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> A Jimbo Dilemma..., Learned Advice Sought
Jimbo81
post Jul 19 2018, 02:57 PM
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I'm gunna take an Iron Orc Warlord with omen of the apocolypse (definitely not axe of the orcpocolpyse).

He's going to be on a boar in a unit of boar riding orcs (maybe edbashers with the +1s and +1AS or just the core unit). I like a unit of 11 of these with character making 12. Full command.

NOW:

If I charge the gutstar and challenge, the ogre player will think - he's +1 for charge and +1st on the charge. I'll accept with my unit champ, give him charge and 4 for combat res, I lose the unit champ (probably) and paste the orc lord in the next round of combat. Orc Combat res is 5, gutstar static res is banner, bsb (maybe), 2-3 ranks. Let's say that both of us can roll LD9 re-rollable for the break test or it's a tie. The next round the great khan does 2-3 wounds to the orc warlord suffering 3-4 in return and the Orc is looking for a pretty low roll to stay in the fight.

IF I'd charged with the orc unit, they're st7 on the charge (lances and do 12 attacks, hitting on 3's (9) wounding on 2's (8). Boars go next, 5 attacks, 3 hits wounding on 3's = 2 wounds. 10 wounds from the orcs. The gut star responds with 18 attacks from the unit, 9 hit, 8 wound, 1 saved, 7 wounds. The Great Khan opens up (and quite possibly the bsb is there too) and kills 3 orcs (BSB probably another 2) - so it's problematic for the orc player as the combat could be a small win or a possible small loss and they stay put on a 7.

The problem now is that the ogres lost 3 ogres and have 6-9 left while the orcs were smashed and have 3 left plus a lord.

Seems like both moves are dumb unless you can guarantee killing the great khan in the ogre player's turn which is hard because he's got five wounds - but you've saved your mounted edbasher unit from annihilation while pinning the gutstar - maybe it maneuvers for a flank charge on the ogres in the following turn or another unit does this to crack the star.

Is there a better way to do this or an item combo I'm overlooking? Best combo I've made (ie: probs poor) is 1+/5++ rerolling the first miss. I believe this means he will live through the first Khan vs Orc Warlord round and kill the Khan in the next round - still a 500pt gamble and your general goneski.

Do you use grotlings on the gut star and NOT fight the unit? You'll get buggerall points that way. Do you try and get the flank charge and knock it out that way?
Would you charge the unit and the character in and try for a combat buff?
Do you take mintoks totem and the 1+ re-rollable arm save and try and get by without a ward save?

Is the boar rider a dud build and you need a wyvern to guarantee the dead great khan?

Head says charge with the unit, buff it so it's combat res exceeds the ogres, and cast the thurmo spell negating their general and bsb and watch him fail LD 7 steadfast.

Thoughts?


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hmjesus
post Jul 20 2018, 03:02 PM
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If you've got the grotlings, I would never engage the gutstar. Take a 13-7 scenario win.


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Draeth
post Jul 20 2018, 03:32 PM
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Gutstar? Did you go back to 8th edition again Jimbo?

You should be scared of units of 30 Judges, Lion Guard or Swordmasters. The things that will delete your whole unit before you attack.

This post has been edited by Draeth: Jul 20 2018, 03:35 PM
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Jimbo81
post Jul 21 2018, 12:08 PM
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Was thinking about somehow making the gutstar frenzied, feeding it a unit of orcs and waiting for the over run, then flank charging it; but you have to run away in their turn. Not easy to engineer...


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Draeth
post Jul 21 2018, 02:24 PM
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QUOTE(Jimbo81 @ Jul 21 2018, 12:08 PM) *

Was thinking about somehow making the gutstar frenzied, feeding it a unit of orcs and waiting for the over run, then flank charging it; but you have to run away in their turn. Not easy to engineer...


Nothing forces you to overrun.
A Discipline test is need to not pursue.
Frenzy makes that test maximised.
Gutstars don't exist anymore.

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Jimbo81
post Jul 23 2018, 08:01 AM
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Frenzy still causes overrun. It's only Beta Rules where this does not occur. I was playing and talking beta rules, hence my confusion. I don't play a lot.

