoyable. Thanks again!
Thanks a lot, Morgrim! Always good to know the reports are enjoyable. I have just started working on report 2 from Kings of Dave 4. Hopefully it will be ready by the end of the week.
Hey Swordmaster, thanks for producing another lovely report. Well thought out pre and post game thoughts, great maps again and succinct and interesting in game reporting; well done!
I appreciate that it would take a reasonable amount of time to write that up after your games, so thanks!
As a newcomer to KoW (WHFB refugee) the large size of that game and relatively short time to get it done (2 hours) is intimidating. I've read others' thoughts on games and I appreciate that KoW plays faster than WHFB but it does look daunting having the first tourney you attend being a 'big game' one like that one. Would you recommend doing that or do you think it would be better to ease into the tourney scene with a 2000 point tourney? Or is it a personal thing for you, do you take longer than two hours to finish a 2000 point game also?
I did actually look at trying to get along to this tourney using my old Empire army just to get going with KoW however I had family fly down from Brisbane for the weekend so was out. Next time.
Thanks a lot for kind words! It is very encouraging to keep posting these reports. I like writing them but it definitely motivates me to do more when I know I am going in the right direction and that the reports are entertaining.
I was really impressed by how fast other players managed to play their games. My impression was that it was the combination of experience (some of them have already played a lot) and the their armies didn't have that many elements to use in each phase of the game. Fewer units and the army that puts its strength in either melee or shooting meant the game was faster.
Of course it is not a rule but simply my impression from the tournament and what I managed to observe by quick glimpse to the tables next to mine.
I would still go for a "big" event like that because you simply learn by doing. In addition, you play 3-4 games in one day, something that for me is hard to achieve otherwise. Simply tell your opponent that you will do your best to be quick enough but make him aware you are not yet proficient at this game, so things may get slower.
I am not that fast at this moment but I do remember it was very similar with WHFB when I started playing with MSU style. At the beginning I was struggling to finish my games in time at the events. But with practice I got fast enough to do so. I actually plan to pace myself for that purpose in casual games too.
My personal preference of 2000 points stems from a bit different reason though. The thing is that both games are played on the same size of a table. Because of that you naturally have less space to maneuver and I think that takes away from the experience of the game. I'd rather have smaller games (but not too small!) and more space to maneuver to make the battles more interesting.
At the same time people need to make more difficult decisions as to what to include in their armies and the games should be even faster.
In any case, I would always recommend to participate in any event Dave organizes. I missed the previous tournaments due to real life so I was very happy I made to this one.
The report from Game 2 of Kings of Dave 4 is ready:
Many thanks to Luke for a great game!
Great read as always mate , it's different reading KOW reports of yours insted of warhammer.
When the other Adam gets back we should all catch up again would be good
Thanks! Indeed, the reports feel different but I like creating them even more now!
I hoped to catch up with you during the tournament as I saw your name on the list but it seems something made you change the plans. I will be very happy to do so anytime, could be as well when AdamR is back to Canberra
The report from the game 3 of Kings of Dave 4 is ready :
Many thanks to Tony for a great game!
woot - off for a read!
The level of detail that goes into these blows me away
I hope it's a good thing?
I have just finished the report from the last game of the tournament:
Just read games 2, 3 and 4; thanks very much for posting up the reports, a very enjoyable read!
Good job in games 2 and 3; that elven speed and maneuverability seems to really pay off alot in KoW where hitting a single enemy unit all at once can be so important.
Game 4 looked very tough and sounded frustrating. It looked like a super tough army to deal with and being brand new to KoW I'm not sure what I would suggest to tackle it. Having over 1100 points tied up in characters that are either hard as nails or a small and hard to shoot, and all are super maneuverable, will be tough for any army to take down I think. Seeing armies like that on paper makes me worry a little that I'm not optimising my Night Stalker army and putting in the best units (should I be getting two Mind Screeches!?); but I guess they're not the norm.
I do wonder if others see that list and based on their experience and their own lists see it as an easy army to face? And what is used to counter it?
The time and effort you put into your reports is great. Thank you!
A reason I prefer 2000 over 2500, is the big gribblies seem to come out with those extra points, without the penalty of lack of units on the table to do scenarios. The trade-off penalty is mitigated.
The CoK rules pack, if it gets adopted more broadly, will also help: tactics become available to help reduce the impact of flyers - you can charge something into one and disorder it while units get into position to hit it the following turn, instead of it flying away. However, your opponent did seem to wait until you committed until sending his big-bads into your rear, so may not help much here.
The big gribblies are always there even at 2000. No penalty for taking them cause they can claim.
I like playing against the tough lists especially against solid players like Tim, get better quickly that way
Thanks for the comments!
Thanks! I am glad you like the reports! Hopefully, they will also convince you to try and build 2.5k army for the next event in Canberra
I was definitely happy with how I played in games 2 and 3. Not only because I won in the end but also because I didn't hesitate too much and managed to speed up the game enough to play all 6 turns in game 3 too. That was a good thing about game 4 as well. Of course my opponents were much faster still and I hope I will be as efficient as them soon.
Game 4 was a challenge for sure but I was mainly upset due to my poor decisions. It often happens that you know you made a mistake soon after you made it but it is already too late to avoid the consequences. For me it all started with the poor deployment. Sometimes I can still make up for it but in this game it came from bad to worse.
I still learned a lot from this game and while I don't have the solutions to certain problems I may face with similar armies, I should do better next time.
This game seems to show what people tend to claim on forums, that in order to win in KOW you need to be prepared to deal with big fliers and tough individuals in addition to whatever the army is. The challenge for me this time was also because dragons, individuals and artillery were all present at the same time in significant numbers. Hence whatever tactics you want to adapt it has to deal with all these problem in parallel.
In general, regardless of the army you face and the challenge it poses, you have 2 approaches to deal with it. First is to adapt the army of your own. Second is to adapt your tactics.
Since you are in the process of building a new army it may be a good idea to consider what to paint next from the point of view of the things you may need to deal with in your games. Personally, I prefer to adapt my tactics as what is a problem today it may not be a problem soon, when you learn how to deal with it. But in the process you are getting better with the same army. While changing and adding new elements also requires some time to get use to them.
Having said that I will probably need to tweak my 2.5k army version as it was my first tournament and I added some units mainly because I had miniatures for them. It was to test them and now I think I will need to make a few changes to feel the army better.
I would love to hear what other players also have to say in terms of countering similar armies
Thanks! I hope it is worth waiting for because I cannot make them during a single evening.
I generally agree, at 2000 you need to make some hard decisions about what to take. At 2500 it seems you can have it all. Which is probably why it is so attractive to people.
I would not look for a solution to tournament packs just yet. First, CoK may come as a standard but does not have to. Second, if I learn how to deal with similar armies now then I will be even in a better position later.
As always I am positive there will be a solution for me to find to that particular challenge, I just hope to find it sooner than later. Making less (or none!) mistakes on my own part should be a good place to start
I don't expect armies at 2000 to be easier to deal with. They have their own problems. And I don't expect that at 2000 points I am not going to face 2+ big fliers of various form either. I wonder though, what would be the 2000 version of AD army I faced in game 4.
Playing against better players is always beneficial. That is why I hope to attend tournaments as well. Better chance to learn from the games during a single day!
I will follow up with the tournament summary soon.
Here is a summary of my first KoW tournament experiences:
Once again, thanks to Dave and 3D6 crew for organizing the event!
A new report from the game against a gorgeously painted army by @HaggisMacbeth:
Thanks again for a fantastic game and I hope we will have a re-match soon!
Haha thanks for the battle and the write up of course! It was an excellent introduction into KoW and leaves me hungry for more! Thanks for answering all my questions throughout the game and also pulling me up when I was trying to do too many pivots with my Planar Apparition when I was moving him at the double. Being a first game I don't want to fall into any bad habits/accidents/not following the rules! like that; so thanks
It is interesting reading your thoughts on the strengths and weaknesses of the Night Stalker units and that in itself, in addition to getting games in, will help me to form my own games better as well. One thing I noticed in particular from our game was that I was quite keen to use Troops of Spectres to use the limited amount of miniatures I have to unlock more shots for the army. For the game I had to take Regiments to be able to unlock monsters and characters to get enough points, but I think it may have been for the best anyway.
Not having played KoW I didn't realise that Nerve 17 on the Regiments is quite good. A Troop is only Nerve 13 and you demonstrated on your turn one how easy it was to rout the Needle Fangs which are Nerve 12. The Spectres proved to be quite resistant due to 1. being Stealthy they were dodging some damage, 2. The Blood Worms were soaking up some of that bow fire as you clearly wanted to stack some damage on them early and 3. The Nerve 17 kept them hanging in there. I think I'll do more games with Regiments before trying the Troops.
Your point about the combined attack of the Shadow Hulk, Planar Apparition and Needle Fangs on the Tallspears is very valid. I guess some of that is my inexperience with KoW and not really knowing how much is needed to break through a unit and when something is overkill! Same as you said for the Bloodworms going after the Stormwind. I think some of that is all my years of playing Empire in WHFB and always thinking 'focus fire, focus fire, focus fire'. Keep hitting something until it is down and then move onto the next threat rather than spreading your resources too thin. In this situation I think you're right, I probably should have looked at the numbers and realised that the Dread Fiend even if he didn't rout the Stormwind the next turn, another Waver was highly likely on the cards and the worms should have swung towards the elf infantry. Next time!
