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> ATC 2014 Player and Mission pack
Kips
post Mar 23 2014, 09:26 PM
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Yeah was informed this ruling was made after the release so discount my last post.

Dissapointed the knights are out, perhaps people wanted their deathstars to be king a little longer. My point remains about being trigger happy with the ban hammer, but theres nothing that can be done now tongue.gif


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Paddlepop Lion
post Mar 24 2014, 08:06 AM
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it also has a D explosion and a stomp attack.
6 hul points isnt as bad as it CAN be but it would still be the toughest thing in 40k to kill with shooting by a long long way.

Its not a titan sure, but it is getting there
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Æon
post Mar 24 2014, 08:54 AM
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QUOTE(Paddlepop Lion @ Mar 24 2014, 09:06 AM) *

6 hul points isnt as bad as it CAN be but it would still be the toughest thing in 40k to kill with shooting by a long long way.


With it costing at least 370pts you would want it to be hard to kill with shooting...


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Dono1979
post Mar 24 2014, 09:26 AM
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QUOTE(Paddlepop Lion @ Mar 24 2014, 09:06 AM) *

6 hul points isnt as bad as it CAN be but it would still be the toughest thing in 40k to kill with shooting by a long long way.


I wouldnt say by a long way. Landraiders and Monoliths are up there with all round AV14, the illusion of these two is that they blow up easier, only becuase most of the time you are hitting them with AP1 & 2 weapons which give you a stronger chance to get that Explode result.

Because you can actually glance and pen a Knight with lower S weapons which dont normally have the AP1 & 2 statline you are less inclined to get the Explodes result which gives you the additional D3 HP removal, giving you the impression that it takes substantially longer to take down.



Does anyone know what any of the other countries championships are doing in relation to the recent surge of expansions and dataslates etc?

Is there some form of international 'circuit'?


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Paddlepop Lion
post Mar 24 2014, 10:20 AM
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Sure you would want it to be your exactly right
But most armies will fail to kill one in a game. It will cause a huge meta shift and all because it says codex on the cover.
If this was not a codex but a random data slate or formation would it be allowed?
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Æon
post Mar 24 2014, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE(Paddlepop Lion @ Mar 24 2014, 11:20 AM) *

But most armies will fail to kill one in a game.


Have you played with or against an army of these yet?


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Dono1979
post Mar 24 2014, 10:36 AM
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QUOTE(Paddlepop Lion @ Mar 24 2014, 11:20 AM) *

But most armies will fail to kill one in a game. It will cause a huge meta shift and all because it says codex on the cover.
If this was not a codex but a random data slate or formation would it be allowed?


Disagree completely with the ability to kill one a game, but that is a good natured debate for another thread.

Not sure why meta shifts are a bad thing? And because it has Codex on the cover, you will have this problem, GW has decided to make this a Codex, the same as they have decided to BT being a Codex and made Grey Knight a Codex, their rules, their call.

There is nothing wrong with tournaments banning things, including entire Codex, along with various Dataslates and Formations and whatever other name they come up with. Which is what you guys have done inadvertantly by previously banning Super Heavies and D-Weapons, you have banned a Codex without specifically saying that (nothing wrong with it), and as Krefey has said people need to time to prepare for what this format will be like and play games leading up to it.

However I think you are going to find that the game is going to get even murkier in the coming 4-8 months. Again, any idea on what some of the larger international tournaments are doing in this space?


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Paddlepop Lion
post Mar 24 2014, 11:19 AM
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Yea I have played with them and they are super super tough to shooting. Most tau will not be able to shoot it to death because if they try they don't shoot the rest of the army.
Serpent spam can't really kill them and beyond the voltaic staffs necrons won't manage to do very much to them.
I mean it's possible but the amount of effort required is just huge given that you can take suppress them at all.

I don't think they break the game at all. On the contrary I think love there pretty crap. I'm just saying they while smaller versions they are still super heavies and I don't think just because they made this a codex we should automatically Run it.
If they bring out codex reverent titan next month do we run that?
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reshy
post Mar 24 2014, 11:23 AM
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QUOTE(Paddlepop Lion @ Mar 24 2014, 09:06 AM) *


6 hul points isnt as bad as it CAN be but it would still be the toughest thing in 40k to kill with shooting by a long long way.



try shooting into a souped up fateweaver or something lol tongue.gif and yeah, i havent seen a game where someone using 3+ knights hasnt lost. theyre fairly middle tier.

QUOTE(Dono1979 @ Mar 24 2014, 11:36 AM) *


Not sure why meta shifts are a bad thing?