"Frenzy
Model parts with Frenzy gain +1 Attack and Immune
to Psychology. After all charges have been
declared, each of your units with one or more
models (or model parts) with Frenzy must take
a Frenzy Test (Leadership Test) if it did not declare
a charge. If the test is failed, the unit must
declare a charge against the closest viable enemy
unit, if there is one. Characters are never forced to
charge out of units. Units with one or more model
parts with Frenzy must always pursue and overrun
whenever possible. If a model part with Frenzy
is ever on the losing side of a Combat Round, it
immediately loses this special rule."

I'm calling a large unit of ogres with one or two characters a gut star. This is because it's a death-star unit of fat models with Guts (ogres). They get impact hits, have a lot of high strength attacks and a lot of wounds and stomp. Gut star.

Back on topic:

The answer to the problem is adding a second Orc Warlord with a big magic weapon and attacking rank and file. The loss of the boar boy unit is acceptable because capping the gutstar will win you the game.

Still trying to find a way to make a combat challenge beast out of scarification (can't be wounded on better than 5+) as the lore attribute of shamanism.

At least with the boar boys, you're not being stomped.

Now to test the theory hammer - something like this:

4500 Pts - Orcs & Goblins Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1485

Orc Warlord (1#, 565 pts)
1 Iron Orc Warlord, 335 pts = (base cost 0 + Iron 285 + War Cry! 45 + Shield 5)
1 Omen of the Aporcalypse, 120 pts
1 Dusk Forged, 50 pts
1 Potion of Swiftness, 10 pts
1 War Boar, 50 pts

1+ re-roll-able armour save with the bid stick. potion if I think it'll make me go first.

Orc Warlord (1#, 430 pts)
1 Iron Orc Warlord, 290 pts = (base cost 0 + Iron 285 + Shield 5)
1 Shady Shanking, 50 pts
1 Pan of Protection Pinchin’, 40 pts
1 War Boar, 50 pts

1+/<steal special save from opponent>, lethal strike, lightning reflexes, re-roll failed wounds in a duel.
This guy is my challenge monkey.

Common Orc Mounted 'Eadbashers (10#, 490 pts)
10 Common Orc Mounted 'Eadbashers, 440 pts = 10 * 35 (base cost 25 + Common 4 + Lance 3 + Shield 3) + Base Cost Adjustment 30 + Champion Sgt 20 + Musician Mus 20 + Standard Bearer Std 20
1 Banner of Speed, 50 pts

Just a character delivery unit. Has 2+ armour save and might do some damage on the turn they charge. 11 st7 attacks + 4 st5 from the boars.

Has 8" on the charge, 9" with warcry and swiftstride ie: move 16" away and declare the charge.





This post has been edited by Jimbo81: Jul 23 2018, 08:33 AM


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FrozenBeard
post Jul 23 2018, 10:55 AM
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Gutstar is still a thing... at least at ETC anyways. Jimbo.... consider that a lot of Great Khans will be armed with Khagadai's Legacy so it will be doing D3 wounds. If your Orc Warlord doesn't take out the Great Khan in a turn then you're probably going to die horribly.

Mikinok's Totem helps here. Check out Jack Blanche's ONG ETC list. He runs a unit like you describe.


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Jimbo81
post Jul 23 2018, 11:38 AM
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Thanks Glen.

Yeah - I was sceptical about his list then I saw it in action at the tournament and have been thinking more and more about it. It's pretty cool and I'm borrowing a lot of ideas.

What can you do about the d3 weapon? Guess I'm taking mikinok's totem. Boom.

Have refined the double warlord on boars build:

Orc Warlord (1#, 585 pts)
1 Iron Orc Warlord, 335 pts = (base cost 0 + Iron 285 + War Cry! 45 + Shield 5)
1 Omen of the Aporcalypse, 120 pts
1 Dusk Forged, 50 pts
1 Troll Ale Flask, 30 pts
1 War Boar, 50 pts
This guy is the general - just does damage and has 1+ re-rollable. Get's a lot of attacks and just because I can, he also does a st5 no arm save hit per turn too.

Orc Warlord (1#, 535 pts)
1 Iron Orc Warlord, 290 pts = (base cost 0 + Iron 285 + Shield 5)
1 Shady Shanking, 50 pts
1 Tuktek's Guard, 55 pts
1 Pan of Protection Pinchin’, 40 pts
1 Talisman of Shielding, 50 pts
1 War Boar, 50 pts



This post has been edited by Jimbo81: Jul 23 2018, 11:42 AM


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