Just in regards to my own post game thoughts on my army list; I used the same army the following day against @Belak with a heavily combat orientated army. The one part of the list that I felt was lackluster, for the points cost at least, was the Banshee. 165 points essentially for that breath weapon was quite expensive. She was virtually immune from harm being Individual, Stealthy and also being able to Fly and slot into gaps between line of sight arcs, but her damage output was not huge. I think a better investment would be a Shade with the Quicksilver Rapier. Also has fly but has CS1 and 5 attacks. He would have been able to drop the bolt throwers in a single turn rather than two and may have had better luck in assassinating the wizard in the end which the Banshee attempted to no avail (as she did against @Belaks Necromancer). He also costs less points. I'll be painting one up in the next couple of days and will be keen to see how it goes.
p.s. The roll to rout the Planar Apparition on Outcasts turn three was a five or more to rout him. You routed it but thanks to Mindthirst and the re-roll he hung around
Thanks a lot for the feedback!
Many thanks for your initial report and for more comments based on mine. It is an ideal situation for a battle reporter to have the same story told from the point of view of both commanders. In your case it is also literally opposite point of view as you were taking pictures from your end of the table. Perfect!
I am still learning this game so I was happy to help on one hand and use it as an opportunity to remind myself about the rules on the other. It is good to know we both benefited from that!
I would not fall into the trap of limiting yourself by saying "regiments are always better" or such. It all depends in my opinion. Just keep playing with what you think would suit you better and then see if you are happy with what you choose. If you think that regiments would suit you well at this stage then by all means go for it but don't forget about the troops in the longer run, you may never know
There is absolutely nothing in following the principle you have about hitting the enemy units with focused attacks until it is gone. After all, you won the game so your plan worked just fine. My suggestions were more for discussion of the other possibilities. And to try and prepare for them too!
In terms of what to choose, Banshee or Shade, I cannot say yet. In principle, however, I would again apply the approach that you need to play with both and see which one suits you better. Both have their uses, I am sure. What seems to be the problem here is that you want to evaluate the usefulness of the element by comparing how much damage it can do. But is just one part of it and not always the one most useful.
I understand that at this moment, at least until the tournament in Sydney, you need to make a few important decisions. Time is running out and you need to focus on painting the units your are going to take to the event. In such situation I would go with the following:
1. Use what you have already and keep painting units that will add to existing force.
2. Focus on coming up with ideas on how to use what you have.
After the event you will have some really nice experience to see what worked for you. And with a bit more relaxed schedule you would be able to add more units that eventually would give you more choice than you need for 2000 army, for example.
So, how is the painting going? What is on the painting desk now?
You made an excellent point! I was very intrigued by that wind blast and its effect on my units but unfortunately it didn't come to play. This is also what I tried to emphasize with a comment about the fact that the value of the unit does not need to be assessed based on the sheer damage it can do. Great to know you think the same.
The way you described things that wind blast can do makes me want to have this spell in my army!
Here is the new report against Mr. Devean and his Samurai Tengu themed army (Kingdoms of Men + Forces of Basilea Allies)
I hope you like it!
Excellent read. Thank you.
Thanks a lot! I am glad you liked it!
Thanks for posting, I'm particularly interested in this report as I'm trying to put together a KoM army with Elohi allies myself!
I think it was a very good example how to do it. What is more, that allied contingent not only added to the army from the point of view of tactical possibilities but also to the look/theme of it. I like it much better than Ogre shooters for example.
It took me a while but here is a most recent report against our own DarthSabre
Many thanks to DarthSabre for the game!
Great report, which I read with relish!
Had a good crack with my Elves but with no real battle plans I faded pretty quickly. Reading up on what you are doing here really helps give me some ideas about what to do, so thanks!
Thanks a lot for comments! Very much appreciated!
@ Red Dragon
Surely you mean what not to do But I am glad you enjoy the reading and that that the reports give you the ideas!
That sounds like a proper medieval knights army! I would love to see that in action!
Thanks for spotting the mistake, I will pass it to Darth so that he can correct it in the list.
Do you have any pictures of your army somewhere? Somehow I am interested in these Polish Lancers in particular
Thanks for posting the pictures! That is truly unique way of crating an army and the first time I see Napoleonic miniatures merged into fantasy army.
The most recent report from the game against Kingdom of Men led by @Darth Sabre:
Congratulations to @Darth Sabre for well deserved victory!
Thanks for the write up. Great read as always.
Thanks! I am always trying my best no matter what the result. I am glad the report was a good read!
Men - those models are awesome. Can I ask where the lions come from?
Aren't they from High Elf Lion Chariot set?
It's been a while but finally, there is a new report for you:
Thanks for reading!
Great report. Thanks Pawel. Always like reading about your list because I could never bring myself to use a list like it! Haha
Thanks, Matt! I am always happy to know the reports are a good read.
I like my list! I hope I will eventually learn how to use it well
The best scenario is when every army is unique and mainly reflects the style of particular player. The more variety the better!
I was very happy with the result this game but my comment about using the army well was more general. My goal is to play well and play fast enough to finish in time with this army. One day!
Would be keen to hear you elaborate your thoughts on the Trident Realms having played against them.
I will be able to say if I can participate closer to the date. I would love to attend but at this stage I cannot yet confirm. Hopefully I will be there!
Thanks a lot! I am glad you enjoyed the report. Before I address your comment, let me quote the feedback I have just received from Ed, my opponent, about our game.
Thanks Swordmaster, that's some interesting reading. Appreciate you putting in the time.
Thanks marius! I am always happy to discuss all things Kings of War
Here is the report from the game against @UltraSalem and his Undead:
Many thanks to Chris for a great game! And congratulations on the victory!
The report from the most recent game against Forces of Nature is ready:
Thanks for reading!
Thanks for the write up Swordmaster. Very cool to see all the different lists the elves take on :-)
I am quite lucky to have opponents with many armies. I just hope the reports will not get boring because I am using the same force.
I am curious about your ideas so please, let me know! Thanks in advance!
I like your battle reps. They are so damn pretty. Im not a fan of youtube battle reps, and yours is one of the best to read. Keep it up and well done and thanks for all the effort.
Well - to take your army: (I've cut and paste it around so it is more readable)
- 10 Stormwind, Regiment, Wine of Elvenkind (Nimble) - 255
- 5 Stormwind, Troops, Brew of Haste (+1 Speed) - 155
- 5 Silverbreeze, Troop - 145
- 5 Silverbreeze, Troop - 145
- 3 Drakon Riders, Regiment, Dwarven Ale (Headstrong) - 185
- 10 Palace Guard, Troop - 105
- 20 Palace Guard, Regiment - 150
- Bolt Thrower, War Engine - 90
- Bolt Thrower, War Engine - 90
- 20 Sea Guard, Regiment - 170
- 20 Sea Guard, Regiment - 170
- Drakon Rider Lord, Hero, Large Cavalry, Mace of Crushing - 165
- Elven Mage, Hero, Inspiring Talisman, Bane Chant(2) - 110
- Army Standard, Hero, Mounted - 65
There are a large number of deployments, certainly a good thing. But there is nothing "scary" about this list. A scary unit is one that "bends" the game, so to speak. In the elf list, scary units are things like the Lord on Dragon, a Regenerating Treeman, A horde Archers with Piercing, A Horde of spears with brew strength, Horde Drakon riders with something, as you notice, there all big, they cost a lot of points, but if your other units look after them, they do untold damage to the enemy, and can't be killed in a turn outside of huge points hitting them.
Your army consists of none of these things. Closest is the Cav regiment. Regiments of infantry (IMO) mean that they are able to be removed in 1 round of combat, and the attack increase from troop to regiment means they can rarely remove an enemy unit in one round of combat.
Now of course it depends on what models you have, and what you like/want, but there is nothing here that worries me, if that makes sense. Half your combat units I would be happy to let them charge me front on - and I'm confident that most of these units I would break n the charge (using my abyssals/Varangur). If I do that, I can reform and ensure you front charge next turn, and then kill that unit as well.
Now a lot of this comes down to style of play as well - I am not saying that my style of play, or army design would work for everyone. But my elf list that I'm working on as a comparison:
Horde Archers - Piercing
Troop Palace Guard
Horde Tallspears - Brew Strength
Horde Tallspears - Potion Catepillar
Regiment Stormwind Cav
2x Dragon Breath
BSB - bow Kaba
Mage, bane chant & Inspiring
Lord on dragon, Ensorcelled armour
I believe comparatively, I'd get more value on this list than yours - and I'd love to see how you would find taking control of some of these units in your list.
Hordes defeat the purpose of an MSU army and Swordie prefers an MSU army as that is what he has played for the last 5 years in WHFB and now KoW.
