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> [Arc40k] 2014 Feedback thread
Mark of Nurgle
post Feb 19 2014, 12:39 AM
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Loved the weekend. Superb new venue. Huzzah.

The video briefings were near-awesome, what an ingenious piece of instructional design; sadly let down by the projector and font, but with the right res I thought this was beyond anything ever done before. I could watch that and get the whole mission, how inspired! It will be easy to optimise this for display now that the technology is known. If time is an issue, I'd dispense instead with the Q+A (in fact I should have in my years, sorry everyone!), as they are invariably answered by reading the details, or you can work it out between you.

Calling that amazing level of presentation a "waste of time" is a bit heartbreaking to me.

Astonishing effort from the BBQ crew, I was one happy vegetarian.

Drunkenness: never been an issue (has it?) so what say let's draft a set of rules and enforce them together. No gaming over .05.

Paint judging: maybe a copy of the checklist per player, so that the judge and player can look at it and work through it together, like a Sports sheet. My judge was clearly working through it, all power to him, but having the player's eyes on it might prompt people to bring out their special conversions etc. and should also speed it up - if the process is taking too long, you can hurry it along.

This thread now has 50% more posts than the thanks thread. I am sad about that. That weekend was amazing.

Arf,

M.


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jimjimjimmyjim
post Feb 19 2014, 05:58 AM
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QUOTE(Ven Dread @ Feb 18 2014, 11:32 PM) *

Not at all... people havent requested it earlier at all, I was merely pointing out from an Organisers point of view why we schedule it then rather than after round 1. We did have people arrive after 9am... which would have been the scheduled start to round 1... also... we realised we made an error by handing out the voting forms when u registered rather than after 9am... sad.gif

Make sense?

Yep thanks.


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jimjimjimmyjim
post Feb 19 2014, 06:06 AM
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Hello M.

How can you in force .05? Is there a device you can get that tells you this?

Also in fairness while I don't agree with everything being said, alot of comments here have had positive things to say.


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Ghetti
post Feb 19 2014, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE(jimjimjimmyjim @ Feb 19 2014, 07:06 AM) *

How can you in force .05? Is there a device you can get that tells you this?

Breathalizer?


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jimjimjimmyjim
post Feb 19 2014, 08:44 AM
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QUOTE(Ghetti @ Feb 19 2014, 08:41 AM) *

Breathalizer?

I wasn't aware you could buy them?

Also tho how would you enforce it's use?


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zed
post Feb 19 2014, 10:34 AM
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Was only able to visit this year due to family committments, so I will put in a couple of quick comments.

The new venue, looked awesome, and seemed a fair bit cooler than some of the places we played in at Collingwood. That said, I didn't see the worst of it, so I will hold my judgement to next year.

QUOTE(Mark of Nurgle @ Feb 19 2014, 01:39 AM) *

The video briefings were near-awesome, what an ingenious piece of instructional design; sadly let down by the projector and font, but with the right res I thought this was beyond anything ever done before. I could watch that and get the whole mission, how inspired! It will be easy to optimise this for display now that the technology is known. If time is an issue, I'd dispense instead with the Q+A (in fact I should have in my years, sorry everyone!), as they are invariably answered by reading the details, or you can work it out between you.


I didn't see one of the actual briefings, so can't comment on them... But using the display to show the mission and time remaining was handy as a visitor. Gave me a bit of a sense of the timings and what was happening which was nice.

QUOTE(Mark of Nurgle @ Feb 19 2014, 01:39 AM) *

Drunkenness: never been an issue (has it?) so what say let's draft a set of rules and enforce them together. No gaming over .05.


If you drink and game you're a bloody idiot. armata_PDT_36.gif
On a serious basis, probably doesn't need to be quite as strict as driving, but it playing against someone who is smashed isn't what you are there for.

QUOTE(jimjimjimmyjim @ Feb 19 2014, 09:44 AM) *

I wasn't aware you could buy them?

Also tho how would you enforce it's use?

Places like Super cheap sell them.

Alternatively get friendly with some police officers. They may be able to arrange something for it...

The penalty could be points from gaming or sports on a sliding scale, so the drunker you are the more points you loose. If you refuse the Breathalizer you are treated as the highest level of drunk, similar to drink driving.


