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> Geelong Heresy 2014 FAQ thread, Them new edition woes
difsta
post Oct 9 2014, 03:49 PM
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QUOTE(Durkah @ Oct 9 2014, 04:14 PM) *

All other editions you have to maintain coherency when assault. Specially if you want to multiple assault...

actually this is not the case. For at least the last 3 editions (5th-7th) it has been the same. Few words here and there changed, but basically the same.


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Durkah
post Oct 9 2014, 03:50 PM
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QUOTE(difsta @ Oct 9 2014, 04:49 PM) *

actually this is not the case. For at least the last 3 editions (5th-7th) it has been the same. Few words here and there changed, but basically the same.

5th was the same. To multi charge you had to keep coherency. Hence so many people didn't know how to make it work. You had to charge models in a specific order and block combat to other models in the unit.


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mr tickles
post Oct 9 2014, 05:47 PM
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i've got a bunch of questions (mostly eldar-related) i've sent in to GW with no reply, so i guess i'll throw them up here.

Do the split abilities of each 'Rune of Battle' count as the same or different psychic power in regards to the restriction about not being able to use the same psychic power more than once per turn? For example, could a Spirtseer attempt to cast both Conceal and Reveal in the same turn?

Can the Disarming Strike Exarch Power affect Tyranid close combat biomorphs at all?

Is Crushing Blow a modifier to the base profile of the model (like a Thunderwolf Mount is in the SW codex), thereby being added before doubling the model's Strength via a Scorpion's Claw? Or in other words, if a model is normally S3 and has both Crushing Blow and a Scorpion's Claw does it strike at S7 or S8?

(main rulebook question) In regards to Illic Nightspear, is an IC with infiltrate allowed to join a unit that doesn't have Infiltrate allowing them all to Infiltrate together during deployment? i know you can't put a character in an infiltrating unit, but can you do it the other way around?

Can Illic Nightspear's 'Walker of the Hidden Path' allow him to deploy directly into base contact with an enemy model, and if so, does this mean he starts the game locked in combat?

Can a Warlock Council be taken at all as part of an allied detachment?

Is the Wave Serpent's Serpent Shield a weapon that can be destroyed by a 'weapon destroyed' damage result?

(telepathy) does the psychic power "psychic shriek" affect a unit's modified, or unmodified leadership?



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jimjimjimmyjim
post Oct 9 2014, 06:59 PM
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Wow some awesome questions! Many I hadn't thought of before!


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souljacker
post Oct 9 2014, 11:51 PM
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I'd say no for Infiltrating into base contact. You only ever make base contact during assault moves. You are not making an assault move when deploying. The line about 'regardless of enemy proximity' is referring to 12" out of LOS, 18" with LOS deployment restriction.

As far as an IC with Infiltrate joining a unit and conferring it, that is fine.

Infiltrating units only need 1 model to have it for that to work. IC's without Infiltrate joining other units with Infiltrate are an exception.

The Runes of Battle are the same spells.
'When using one of these psychic powers, choose which ability the psyker is attempting before making the test'
That implies - Choose a power (spell number 0 fir eg), you then choose which mode. Now you cannot select that power again that turn, as you already made that first step.

Also, Warlocks are only level 1, so of course there is the whole 'How many casts per Mastery Level' thing to consider.

Warlock councils are only chosen as part of a Primary detachment. So no allied council.

This post has been edited by souljacker: Oct 10 2014, 12:03 AM


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damnitsham
post Oct 10 2014, 09:47 AM
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QUOTE(Durkah @ Oct 9 2014, 04:50 PM) *

5th was the same. To multi charge you had to keep coherency. Hence so many people didn't know how to make it work. You had to charge models in a specific order and block combat to other models in the unit.


The quote regarding being Out of Coherency (and attempting to regain coherency in the following Movement Phase) has remained the same in 4th, 5th and 6th ed books.

I agree entirely with Multiple Combats, and remember the time we discussed it back in 5th or 6th. The distinction I am making between the three situations is as follows:

1. The unit that has lost coherency due to overwatch:
This is an involuntary loss of coherency due to taking casualties from incoming enemy fire. As long as the unit attempts to regain coherency as soon as possible this is fine.

2. Only the first few jump assault models can make it over a vehicle, leaving the rest of the unit out of coherency:
The first compulsory initial charger move is made, with everyone else moving as close as possible, albeit getting broken up and losing unit coherency. The Failed Charge condition is not met, therefore the charge is successful.

3. A unit declares a Multiple Combat charge, and ends up with models out of coherency due to the distance between the two enemy units:
In this situation, you are deliberately moving a charging model out of unit coherency, which is disallowed. In the previous examples, the resulting out of coherency condition is reached unintentionally, after the initial charger is placed, with every attempt made to maintain coherency.