A horde list would most definitely be stronger but move away from his theme (my opinion and not Swordie's)
I need to catch up on these reports when I get a chance, but I hope he sticks with the MSU approach TBH as it adds more variety. I think it would definitely be harder to master and less scary to look at, but once mastered I can't see why can't be just as competitive, small units in the flank or rear usually do just as much damage as big ones in the front.
All that said I've only faced the regenerating treeman once and hated that thing, just wouldn't die even when surrounded.
If Swordies philosiphy is MSU thats all good - But I'm talking about the list purely from my comment on its effectiveness.
MSU needs to be able to a) punch through a unit or b) get multiple combined charges. I'm not sure that this list can do both, or either, enough to get ahead of the enemy.
Don't get me wrong, its not terrible, but there is nothing to be scared of and shooting off a couple of units early will mean Swordie has no choice but to go front on into units - and get smashed in return - which is exactly what happened in his game against forces of Nature dealing with the elementals.
That game as units got traded, and casualties mounted, he lost units way too quickly. Things could take his units and knock them off in return.
I'll never begrudge anyone playing a theme. But a couple of small changes to Swordies list (combining the sea guard regiments into a horde, things like that) could add a lot more effectiveness IMO. If he wants to do so.
Thanks a lot for all the comments! And apologies for replying with some delay. I will address each of them in the order they were posted.
Thanks a lot! I really appreciate your kind words. It does take a bit to prepare them so knowing they are enjoyable is always a motivation for me to write them!
I know different people like different formats so I am just glad I can add to the variety.
First of all thanks a lot for taking time and elaborating on your ideas. I really appreciate that and I am glad we are having a nice discussion about different options. Always a great thing to have!
I would like to start with a bit of explanation of a more general context or approach to a wargame.
I remember someone wrote a few years ago that to win the game you need: A (army list) + B (player's skill) + C (luck). This approach suggests that each component is independent of each other and if you can have the best list and the best player then he should be winning his games.
Even in the form of this simplified definition (as it does not take into account other factors such as terrain or scenario directly, for example) I cannot agree with it. I think that the overall success is more complex function where army list and player's skill in particular depend on each other. In other words, the player creates the army list and the same army list is not going to work for different players.
That's the general context. My personal approach is obviously MSU style. It means I would like to have more units on the table but it is not only about it. This style, in principle, relies on maneuvering to engineer favorable combats where I can overwhelm even big unit with a few of my own.
You mentioned that you don't see anything scary in the army. That's true. But does it have to be? Because that is also the aim of MSU style that there is no single target that is significantly bigger/more expensive/more dangerous etc. than other elements.
It is definitely true that my units don't have staying power. Some of them may have a chance to hold for on turn but not to all the potential foes out there (btw, which units in your Abyssal/Varangur armies do you have in mind in particular as examples?).
The thing is they are not meant to be.
The units you listed are definitely good. However, KoW is designed in the way that does not allow easy comparison between units. The differences between units of various size, i.e. troop, regiment, horde, are not linear. You simply don't double the parameters when going from smaller to bigger unit.
That makes the game very interesting because it really requires thinking about the units as parts of an army, not in terms of unit to unit comparison. Even the same unit in a different army would bring something different to the table.
Hence I think that unit efficiency or value is a relative term.
My list is far from perfect. I am still trying different options to find what would work for me and learning the game along the way.
But due to the reasons I mentioned before (i.e. army list not being independent factor and its efficiency being a relative term) I don't think that themed army has to be by definition inferior. Because in the end it is the player who wins the game, not the list.
That's why I also disagree with the conclusion about the reason why I lost in my last game. In that battle you had two armies with different sets of strengths and weaknesses. FoN army favors war of attrition, preferably with one-on-one combats in the difficult terrain. Elves had speed and maneuverability on their side and wanted fights with multiple units against one enemy at a time. It was clear that whoever is going to force the enemy to play on his terms is going to win.
I made mistakes, mainly by staying too close to the enemy and allowing these one-on-one combats in the terrain. And that's why I lost. Not because my list was inferior to my opponent's. Hopefully we will have a rematch where I would be able to play better and to demonstrate what could have happened if I played to the strengths of my own army.
Once again, I really appreciate your feedback. You are far more experienced player than I am and when you mention weaknesses from your point of view it is valuable information for me. Thanks to that I will try to play in the way to minimize the impact of these.
I just hope that the fact I don't necessarily agree with some of your conclusions (and I am told to be stubborn as a Dwarf if it comes to army list changes ) does not discourage you from sharing your ideas and observations. I have a lot to learn and discussions like this also help a lot to speed up the process!
Thanks! I used to write very short paragraphs about the army characters so I guess it would be nice to come back to that aspect too. Although what sparked that idea was some spectacular Miscast for my wizards and I just needed a funny explanation for a disaster it usually caused
But double 1's and 6's results for Nerve checks can be good opportunities for similar stories. I will try to add something next time!
Has it been 5 years already? Time files! I only hope there will be another 5 (and more!) with KoW
No rush! They are all there, ready to be read whenever you want!
I really would like to make that MSU approach work in KoW and adding to the variety of the lists is definitely a good reason for me to keep trying.
Hi Swordie - no dramas I like that we can actually have intelligent discussions about this stuff. I am more than happy to say that my way is not the right way - its simply my line of thinking, and without hearing other peoples philosophies my thinking doesn't expand!
I don't disagree with that A+B+C idea - but certainly don't think they all weigh the same amount. I also agree that writing the list, and playing with it are two different components, and that when skill and list building meet in the way the player wants to play the list is when things are the most effective. Essentially, this is the reason why I was adamant that I wanted the Masters to have the army swap in the first round, it makes the players skill even more paramount to determining the overall victor of the event!
Your style is certainly MSU - and I guess my perception would be based on my experience, in that I don't believe I have lost to a MSU army in Kings of war - I suppose I view it as a hang over from WHFB, and see Kings as rewarding massed troop combat, which has been my experience.
I also wouldn't deny that if you can get multiple flank/rear charges, these multuiple small units greatly increase in effectiveness. But I remain skeptical of how often that happens.
We can have different interpretations of your Nature vs Elves game for example, but I'm not sure how many flanks/rears you achieved in that game, and how closely you link that to the end result of that game, if that makes sense. You said that you faught to many one on one fights in the terrain, but I'm not sure how you would have not done that, if that make sense (outside of redeployment, which makes game analysis completely hypothetical).
As for unit comparison, there is clearly a formula Kings use to dictating size of units, rules, points, attacks and so forth. And it is pretty accurate. Its then up to us as a player to determine sweet spots in rations of how many attacks we want to produce, points we want to pay, and nerve to sustain on the battlefield. Its one of the reasons
why working out the effectiveness of a spell like heal, and the value of a model like ht eGreen Lady is so hard to really achieve, as it really revolves then around that rule's interaction with its units.
As for me - in comparing your elf list to mine, my last two armies are below:
Varangur - 2 Hordes Bloodsworn, Horde Fallen (Strength) Regiment Mounted Sons (Pathfinder) Cavern Dweller, mounted mage Bane chant, inspiring) Mounted mage (Fireball, 2 cast item) King on Chimera (Def6+) Skald (dragonbreath).
Abyssals - 3 Regiment Succubi, 2 Hordes Tortured Souls, Chroneas, Efreet (inspiring) Temptress (bane chant) Temptress (bane chant, flying) Harbinger (fly, Lightning 5, Def 6+)
So They are very different styles from yours. The Varangur can take multi-charges from most of your units, and the Abyssals can out-threat and have the shooting edge to drop the smaller units of yours as well. When I say "there is nothing scary" I guess I'm saying it allows me to simply target the "biggest threat at the time" rather than a unit that instead says to me "this unit is the one that must go down now/first" allowing me a much easier time to prioritise as I go.
Now there is no doubt we both make mistakes, and primarily, whoever makes the most/biggest mistake would probably go down, regardless of anything else. In essence B (Player skill) will be a far bigger determinant than A (army list) in this result, unless something really bizzarre happens in C (Luck).
But I would certainly be interested in hearing your thoughts on how you would take the MSU army you have, and apply it to what you would try to do against my two lists above - I'd be highly interested in what you would want to tactically achieve in that game!
Essentially, I have no issue with you have a different conclusion, and am very interested in your perspective on making this MSU style work. But I'd also like to see you play a different style of army, even if it was just so you could then talk about your belief about why one type of build was better/worse/different from the other.
(Plus I like seeing people terrified of the elf archers - which is why I want you to get on board!)
Thanks a lot for another long reply! I hoped to address it during the week but got distracted. I will definitely come back to you but I hope you will forgive me the delay, here is the reason why it happend:
OMG - WTF was that move by the Varangur guy giving the palace guard the flank charge on those Mounted Sons? He re-positioned them to give it to you!
And deploying those units at the back instead of on the line in invade?
Elves got a bit lucky there - but good on you to capitalise on the mistake. That's what this game is about! Its always easier to analyse these things in hindsight, compared to doing it before you start...
Thanks a lot for your patience, I hoped to reply earlier but a few things interfered. The good thing is one of them is the event I attended so you can expect three more battle reports in the near future.
Let me start with the most recent one though. We both made mistakes. In fact, I think mine were worse and (spoiler alert) I will demonstrate in the future reports I am quite capable of making even worse! But it does not mean we are idiots.