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Badfang
post Feb 19 2014, 11:22 AM
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Venue Feedback

The venue was brilliant. Especially the sunday once the blinds had been closed. But even on the stupidly hot saturday it was still a lot more comfortable than other venues have been. Maybe some more signage near the carpark though, some people were parking at the wrong ends of the carpark and having to walk extra distances.

Catering Feedback
The guys did a great job, I heard they ran out of food on day 2 though? but thats just training wheels for the event.

As people are mentioning, booze is good, but I think either it needs to be available only at break times, or a limit of one per person per trip to the bar, sure this is not a fix for someone having 8 drinks in a round, but anyonee leaving their table that many times will likely have it reflected in their sports scores.

Mission Feedback

The expected level of awesomeness, I just didn't like the one where the objectives were worth scores/could be blown up. Tooo complicated.


Scoring System Feedback

Just make comp 1- 5 instead of 0 - 4. Its the same thing, just mentally reading it its a little better.

I think perhaps anything being marked 1-2 or 9-10 should have to be TO approved, people were throwing these high scores around willy nilly just because they didn't have a bad game..


Painting Feedback
I got marked first in the tourney… I think…. Craig spent a solid 15 minutes with me, but made me earn my points, justify every mark,as it should be. Doing it during rounds is the only way it can be done on such a large scale, although, just a random idea, perhaps people who get marred during a round can be given a token or something, and this will allowed them an extra 5 minutes at the end of their round to hand in scores?


Stage, screen and "show" Feedback

Really disappointed with people saying it was a waste of time. I think it was frakking brilliant. Blows my mind and gets you super pumped.

What people should be saying is make that typeface bigger and take up 90% of the screen in something easily read.

Other Feedback

Now Im not sure, but I have heard through the grapevines….

Panel judging NEEDS to be round table. 5 people (or however many) in the same room, at the same time, discussing the lists and coming up with a mutual score for an army. Ive been a part of these and they work great.

Peer judging needs to be gotten rid of. It just enables your opponent to snipe after a game. Not everyone is going to do it, but it does happen.



100% keep the players choice marking on the saturday morning pre game 1. If you really want to be a part of players choice and go for it, you make sure you are there early. I as there before rego started, as this was the award I was most interested in.

As I mentioned to Dan, I would not make the marking sheets available for players choice till half an hour in. People were marking and handing in sheets before everybody had set up.

Hope this helps.


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difsta
post Feb 19 2014, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE(Badfang @ Feb 19 2014, 12:22 PM) *

Scoring System Feedback

Just make comp 1- 5 instead of 0 - 4. Its the same thing, just mentally reading it its a little better.

Now Im not sure, but I have heard through the grapevines….

Panel judging NEEDS to be round table. 5 people (or however many) in the same room, at the same time, discussing the lists and coming up with a mutual score for an army. Ive been a part of these and they work great.

Peer judging needs to be gotten rid of. It just enables your opponent to snipe after a game. Not everyone is going to do it, but it does happen.


couple of additions to these points of leigh's.

1. I actually think peer comp has a place, however maybe not in its traditional stand point. It is there to give the comp judges a bit of a buffer if they miss a combo. But I agree it gives the player who potentially just lost a chance to say the list was too hard. I would suggest that make it that peer comp is just used as a guide, if the peer comp and the panel comp vary enough the TO can have a look at the list and maybe readjust the comp score. This would obviously only work for the first say 4 rounds.

2. A round table panel doesn't work with this many lists. I think that you get a panel, do them individually, any ones that have large disparities get reviewed in a "round table" or realistically "round email" process.

just my 2 cents on leigh's comments tongue.gif


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4ndi
post Feb 19 2014, 06:30 PM
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Was my first arc and it was a good experience. Venue got very hot, but guess there is just so much u can do by 40° ^^.
Really loved the mission briefing and thanks to everyone who put so much effort into this. Really liked some of the custom missions, always a fan of this if a to alters the standard missions smile.gif.

But..
QUOTE(difsta @ Feb 18 2014, 12:53 PM) *

I loved my first arc! I just felt that the entire weekend was rushed... 2hrs for a 1350 point game is a stretch in 6th ed, throw in that a HUGE chunk of it was spent on the player briefing, getting to your tables, etc. I would be surprised if most players got even 1.5hrs on their games.