Cause then people jetseer councils and screamer stars wont roflstomp everything so easily anymore of course!
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Paddlepop Lion
post Mar 24 2014, 11:31 AM
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Meta shifts aren't a bad thing. I think Vic does a real good job of adjusting so if anything I consider it and advantage to us.

we have all played 40k this whole time with apocalypse being separate. Gw are not responsible with thier releases so I just don't think that calling it a codex means we have to use it.
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Dono1979
post Mar 24 2014, 11:36 AM
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QUOTE(Paddlepop Lion @ Mar 24 2014, 12:19 PM) *

Yea I have played with them and they are super super tough to shooting. Most tau will not be able to shoot it to death because if they try they don't shoot the rest of the army.
Serpent spam can't really kill them and beyond the voltaic staffs necrons won't manage to do very much to them.



So how do Tau, Necron and Eldar deal with AV14?


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Kips
post Mar 24 2014, 11:45 AM
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QUOTE(Dono1979 @ Mar 24 2014, 12:36 PM) *

So how do Tau, Necron and Eldar deal with AV14?

Eldar easily deal with av14. Bright lances, Fusion guns, Haywire, s10 shooting which eldar has a surprising amount of, Combat with wraithlords, knights, anything with witchblades or singing spears.

Tau do have fusion guns (not in their current lists, but a meta shift would cause list changes), Hammer heads, The haywire grenade like things fire warriors get, riptides with Ion and also in combat smashing.

Necrons have Lords with warscythes, the haywire crypteks which would make really really short work of any vehicle, They also have scarabs to strip armour down (doesnt work on knights but knights have side 12 so s7 spam can work in there), and I can't think of anything else off the top of my head but I think I'm missing something.

People playing serpent spam, broadside spam gunline tau and s7 spam necrons may cry OP against av14 or perhaps even 13. But honestly, it's their own fault for not bringing options to deal with this kind of threat so they should adapt their list and tactics.


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Paddlepop Lion
post Mar 24 2014, 11:50 AM
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With penetrating hits that actually do something.
Tau have riptide, eldar have wraith knights, necrons probably do it with a combo of a few voltaic staffs and gauss but they would tend to just kill it rather than over kill it which they would need to for knights.
Can you imagine how bad it would be to dump out your 2 units of warriors with a voltaic staff guy in each then with some slightly bad rolling you don't kill it? Now you lose both units and your wad is shot.
If you could weapon destroy them or immobilze them it would be no where near as bad.
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reshy
post Mar 24 2014, 11:50 AM
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QUOTE(Kips @ Mar 24 2014, 12:45 PM) *


Necrons have Lords with warscythes, the haywire crypteks which would make really really short work of any vehicle, They also have scarabs to strip armour down (doesnt work on knights but knights have side 12 so s7 spam can work in there), and I can't think of anything else off the top of my head but I think I'm missing something.



their basic troops glancing everything on 6's smile.gif
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Paddlepop Lion
post Mar 24 2014, 12:05 PM
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Yea but how many of those do you want to sacrifice to try and do that through 4++?
Gauss is handy but you can't just throw all your troops out to get splattered by the rest of the army.
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reshy
post Mar 24 2014, 12:08 PM
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4++ on one facing, you could easily deal with one with two serpents assuming you play well movement wise, move into different arcs, dissembarc firedragons, battlefocus into different arcs, not hard to cover it. hell, even deepstriking warp spiders at s7 would mess one up
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Paddlepop Lion
post Mar 24 2014, 12:28 PM
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Both of those things would work quite well. Battle focus is an awesome ability.
That said you have to be able to place said fire dragons and they would be the first to go.
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Kips
post Mar 24 2014, 12:51 PM
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Ok guys, lets not get into theorycrafting how a game will go just through pure numbers or "What you would take out first".

There are countless conditions which can't really be taken into account. Tactics, terrain, dice rolls, hard target priority decisions. Lets just leave it at these armies all have decent play against imperial knights. Anyway, I believe this discussion should probably continue elsewhere as It's got little relevance to ATC this year.

When can we expect a more finalized players pack?


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reshy
post Mar 24 2014, 12:53 PM
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To 40k general!!! tongue.gif
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Charlie_W
post Mar 24 2014, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE(Krefey @ Mar 23 2014, 08:51 PM) *

Well, given the format of the event, the whole point is to be playing a set of rules that is known in advance so the teams involved have enough lead time to prepare / test army lists. So that's why.


Baselining the ruleset six months in advance was all well and good when codex releases tended to be six months apart. That is no longer the case and the ruleset evolves on a monthly basis. Plus the game has had some significant changes in superheavies, D weapons, etc. By locking down the ATC ruleset so far out you will end up with a unique tournament metagame that is significantly out of touch with the rest of 40k. You may as well just play 5th Ed at ATC, that's how relevant the "ATC meta" will be by July.

ATC 2014: Proving how awesome your state is at playing 2013 vintage 40k, yeah baby!


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