My brother tends to be too indecisive and shy with the armies he is using for the first time. The game when he played with Varangur is not an exception. And yes, he has already concluded right after the game his deployment was not good.
Two questions then:
1. What would you do in Varangur turn 2?
2. How would you deploy Varangur army in this battle?
Ok! Let's get back to the topic of army list philosophies and ideas exchanging.
I am well familiar with the concept of A + B + C with the weighted percentage of influence. But I always wonder about this:
How do you measure the weighted percentage? What is the basis for such conclusion? And how do you support the idea that it is, in fact, true that it is still A + B + C?
I don't dispute that you faced MSU armies and defeated them. I would be very interested in reading about such games a lot. But to me it simply means that in those instances you prevailed and the fact you did does not automatically proves MSU cannot be a good approach for the army.
My own experience from Warhammer also support that and it is the main reason why I want to try and develop similar approach for Kings of War. When I started experimenting with this concept in Warhammer a lot of fellow players doubted it would work. And while my goal is not to prove them wrong, I am determined to keep trying to obtain similar successes with Kings of War.
It is due to the fact, among others, that just because something works (i.e. big units in horde formation) it does not mean it is the only solution.
What I have learned so far, however, is that because KoW has unique rules set it also needs a different and unique approach to the concepts that may have the same code name as in other games. I have already noticed that MSU is not a generic concept anymore. It is more in the frame of the same army list and in the context of the armies that people usually field. Because KoW requires particular choices to unlock other elements I cannot build my army around troops. And because of that I will never have more elements in the army than Ratkin or Goblins for example.
You also mentioned that KoW rewards massed troop combat. I don't quite see why this idea (with which I wholly agree with!) means you have to use hordes only. I think it simply means that the game is focused on units. While characters are very important, you still need an army to be successful. What this army has in particular is a matter of personal choice and style but you would still end up having some spectacular combats, involving many units.
As you said, with more but smaller units I would need to look for flank/rear charges. It is thus my goal to be able to engineer them properly. I admit I am not yet good at it but I have already seen that it is possible and how effective it can be. I understand you may be skeptical but what if the reason for that is that majority of your games (just guessing!) are against armies with similar approach to yours?
Besides, MSU army can still attack frontally to achieve the goals. It will be costly but if it means that I can exchange one troop for your regiment/horde then I consider it worthy.
In the game against Forces of Nature it was not about completely avoiding some one on one fights or frontal attacks. It was about the fact that I could not deliver the flanking punch at the right time in coordination with units that were facing the enemy from the front. KoW is the game where tiny details matter a lot and the timing is very important. One turn too late and all plan does not work.
Basically, the result of the game was due to the fact I was not able to coordinate my attacks well while my opponent used my mistakes well and played to the strengths of his army. The mistakes of the commander do not prove that the army he led cannot be successful. In addition, MSU army is less forgiving in such situation and I fully accept that in order to win I need to play much tighter game.
I looked at both of your armies and even made a diagram to visualize them (not a perfect one but better than nothing! )
Both are quite compact, with fewer elements than mine so I would look for opportunities to out deploy you. It is difficult to specify because a lot depends on the scenario and particular terrain set.
I know Varangur are tough. You have 3 very fast and hard hitting elements (King, Sons and Fallen) and 2 slow hordes. I would look for options to divide these two groups. And even with Def5/6 a few damage points here and there will count too. So my shooting, if focused, can help.
Your units can take multiple charges from mine but it is also possible that in the exchange you will eventually lose your more expensive units. I am happy to do so.
I don't understand what do you mean by "out-threatening" my army with Abyssals. Again, very compact army with a large, defensive 6 flier that has ranged attacks too. You have a bit slower units but Tortured Souls can charge further. The shooting is powerful but has shorter range. That is potential advantage to exploit. Succubi are still fragile, even with Stealth. But I would probably focus on the Souls as their defense 4+ is their weakness.
It seems to me that in both cases I need to be patient and use higher range of shooting a bit. At the same time, which is something I am still learning how to do, is to contain large fliers. At least to limit their options.
As I said, it is difficult to be specific without knowledge of the terrain, scenario and having played against both armies two times so far. Not to mention that the lists were different too.
How do you usually deploy them? How would you approach my army?
That is interesting comment you made about "nothing scary". Usually my opponents mention that the fact there is nothing big enough to attract attention makes prioritizing a bit more difficult. You may be using powerful units to destroy something much smaller and not so expensive. Nothing really looks like it is a threat on its own.
I would love to have time to play with different armies, it is a fantastic opportunity to learn about potential enemies better. I understand that you may consider my experience not enough to talk about what is good/bad/better etc. That's fine. I just wanted to add that I never use these adjectives as absolute terms. It is always in the context and in relation to something. Hordes are good for you but not for me, for example.
Once again, just because something works it does not mean it will work for everyone and that it is the only solution. I have a long way to go with MSU in KoW but I don't see the reason why it may not be a viable concept.
As to Elven Archers Horde - I find it boring and one of the reasons why people hate playing against Elves. I would prefer to achieve the situation similar to one of the games I had in Warhammer. I played against Dark Elves at CanCon and after the game the opponent simply said "I don't know how did that happen!".
Great analysis Pawel and fits in nicely to the topic of the week I've posted!
Thanks! I am glad you liked my essay
I was afraid I might have produced the post that is too long so thanks for reading and replying earlier. I really enjoyed the exchange of ideas but I do understand that sometimes forum may not be the best place for such discussion.
If we have the opportunity to continue in more favorable circumstance and with a cold beer in hand, I am in!
I hope that with practice I will get to the point where I could be as successful with my army as you are with yours.
And to answer your question, yes, I enrolled for CanCon and I hope nothing is going to happen in the meantime so that I can attend again.
Well Swordie - lets do it! CanCon Grudge round one, I'll take my "Hordiest" army, you take your "most MSU'est" and the victor gets lunch bought for them!
Give us plenty of time to talk tactics, have a laugh and know that the dice gods will actually decide the outcome.
*All praise the god of dice*
I will do my best to give you a challenging game so that it is not an easy start for you. As I still need to practice playing fast enough in given time I can't promise I will be able to discuss a lot during the game but I am sure we will have plenty of time after.
I am looking forward to our game already so that I can learn from the Champ!
Here is the link to a short introduction to the series of upcoming battle reports from the most recent event at 3D6 in Canberra:
Nice, was hoping the Trident realms would be in there, but I really like the look of that Ogre army.
Would be interested in seeing a list and thoughts if you have the time.
Well, you qualified to Masters, that counts!
Unfortunately, I didn't have a chance to play against Tas. Maybe next time
The first game from the 3d6 October local tournament is up:
Many thank to Mark for a great game!
A nice read first up. Really enjoying the analysis
Thanks marius! I am glad to know you like the reports and the aftermath monologue too!
Always a good read, I really enjoy your reports
Thanks mikecro! I have just finished preparing diagrams for game 2 so I should have the report ready this week, maybe even before the weekend!
I have just finished the report from the game 2 of 3d6 October event:
Many thanks to Tim for a great game!
Cheers Swordie, thought you were under the pump looking at the lists.
Sounds like a great game.
Thanks, marius! The armies my opponents brought were a challenge for mine but it is always about the player. And this time I was lucky to meet great people on the other side of the table
Here is the report from last game of 3d6 October event:
Congratulations to Michael for a well deserved 1st place!
A good read as always. Swordie.
Appreciate the write.
Any changes planned or sticking with the same list. I noticed that you seem to have abandoned the nimble item for the pathfinder one. Was the nimble not performing as well as hoped?
Thanks a lot for kind words! I am glad to know the report was a good read despite quite embarrassing performance on my side
You didn't miss the counter, unfortunately, it was not there It seems we played the scenario wrong and simply divided 3 counters each (it happened we assigned them all to a single unit).
I am sure that would have made the game a different encounter. Not necessarily in terms of end result but having that extra counter in the middle would have been important. Ah, well ... time to prepare scenario cards I think
I am not a huge fan of changing the army list but I am still at the stage where I am not completely convinced the current iteration is what I want to focus on. I want to see if a more radical version would work for me and I will have a chance to check it this Saturday.
I am going to try 2 Storm Wind Troops + 2 Drakon Riders regiments instead of a Storm Wind Regiment, a Storm Wind Troop, a Drakon Rider regiment and a Bolt Thrower. More emphasize on melee and movement and no static shooting.
What do you think?
I forgot to reply to your question. I would love to take Nimble but I run out of the points. I wanted to add second Army Standard and I ended up with only 20 points to spare, so Pathfinder returned.
I would not be an Outcast if I followed fashionable trends, would I?
Thanks for the encouragements, I do hope I am learning from the mistakes!
I hoped to get this report ready on Friday but didn't have enough time so here it is today:
Thanks for reading!
Awesome stuff, two really different and very interesting armies.
Thanks @ marius! You can always bet on that we are going to have bloody battles and different approaches to army composition!
In the meantime I wrote an introduction to the series of reports I am going to prepare in the near future.