This is the biggest drawback for me, leaves a very bad taste in my mouth and the reason why I probably won't spent hundreds of dollar to fly to arc again. Except game one (I Prob just didn't realised the time issue ^^), every game I had to rush through/worry about time and that just makes it not enjoyable.
It might be just me but, 2 hrs game time incl finding ur opponent, set up the game etc just isn't long enough.

Thanks to the TO for organising the event and thanks to the guy again who gave me a lift to the airport.

P. S. It was my first arc and from what I heared it was more like a Fluff/fun tournament in the past... I was very surprised to see that many riptides and wrightsknights blink.gif


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BearPowers
post Feb 19 2014, 09:17 PM
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Hey, event was great. My first Arc since 2008 and I can say I am glad to be gaming again! Anywho, feedback:

Venue Feedback

Brilliant, much better than Collingwood. Ample parking and for me, living in Reservoir, very convenient.

Catering Feedback

Food was brilliant.

Mission Feedback

Missions were honestly up and down. Some were memorable while others were a bit of a let down. The random effects of the first game kind of screwed me around as I immobilised 3 tanks in one turn and it sort of wrecked any momentum I was trying to build.

We also need more time! On the first day, I only finished my third game before the clock went off. It was always so tight and the looming threat of "losing points" made me rush and cost me a win as I wasn't paying attention and forgot I had moved models up to an objective to claim it but due to time constraints had just said "they're there" and moved onto our last game turn.

But they were for the most part enjoyable. The random missions is always the best part of Arc!

Scoring System Feedback

No complaints.

Painting Feedback

I was unaware that I had to pull out everything and essentially "sell" my army and it took me a bit to realise this as it was halfway during round 1.

But it made sense and the judge I had explained everything and told me what I needed to improve on.

Stage, screen and "show" Feedback

These were great but the technical issues marred the experience. One simple suggestion is export the video as one long video with 10 second black slugs in between to use as a "pause buffer" as opposed to individual videos which you need to close and open. I regularly do this for my boss when he has presentations and it minimises the amount of technical issues.

Also the music needs to be turned down! I hate to say this as the booming metal is so ARC! But in the enclosed space of the venue, I found I was yelling at my opponent just so we could keep playing. This was generally the "Benny Hill" theme and wouldn't've been a problem but since each round ran so tight, it kept happening.

Other Feedback

Sorry for sounding so whiney but it was genuinely a great weekend! Everyone involved should be proud of themselves. Bring on Arc2015!
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Will_S
post Feb 19 2014, 10:28 PM
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Venue Feedback:
Venue was well set out with a decent amount of room between tables considering how many were actually in the room.

Catering Feedback:
Excellent job done by the canteen staff, though as mentioned previously getting people to go out and get grub early would have made things easier day 1.

Mission Feedback:
Missions were not as radical as I was expecting though most played out fairly evenly for me. As other people have mentioned I prefer being able to play for Secondaries as part of the primary mission rather than just having them as bonus points.


Scoring System Feedback:
No issues here.

Painting Feedback:
With a 148 armies to score I know it is difficult to get it them all done. Something to think about? From my memory we did not start mission one until past 10am on the first day. If we are going to have our armies out and on display for 2 hours (8am - 10am) on the first day then there is the possibility of getting as much of the scoring out of the way then. Everyone's standing around not doing a great deal anyway?

If we know that we are going to get scored and see a judge hovering over our models, clipboard in hand it cannot be too difficult to make bee line towards them and have a quick chat about our armies!

Stage, screen and "show" Feedback:
Fairly well done and I admire the effort put into making it. I think the suggestion of making them into videos is gold rather than just using power point. However, having to watch a video, get a rundown of the same thing from the TO, question time and then a mission sheet? It was way too time heavy and I really felt like running behind time was made out to be the players fault when I think in that aspect it wasn't.

I only had one game that went to turn 5, all my other games finished after both players had their turn 3. That really sucked. If you have the video that is fine, but skip the readout and go straight to questions and possibly have someone hand out mission sheets whilst the video is playing. If people read it whilst watching the vid they may not ask so many questions and time should be saved overall.

Other Feedback
I did also notice the issue with the music being too loud and a big thanks to Ben for making an effort to turn down the Benny Hill music on day 2 after I mentioned it too him. I would suggest doing the same for the music at the start of each mission. It's impossible to be fast or concise when you can't hear the person standing next to you.
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