You can check the army lists of my opponents and the deployments for each game. I am curious about your predictions!
patience is not an option - there are 24 hours in a day
2 drakons regiments... a horde is a heartbeat a way I say
i liked the 2 drakkon regiments, they threatened me almost as much as a horde did, but they did die a lot easier
Yes, I know that no excuses will be accepted
Nope, I don't even feel a temptation to make a horde
Ha, no wonder you like them better then, easy points!
I thin put the name of the scenario in size 72 font for our game
Predictions are loose the first, win the rest
I will! And the reason for that will be explained in the story!
My apologies for a delay. The report from the game 1 of Kings of Cro-Nation 1:
Many thanks to @ fued for a great game and congratulations for taking the 1st place!
The report from game 2 of Kings of CroNation 1:
Many thanks to Tas for a great game!
love your batreps, i tend to just look at the pictures, and read the summary, but if something unexpected happens ill read the text too
Nice work. Lots of units seem to suit you.
Was glad to see the Trident realms models, the army is looking great.
Hi Swordie, thanks for the game and the writeup. This was a bit of a frustrating game for me (tactics-wise). Turn 1 was where I made my big mistakes, exposing the flank of my Ensnarers and leaving the Knucker exposed. Then my Depth Horrors taking 2 rounds to get through a lone ASB, coupled with those two extremely frustrating waver results in turn 4 spelled the end of me.
My plan was to dominate the left flank (as depicted here), and at least force the draw. I had hoped that my ensnarer horde would have been able to hold ground in the difficult terrain, but taking all those wounds from the drakons in turn 2 meant I couldn't survive your triple charge.
I have a lot of trouble getting my Wyrmriders into play. I'm going to experiment giving them Nimble, see if that helps.
Thanks a lot for comments, as always, greatly appreciated!
Thanks! I am glad you like them! Let me know when something unexpected happens
Cheers! I do feel better with more of them and I was happy to win after first game loss too. Always good to see how things work when they work.
The army of TR is simply fantastic and Tas is doing a great job with the painting!
Sorry to hear you were a bit frustrated but I do understand. Nobody likes making mistakes and closer battles are always better to have. The good thing is you know what you would do differently so I am sure the result in the potential re-match can be easily in your favor.
Nimble on Wyrmrider may help but also leaving a bit of space between them and the unit in front of them should allow to pivot and move away regardless. In our game you had enough space for that but sometimes it is easy to cause a traffic jam with the units that may waver in front and simply block you.
Do you plan further changes to the army after this event? How did other games go? I remember you were victorious in round 3.
Yeap, AS can be a bit annoying little buggers I will try to get to the next reports as soon as possible!
Yes I do plan further changes, looking to add some shooting to my list. Some combination of Nokken, Heartpiercers, and the Leviathan's Bane war engine. Possibly all three. I won my remaining two games for the day, a very close game vs Abyssals and a more comfortable game vs Brotherhood.
It will be very interesting to see these War Engines in action and I am sure you will have excellent choices for the models to represent them!
In other news, I have just finished another report. Game 3 against Matt, fantastic Kings of Cro-Nation and Clash of Kings Australia organizer himself!
Thanks a lot Matt! I hope to play against you soon, if only to have a chance to see your great models again!
Thanks for the comment!
I would like to add that I am absolutely happy I managed to win the scenario. I try to look at the objectives first and make these my priorities.
It is not necessarily for the sake of better score that I am wondering what could I do better to win the scenario and not to lose as many units as I did. However, as long as attrition points matter, it is also important as a secondary objective.
For example, I don't think the idea to attack Shieldbreakers after single round of shooting with two units of my own was a bad idea. They had around 10 points of damage I think already. With defense 4+ I had a good chance to inflict enough damage to rout them. But the attack was not successful and as a consequence I lots two infantry units. Sea Guard immediately after the counter attack and Palace Guard the turn after.
Instead of taking control over the center for a turn I was pushed back and had to use my shooting to finish the job and divert Drakons to reclaim the token. I am glad I had an opportunity to adapt and hit again but I simply wonder if one more turn of shooting was not a better idea anyway.
Last but not least, it is more difficult to learn some lessons when you win so that is why I am trying to be critical about decisions I made.
Thanks for the write up Swordie and being kind on jp y obvious failings haha.
Stupid push, it's all in the name
My pleasure, Matt! And I don't know what failings you are talking about.
But I heard Dan King forgot about the scenario in on of his recent tournaments so I guess it is what the best players do once in a while
It seems it was quite a productive day for battle reports writing and here is the one from the last game of the Kings of CroNation 1 tournament:
Many thanks to Chris for a game and sorry it ended in an abrupt way.
Thanks for reading!
Here is a summary of experiences from Kings of Cro-Nation 1 tournament: http://swordmasterofhoeth.blogspot.com.au/2016/12/kings-of-cro-nation-1-summary-20161204.html
Once again, many thanks to Matt and Three D6 crew for organizing the event!
And to my opponents, Richard, Tas, Matt and Chris for great games!
Awesome write up Swordie, really loved it.
Thanks a lot for comments!
Great to know that! It is always better to make decisions on such matters early.
Thanks! I am glad you like it and congratulations on a perfect prediction!
Great Battle reports Swordmaster -
If you do requests I want to see a re-match against the Undead guy
Requests? What the?
He's like the DJ of Kings of War - reports to soothe the soul...
I see Ken is lurking here all the time to get intel in advance of your grudge match, Swordmaster. Demand his list in advance and that he play with only 1500, given he'll have so much knowledge AND has said MSU sucks anyway.
I wish I had enough time to do so! I do hope, however, that we will have more opportunities to play against each other with Chris. He is also in Canberra so I guess your requests should also be directed to him.
I have a feeling I will have quite a few "tortured" souls to sooth in the foreseeable future. I would even say a horde of souls!
Yes, I need to re-read your blog for sure! And I considered to conceal my Elves as Fishmen but since you predicted that I will need to surprise you with tactics
I think Ken has just posted some army lists he is considering taking to CanCon so I do have some information on what he may take. But even if he didn't I wouldn't mind.
I really don't want to prove anything in our game or in any other for that matter. I have my favorite style, Ken has his so it is simply great to have variety in the game. It is the player who wins the battles anyway.
I am looking forward to it because I know I will learn from Ken and will do my best to provide a challenge suitable for a Master player.
A new report, this time against Trident Realms with Night Stalker allies:
Thanks for reading!
Poor Trident Realms.
Still I think your plan was sound and it was good to see Ed giving them a run. I think troops of phantoms would be more useful than the regiments of fiends but that is just me
Apologies for a little delay in addressing your comment. I am trying to finish all the reports before I go for holidays
The gaming aspect is of course important, I think we have a chance to have a very interesting game with two different approaches. But it is not the only aspect and equally important for me is to meet the person I discussed the game so often on the forum.
Yes, I got lucky a few times and these waver rolls in particular allowed me to stop the enemy advance. Also holding the flank against the Knuckers was very lucky as I didn't expect the Drakons to keep fighting for so long.
I hope Ed will find some time to write his thought on his initial plan and how it looked from his point of view.
I definitely agree that spotting and then exploiting the mistakes of the opponent is a huge part of the game. I have an impression that more often than not it is a more decisive factor than any other. Hence, I am glad I noticed the opportunity.
I am sure, however, that Ed had certain idea about that particular spell and hopefully he will come back with some comments of his own. I simply wonder if he missed the fact this can happen or there was another idea behind it.
In the meantime, here is the most recent report from the game against our own DarthSabre:
Many thanks for the game, Michael!
Cheers, nice to read about them getting the win :-)
Apologies for the late reply. It's quite a busy time of a year and on top of that the forum was off line for a few days. Fortunately, it is all back!
Thanks a lot for the vote, Chris! I greatly appreciate that and I am happy to know that you would like to play against me and the Outcasts again! The saga should continue to fill the new pages in the chronicles of both armies.
I didn't win the best sport but the fact you have nominated me to that award means I am moving to towards the right direction! I was nonetheless surprised to receive best painted and that is a huge motivation to keep painting.
Glad to hear you are adding more units to your collection but I will be happy to play against any army you would like to field. If it is the same force then it is great as it can support the idea of the vampire resurrecting his minions to fight again. If new units show up it is equally great because I would have a chance to face new enemies.
I am looking forward to the next opportunity to play against you!
Ed posted his thoughts on the game on mantic forum and I took the liberty of copy-pasting it here for your convenience.
Thanks for posting and wish you a very merry christmas as well.
Your reports are as always enjoyable and entertaining.
I am already looking forward to Clash/CanCon as I will have 7 more games to write about
Here is an introduction to the series of reports I will be posting over next several weeks from the most recent Clash of Kings!
Many thanks to Matt and Tas for organizing, everyone who contributed to the event and my opponents (in the order of games I played): Ken, Jules, Josh, Micky, Tony, Clint and Michael for seven fantastic games!
I hope you will like the reports from our games
Get to the Games!!!
So happy to see this
Be nice about my turn 3 screwup yeah?
I hope you will forgive me a short delay in publishing 1st battle report and to make the waiting period a little bit less boring here is the link to the most recent episode of Counter Charge where I had an honor to talk about Clash of Kings - Australia!
I hope you will like it and apologies for some glitches in the quality, I guess my microphone was a bit moody that day.
The battle report from the Game 1 at Clash of Kings is ready!
Many thanks to Ken for the game! Congratulations on the win and 5th place overall!
Cheers for the report, a great read!
Great write up - and thanks for the compliments, but to be fair, I was not #2 at the time, only after CanCon did I get there! Also - on the list - mage on foot had bane chant, mounted one had Fireball (12) and both were Elite.
Also, that wood was 2 woods - but I think I advanced into the second one turn 1, so does not make a difference. Also - I'm sure you won the roll off and picked that side, as I would definitely have grabbed your one! I won the roll off for counters and got to put 3 down, but you picked sides, I'm 100%. I can't remember if I took or you gave me first turn - I would have taken it if the opportunity presented itself, I think thats what happened.
Your plan however in placing the markers was brilliant - and made me through the space of deployment go from supremely confident, to highly concerned!!! My confidence was based on my belief that you could not scratch the King with anything in your army, which is essentially what happened.
Deployment tied in with the placement of the Counters, so can't really knock that to much.
I was able to outfox the Drakons with the King sure, but similarly, its hard to turn down a flank charge, even hindered, on the knights. I also made a mistake in which drakons I fought and which I blasted and got this wrong - leaving the flank of the knights, and then the rear on the Bloodsworn which I believed I had blocked - either of these would have given me a lot more room for error and lost 1 less unit at that point in the exchange.
That said - you did sacrifice the Drakon lord, in hindsight, you probably gave him the wrong role in the game. But again - I think you knew stopping the King was the key to the game. I also think you left the silverbreeze on the objective, they prob should have stuck their head out for a few shots at stuff - those couple of wounds might have gotten a nerve test later on, or wavered a mage etc - it gave me an extra unit so to speak in the middle turns.
To be honest, I'm not completely convinced you could have stopped the fallen romping in - I was somewhat confident that at some point, I'd get that big turn and drop several units in one round. But I'm not going to deny there were some moments where that probability looked to be diminishing! But when protected from Flanks and rears, the Bloodsworn are enormously hard to shift.
Overall - I thought your plan was really good - and If you had have placed 3 tokens instead of 2 I might have had egg on my face. The MSU did well in most areas in its blocking, but its weakness, being unable to really put out a level of concentrated fire or stay a turn in a combat meant you couldn't win any 1:1 or even 2:1 exchanges leaving me units damaged but standing.
SO my question to you now is - given the coming changed to how scenarios are scored, are we going to see a Horde of outcasts anytime soon?
(and get to the rest of the games - I still hold you responsible for trampolining Clint on Day 2!)
Thanks for your comments! As always, I really appreciate that!
Thanks! Always good to know that the battle report is entertaining, even if I lose
Thanks a lot for taking time to write your comments. I greatly appreciate that as it is fantastic to have them from both players. Makes for much more interesting read too!
My apologies for the mistakes in the list and sorry I mixed up who won which roll-off. I thought I have it correct but obviously my memory was not perfect. I have already corrected them and if you see any further discrepancies, please, let me know!
I am still wondering if the charge with the Drakon Lord was premature but I knew you would advance very fast and that was my immediate reply. Maybe if I had a better deployment, i.e. having Palace Guard closer to the lake so that if you landed anywhere nearby I would have a chance to attack with the infantry?
I definitely wasted the unit of Silver Breeze because they could add a little in terms of ranged attacks from the opposite flank. A few points of damage here and there is always good to do.
I don't think I would have completely stopped the Fallen from getting to my flank eventually. But if they arrived one turn later that would have been a good thing for me too. At the very least, I would have probably loose a unit less.
The charges against Bloodsworn were not the cases where the frontal attacks from my small units work the best but it was because I allowed myself to get boxed in. That is why I should have moved AS's turn earlier, shoot at one horde and attack it the following turn with the units I chose. Instead, I had to attack the fresh Bloodsworn and I knew from the previous experience that I would have needed good rolls to be able to rout them with a double punch. It simply cost me too much, because I did not prevent your sorcerers from destroying my knights. Otherwise, I am still happy to attack with 3 units, lose one to counter charge and punch again with remaining 2. Especially that it often means one of them may have a flank.
I hope I at least demonstrated that MSU has a potential, even if it is a risky and fragile approach.
To answer your question - no, I don't plan hordes despite the changes with the new book coming. The reasons are that first, I want to read the book as a whole and then try to anticipate the impact on the way people would play it. Second, I need to play first and see how I can adapt my style to take into account the Unit Strength. Who knows, maybe new spells will be enough to help me with that?
And yes, I can already confirm I did help Clint to get back to the top! Although trust me, that was not my intention, he is simply a better player
Great write up
I actually think the MSU style is fine for the new scenario scoring. I don't think it's so much the number of hordes you bring but the amount of flexible scoring you have. The MSU list from cancon has a potential 17 points for scenario scoring which is excellent for elves, and a lot of it is fast and mobile. Should do well I think
I will definitely see how I can adapt to the new environment. Nothing helps to improve the game for me as new challenges with the same army!
Hopefully, I will be able to test the theory in practice sooner than later
I actually agree the MSU can work in the new scoring (as far as I know - don't have all the book info like some people la-de-da and all...) but its a case of how many zones to be scored on and so forth - getting enough unit strength in a 12"x12" vs within a 3" point and so forth.
What I was really interested in was if Swordie was thinking the new rules would require him to start making changes, vs allowing him to find more power in the MSU.
But maybe I need to see how he went in the other 6 games first...
Clash of Kings was a great test for me and that was one of the goals. Go and play with the army I like and see what I can do with it against variety of opponents. I believe there is a potential in MSU but I am happy to discuss it after I post all the reports to have a better overview.
In any case, Clash for me was just the beginning. What I aim at in 2017 is actually getting the army painted in the unified colors. I am very happy with my Drakons and Silver Breeze, now it is time to give a nice paint job to the new models. I plan to start replacing the units with the new ones so that I still have painted army while I focus on another unit.
Because of that I may be a bit reluctant in making changes that mean changes in the composition. However, I am always very happy to discuss the options. I just hope you would understand why I sometimes stubbornly refuse to implement some.
It is also due to the fact that I learn better when I use what I have but try to adapt to new environment. It has already been beneficial in helping me to speed up my game so I don't get timed out!
Like you, I would love to read the book as a whole and then try to decide if I need to make any adjustments.
Here is the link to the report from game 2:
Many thanks to Jules aka HaggisMacbeth for a great game!
Great, will need to read it today at work
Nice report Pawel, thanks for taking the time to document and provide such insightful commentary on our game.
I feel like with this game I dropped the ball pretty bad with a few key mistakes. First was pushing my nightmares up on my left flank trying to keep out of charge range of your drakons but get in for a cheeky flank on your centre line. Foolishly I left the side door open for your drakons to pop down the flank, and at that point I knew it was going to be tough to win.
Second key mistake was really not pushing my spectres up early. I kept moving them to be just in shooting range and you'd then move your stuff out. It meant turn after turn I could not concentrate my fire, which is always my intent and something I did in other games.
Not being able to also pop your silverbreeze cavalry despite being charged twice by phantoms and flanked by the nightmares was also a real bummer and set my units up to be destroyed and also not have the opportunity to keep pushing on and taking out units already damaged by shooting.
Thanks a lot for your comment!
It was a great pleasure playing against you and your wonderful army! I hoped we could have a rematch and it happened!
I often have an impression that in KoW it is the person who makes fewer mistakes that wins. It is not always the case, of course, but it seems to me that consequences of the mistakes are often difficult to reverse.
I agree about the Spectres and indeed, leaving the regiment of the Drakons unattended helped me to get these combined charges. At the same time, I also left my right flank open when the knights died and Drakons were admiring the rocks!
The unlucky nerve test for Silver Breeze definitely put your units in danger too.
I am curious about your overall impressions after the tournament and what are your plans for your army. Further expansion with even more units to choose from?
In any case I hope we will have another opportunity to play against each other sooner than later!
Are you attending the one-dayer at 3d6? May be a chance for a game! I would like to attend but need to wait until next week to confirm.
The new battle report, from Game 3 of Clash of Kings:
Many thanks to Josh for a fantastic game and very enthusiastic support during the battle!
Nice work, really enjoying these.
Couple of mistakes sure by the Undead - but man that double one sucked, as did the combat turns, that must have been some terrible rolling! How they didn't break that cav first turn I'm not sure...
Yeah, that double 1 lost him the game. Realistically, he would have routed the stormwind troop then turned to face the drakons (who'd have finished off the zombie trolls). Then theres no way the drakons can both deal with the soul reavers and also arrive in time to help out the right flank.
Great report as always Swordie!
Thanks for comments, guys!
I also don't like these double 1's! They always steal the glory from you and make any brilliant plan look like a lucky chain of events
Sorry for a delay! Here is a new report, game 4 of Clash of Kings Australia:
Many thanks to Micky for a great game and fantastic photos I could use for the report!
That turn 4 man.
Ah well. Still a good game
I must say it looks even more powerful with all these red arrows than it felt during the game.
I am glad you still enjoyed the game and I really appreciate that as I know it was not easy to carry on with good grace. You showed a great sportsmanship spirit in the face of adversity!
Hopefully, we will have a chance for a rematch one day!
Nice reads, keep it up!
Thanks, marius! Here is another one, against Ogres in Push! scenario:
Many thanks to Tony for yet another fantastic game!
Another great writeup, thanks for your efforts.
It did seem your opponent was a bit hesitant to throw in the big guys, 190 point giant is 10% of your army, gives the opponent a big advantage removing it from the battle.
Also it seemed the RGB was a little confused, did it have a plan? Each turn I thought it would head toward the drakons, then SW1 and PG and then maybe the SG and character but it seemed like it got lost in the backfield and found itself chasing the tail of the elves until it got shot.
Thanks a lot!
I don't know why Tony was shy with using his monsters. I understand Giant's mission but I expected all 3 tokens to be assigned to it as soon as Tony started allocating them. Somehow Mammoth was reluctant to invite the charge of the Chariots too when they would have attacked through the forest.
It helped me to focus on Ogres but I need to come up with a better plan if played against such an army again because it seems I fought against 75% of it only!
We didn't have a chance to discuss the Blaster either so I don't know what the plan was. Maybe Tony wanted to light the fuse with more units around, not just one?
Thanks a lot for your comments, it is very much appreciated!
I am the same! it is only recently that I had more opportunities to play more games. Time is often a luxury so when I write the report I have a chance to re-play the game. That often helps to spot missed opportunities already. But even more so if I can discuss the game with other players! So don't hesitate to provide more comments!
Game 6 from Australian Clash of Kings:
Many thanks to Clint for a great game and congratulations on the win as well as the overall victory in the tournament!
Couple of things. Clint wasn't the number 1 ranked player at that point. He became the #1 player on the back of you trampoline like springing him to the top of the table...
Also in a lot of your games you went first, and did virtually nothing on the first turn - often staying out of range. Every time I look at a report of you doing that I feel that its a wasted oppertunity. no doubt sometimes it paid off... I dunno... your army didn't see to have "enough" firepower to back that retreat mode - works fine against an all combat army like mine, but when the opponent is a bit more balanced...
That said, as far as this game goes - I get the feeling you would love to have it over again. But man - how good are the shock troops!!!
I remember they got changed late in the testing, definately a great unit.
Enjoying the reports as always.
I honestly have no idea how an army like yours could beat that ratkin list if played by someone of equal or better skill. You could play it 100 times and I'd back the ratkin player 99 times. Just a horrid matchup for an MSU elite army
Really like that Ratkin army though, exactly how they should look on the table, a swarm of rats coming at the enemy.
Thanks a lot for your comments!
I think you missed that I wrote on the blog that Clint is "currently" number 1
Also, what do you mean by me being a trampoline? I stole whole 2 points from him and he won by a single point over Jeff! You gave Clint 3 points too!
In any case, Clint deserved to win overall anyway, he is a great player after all.
There are a few reason why I deploy far and seem not to do much in the opening turn.
First of all, I don't always choose to be first, sometime it is my opponent who elects to be second. Clint did just that in our game.
Second, if I am not sure how the enemy is going to deploy and want to stay out of the range of the ranged attacks, regardless of who starts, then that is how I deploy. My army is fast and I can cover the distance quickly if I want to. But I cannot recover lost units so it makes sense to me to play safe in the opening round to adjust to the circumstances and keep the units alive for longer. I am not a bloodthirsty Varangur Warlord who throws his minions at the enemy immediately
Third, that gives me a bit of more space for maneuver. I didn't use it in the game against Clint but I like to have that option. It is not to redeploy but allows me to shift the center towards one or another flank if there is a need.
It is not a retreat mode and I don't think I need to convince the enemy to come to me with my shooting. Sometimes the scenario is enough incentive for the opponent to move anyway. And while my ranged attacks can still hurt, it has different role in the army.
It is not the best option under any circumstances and I am sure I chose this option in games where another would have been better. But it is not a bad choice by default and as I mentioned above, there are reasons for that deployment.
I am not happy with how I played this game of course. It would have been much more interesting for me, for Clint and for the readers if I put up a better fight. I am sorry for that but all I can do at this stage is learn from my mistakes, learn from more experienced player like Clint and hopefully be much better prepared next time!
Of course, I would love to have a chance for a rematch or at least to play against Ratkin again! I already have some ideas I would like to try and see if they are any better than my first plan!
And yes, shock troops are awesome! But every unit can be defeated, I just need to learn how!
Thanks! I really liked how Clint's army was designed and looked at the battle field. I wish I took some photos from the closer distance. The Blight with the Bell looked great in particular!
I would not be so pessimistic. Clearly, the general is to be blamed for this defeat
I cannot yet tell you how to beat it but it was a good learning experience, even if quite painful! I believe every army can be beaten and hopefully I will be able to get my revenge one day.
I find this report quite interesting and it shows a tactic that I learned from playing against Clint back in the 90's.
Its easy to think that with little men on the table that my army fights, your army fights, we all fight, butt heads and roll heaps of dice and models die but when I played Clint (in 40k with his space wolves) in the 90's he used to hide, sneakily move his models around and he would be a real PITA as he would pop them out when it suited him and usually destroyed a heap of my models.
Its can be a hard tactic to implement as generally we all want to roll dice and kill things and you dont do that by hiding or avoiding combat (until the right moment) but it is a tactic that is fundamental to wargaming in choosing when to fight. Clint implements it well by hiding behind the central hills until he was ready to pop out and try and take control.
Clint is a great challenge to play against and learn from but he is often frustrating as he often seems to be out of your reach as he repeatedly punches you in the face.
Oh dear - I fear one of our famous debates is coming...
Many thanks for writing up your games and including the losses as well as the wins. For occasional players like me, your battle reports are both interesting and an excellent guide to game play.
Thanks a lot for comments!
I agree that patience in this game pays off a lot and Clint demonstrated that. He used the terrain very well and that is why I am happy I had a chance to play against him, despite the biggest loss of the event for me. I have a lot to learn and one of the reasons I attended the tournament was to have a chance to play against large variety of opponents and armies to get more experience.
I am looking forward to another opportunity to play against Clint and in the meantime, I will be preparing
Excellent! I like our debates a lot!
I was actually looking at our game from the point of view of the Unit Strength and that will help Clint's army even more. I am very curious if he is going to change anything in the composition and if he is going to play with Ratkin. I hope he would because he showed perfectly that you don't have to cheese out even sneaky Ratkin to win games and tournaments!
I didn't have the good plan, true. It was my first game against Ratkin so it had a bigger chance to happen. I tried to adapt when it was clear I didn't anticipate the way Clint wanted to deploy and obviously I was hesitating too much. Or committing the units at the wrong moment.
But I disagree that the ideas are not coming. Quite the contrary, I just need to clarify them and test them first!
Control seems to favor being second as one can still jump units over to the zones without the fear of being attacked. But I think that part of the game is also to take this into account and refine tactical goals, depending on the circumstances. How? Well, that's the part I am still learning to implement properly
I definitely agree I should not focus on certain way of deploying and I didn't think I may have. In the reports I have focused on each game separately so far but when I do the write up of the event I will have a look at them all. It may be the case that I somehow favored this approach more than others and it will be interesting to see if I can find out the reasons. The idea is to have many options to choose from!
Moving back and forward (or in reverse order) does look like it is not a good move or simply that the player cannot decide what to do. However, what I tried to attempt is to draw the enemy closer. For instance, I would start a bit forward to see if the enemy is going to approach boldly or casually. If the opponent moved carefully, I would withdraw a bit to lure him further forward. And then jump over.
In this game I could not do that because of double line deployment. I moved a bit forward in case Clint wanted to move his Blight over the hills. He didn't so I moved back a bit to let the Shock Troops advance and the mistake on my part was that I attacked too early and didn't anticipate the fact the Slaves could make way for the second unit.
And while it is not the best option, keeping units alive one longer, even if they don't do much is still better than losing them carelessly.
I am happy such game happened. Probably even better that it was against Clint as it showed me how badly I can lose due to such mistakes. I would like to think I have learned already but let's wait until I can demonstrate that in the games
Thanks a lot for your kind words! No problem with writing about the losses! I hope that other players may actually suggest what I could have done so that I can do better next time!
I am very happy that my reports are both, entertaining and useful! Thanks again!
Well, I managed to finish the report from the last game of the tournament, this time against our own Darth Sabre
Many thanks to Michael for a fantastic game!
Just a short summary to the series of reports from Clash of Kings Australia:
Once again, many thanks to Matt and Tas for organizing the event!
And to all my fantastic opponents: Ken, Jules, Josh, Micky, Tony, Clint and Michael for great games!
Here is the introduction to the series of reports from The Valley of Kings 1 event:
Many thanks to Matt, Tas and Three D6 store for organizing it!
Here is the report from game 1 of the Valley of Kings:
Many thanks to Lawrence for a great game and very positive attitude!
Hrm, the battle images arnt working. tried on the tablet and PC, maybe photobucket is having a problem?
Thanks for letting me know. A friend of mine also mentioned the issue and I noticed the previous reports have the same problem too
I will try to fix it, starting with the new report to be posted soon (I hope!).
It seems that the problem with disappearing pictures affected more reports so I will need to spend time re-uploading them. I fixed the report against Night Stalkers. I noticed that initially I could not upload the pictures again, no matter if I wanted to do so with the link from the Photo Bucket or directly from my own drive. Only when I cleared cookies, blogspot allowed me to re-upload.
I don't know what was the reason for that and I hope the number of affected reports is not too large. In the meantime, here is the link to the most recent report from the Valley of Kings 1, against TO Matt himself!
Many thanks to Matt for a great game and congratulations on winning the event!
Here is the most recent report from the game 3 of the Valley of Kings 1 event:
Many thanks to Andrew for a great game! It was fantastic to be able to play against Twilight Kin for the first time!
Great read and looks like a couple of great games at the end there.
Game 3 was just good play by you - You have to play the scenario. Well done!
Thanks! All the games were great
Thanks a lot, Ken! I really appreciate your kind words!
I have finally managed to write the report from the last game against Tas and his gorgeous Trident Realms army:
Many thanks to Tas for a great game!
Thanks for the write up again. Great stuff.
Thanks marius! Here is the short summary of the event:
Many thanks to Matt, Tas and Three D6 for organizing the event. And to my opponents, Lawrence, Matt, Andrew and Tas for fantastic games!
Looking forward to seeing what changes you make to the list with the CoK pack.
But I still expect MOAR GAMES!
The changes are small but here is the spoiler. When I replaced my Mage with 3rd Army Standard (mounted) with the Bane Chant, I had points for 2 upgrades. Let's see if you can guess what are the upgrades and who got them
I have just started working on diagrams from the most recent game, this time playing online on Universal Battle 2 against an alliance of Kingdoms of Men and Brotherhood. Stay tuned!
Here is the most recent report from the game against Kingdoms of Men with Brotherhood allies played on Universal Battle 2:
Here is the most recent report against Trident Realms and Dwarf Allies in a new Occupy scenario:
Thanks for reading!
Well done Pawel, good game! Looks like you scrapped by in that one but showed how important it is to play to the objectives and not treat it like a simple 'Kill'
I've not faced it but I can see how intimidating it would be facing down those couple of hordes; one def 6 and the other regen 4; both need serious work to remove
Thanks Swordie, looks like a great game.
Thanks for your comments!
Cheers! These two hordes are indeed tough to kill and Ed did well in supporting them with each other. I managed to get the Naiads before but only when first isolated and then attacked from a few directions at the same time. Placoderms proved to be even harder nut to crack
But yes, I managed to win on the scenario. I think, however, that if I didn't make the mistakes I did I could have saved a few more units. Always room to improve!
Thanks! It was indeed!
Any chance of getting Ed's thoughts? His list looks quite interesting, certainly a different take with the allies as the common wisdom seems to be for flyers or fast units
Just saw Ed's thoughts on the Mantic forum.
Very interesting and love these reports in particular. If you could play regularly against Ed that would be great.
I am sorry for a late reply. Long day at work!
I wanted to copy-paste Ed's post for you to read and I am glad you have already found it on the Mantic forum. I decided to place it below anyway, Ed has some good observations and I guess it would be nice to have it here as well.
I will do my best to play against Ed on regular basis, we have had some good games already so I hope he will be back for yet another re-match.
Here is his post as promised:
I missed Valley of Kings 2, unfortunately. But I managed to write a new post for the blog which I hope you find interesting:
Thanks for reading!
Due to unprecedented real life interference I don't have any new battle reports at the moment. However, I got my copy of Edge of the Abyss and here is the ling to a short review:
interesting stuff, I am waiting for my book to turn up which should be hopefully next week. I am hopeful it will be the start of some good things
Here is the link to the introduction to the set of battle reports I will be posting in the following days:
Here is the link to the first game from Valley of the Kings 3.1 tournament. Many thanks to Matt for a fantastic game!
Here is the link to the report from Game 2:
Many thanks to Daniel for a game!
Ugh - that Ogre turn 2 was bad - Let you get everything you wanted from that point on.
Don't think he'll do that again next time though!
And Congrats on jumping into the top 10 Pawel. Looking like we'll see a Masters write up!
Well, my opponent tried to cover all the angles and I didn't know what I can attack until my turn. I think that is what I like about my army that it gives quite a few options to choose from. I am glad that those I chose this time paid off.
As to the Masters there are still a few events coming so let's wait until the end of the season But thanks for the congrats! I am definitely happy with the overall performance!
Here is the link to the report from the Game 3 of Valley of Kings 3.1 tournament against Forces of Basilea;
Many thanks to Kate for a great game!
Here is the link to the last game of The Valley of Kings 3.1 tournament:
Many thanks to Ken "Chaaarge" for a fantastic game!
great report, thanks
Thank you so much for taking time and writing about the game from your own perspective. I am sure the readers appreciate it too! It is always great to have both players to add some remarks and you provided a very detailed account on our battle.
While dice can always be fickle and twist the fate of any encounter I think this game also shows your skill as a player. It is not easy to get an army that you do not play regularly with and do so well with it. And while I agree I was too hesitant on the right flank, you used it perfectly to your advantage and realized your battle plan. I really admire that and it was great to be able to learn from you first hand!
I wonder if you would do anything different that game, with full benefit of hindsight of course! After all a single decision can lead to a completely different outcome.
I am also happy I could write about out battle and show that competitive and sporty behavior are not mutually exclusive. I will do my best to follow your example.
I hope we will have an opportunity to play again, I plan to attend Clash of Kings again and I better get back to painting as it is just a few months away!
Pawel, I will look forward to CoKAu, you should also try and get along to Castle Assault with the Fairy Matt 😁, and it's looking likely you'll be at Masters too, well played sir 👍
With hindsight, in all honesty I don't think I would have done anything differently, I do keep wondering about the amount of points tied up on my right with king and horrors, however, there was no way I could risk the horrors in the centre, they would have been next to useless and been shot off even earlier, and maybe the king in the centre, but to be fair, his breath proved invaluable on the flank.
If the water elementals hadn't decided to be completely ineffectual, and stuck to the plan, they should have caused you more pain, as it was, you deleted them with ease, reformed your line, and brushed the dust off, that was unexpected.
I tend to look at the terrain and scenario, decide on a plan, and stick to it, one thing I try not to do, is be influenced by an opponents deployment, hence I deploy relatively fast, as not to be distracted. I've found it really screws things up if I react to setup lol
Thanks for more comments!
Sticking to the plan and not getting distracted is definitely a very good approach, no matter what! It also saves time and I must admit with different philosophy I play the game it is often a risk for me. I do understand that advantage though and I am not surprised you stuck to it. After all, in our game the dice had some interesting impact so the situation could have changed dramatically if any of the moments we have already discussed went a bit different.
As to the tournaments and calendar I am afraid I will not be able to make it to Castle Assault. It would be great honor to qualify to Masters but I will wait for the official result first I am already very happy with my achievements this year, didn't even think about Masters until the last event.
Whenever we have a chance to play again I expect that you are going to be much more aggressive with your all mounted Varangur army
Here is a short summary of the most recent tournament, The Valley of Kings 3.1 I have recently attended.
Here is the report from the first game in the frame of Edge of the Abyss campaign. Scenario 1:
Many thanks to Mark for a fantastic game!
Here is the link to the report from game 2 of Edge of the Abyss campaign against Orcs:
Many thanks to Tas for a great game!
Here is the link to the 3rd game of Edge of the Abyss campaign:
Many thanks to Chris for a great game and congratulations for a well deserved victory!
Here is the link to the full report from the game against superb army modeled and painted by Jules aka HaggisMacbeth:
Many thanks to Jules for a great game!
Brilliant. Thanks for all of the write ups
Here is the report from the game 5 of the Edge of the Abyss campaign:
Many thanks to Christo for a great game!
Here is the link to the short summary after the Edge of the Abyss campaign:
Great reports as usual mate, reading the ones I have missed is making me want to paint more KoW
Sorry for delay in replying. Thanks a lot! I am glad you like them. It was a nice period of time where I had quite a few games. The tournament and the campaign both provided a lot of entertainment and it it was really good to bring models back to the battle.
There are plenty of the opportunities to play games at the moment but I felt like a need a bit of a break to catch up with painting. It goes a bit slow (as usual!) but I hope the unit I am working on will look good. It was the one that required the most work anyway so I am glad I started painting it.
However, we have a tournament during the last weekend of October here in Canberra and I hope to attend!
Here is the link to the introduction to the series of reports from the games during the mos recent tournament The Valley of Kings 4 in Canberra:
Here is the link to the first report from The Valley of Kings 4 event games.
Many thanks to Mark Ward for a great game!
Here is the link to the game 2 of the Valley of Kings 4 tournament:
Many thanks to Damian for a great game!
Here is the link to the game 3 of Valley of Kings 4 tournament:
Many thanks to Chris for a great game!
Here is the link to the most recent battle report from the game 4 of Valley of Kings 4 tournament:
Many thanks to Sean for a great game!
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