I hope this clarifies the matter. I'll agree that example two is a tricky one, but we'll go with a consistent ruling over the weekend one way or the other, and I find the above explanation makes sense to me. If we ruled the other way on point two, it would result in having to return already placed models back to their starting point, which is unwieldy, especially if you get 19/20 gargoyles over the tank!

Would love to see an official FAQ on this.
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damnitsham
post Oct 10 2014, 10:18 AM
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QUOTE(mr tickles @ Oct 9 2014, 06:47 PM) *

Do the split abilities of each 'Rune of Battle' count as the same or different psychic power in regards to the restriction about not being able to use the same psychic power more than once per turn? For example, could a Spirtseer attempt to cast both Conceal and Reveal in the same turn?


I'd say no, simply due to the distinction made at the top of p.70 in the Eldar codex, where each power has two separate abilities. If they described each roll as two powers, that would be different.


QUOTE(mr tickles @ Oct 9 2014, 06:47 PM) *

Can the Disarming Strike Exarch Power affect Tyranid close combat biomorphs at all?


Tyranid weapons count as melee weapons, and as such are affected by the power. Assume the exarch is pinning down the arm or some other martial trickery wink.gif


QUOTE(mr tickles @ Oct 9 2014, 06:47 PM) *

Is Crushing Blow a modifier to the base profile of the model (like a Thunderwolf Mount is in the SW codex), thereby being added before doubling the model's Strength via a Scorpion's Claw? Or in other words, if a model is normally S3 and has both Crushing Blow and a Scorpion's Claw does it strike at S7 or S8?


Strike at S7. Crushing blow grants +1S (a modifier), whereas the TW mount "increases their Strength characteristic by 1" (as written). If the TW mount was described as +1S then they would be the same as crushing blow.


QUOTE(mr tickles @ Oct 9 2014, 06:47 PM) *

(main rulebook question) In regards to Illic Nightspear, is an IC with infiltrate allowed to join a unit that doesn't have Infiltrate allowing them all to Infiltrate together during deployment? i know you can't put a character in an infiltrating unit, but can you do it the other way around?

Can Illic Nightspear's 'Walker of the Hidden Path' allow him to deploy directly into base contact with an enemy model, and if so, does this mean he starts the game locked in combat?


I'd say that all models would need the infiltrate rule if they were to infiltrate together.

The only restriction is moving within 1", not deploying within 1". So technically yes you can deploy Illic in base contact, and will count as locked in combat accordingly.


QUOTE(mr tickles @ Oct 9 2014, 06:47 PM) *

Can a Warlock Council be taken at all as part of an allied detachment?


Only your Primary Detachment may include a Warlock Council. If you include a second Combined Arms detachment, they will not have access to a Warlock Council either.


QUOTE(mr tickles @ Oct 9 2014, 06:47 PM) *

Is the Wave Serpent's Serpent Shield a weapon that can be destroyed by a 'weapon destroyed' damage result?


The Serpent Shield counts as Eldar Vehicle Equipment, albeit equipment that can be fired. It is not a weapon, so is unable to be affected by Weapon Destroyed.


QUOTE(mr tickles @ Oct 9 2014, 06:47 PM) *

(telepathy) does the psychic power "psychic shriek" affect a unit's modified, or unmodified leadership?


Modified leadership, so you can Terrify followed by Shriek for example wink.gif
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Durkah
post Oct 10 2014, 11:25 AM
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QUOTE(damnitsham @ Oct 10 2014, 10:47 AM) *

The quote regarding being Out of Coherency (and attempting to regain coherency in the following Movement Phase) has remained the same in 4th, 5th and 6th ed books.

I agree entirely with Multiple Combats, and remember the time we discussed it back in 5th or 6th. The distinction I am making between the three situations is as follows:

1. The unit that has lost coherency due to overwatch:
This is an involuntary loss of coherency due to taking casualties from incoming enemy fire. As long as the unit attempts to regain coherency as soon as possible this is fine.

2. Only the first few jump assault models can make it over a vehicle, leaving the rest of the unit out of coherency:
The first compulsory initial charger move is made, with everyone else moving as close as possible, albeit getting broken up and losing unit coherency. The Failed Charge condition is not met, therefore the charge is successful.

3. A unit declares a Multiple Combat charge, and ends up with models out of coherency due to the distance between the two enemy units:
In this situation, you are deliberately moving a charging model out of unit coherency, which is disallowed. In the previous examples, the resulting out of coherency condition is reached unintentionally, after the initial charger is placed, with every attempt made to maintain coherency.
I hope this clarifies the matter. I'll agree that example two is a tricky one, but we'll go with a consistent ruling over the weekend one way or the other, and I find the above explanation makes sense to me. If we ruled the other way on point two, it would result in having to return already placed models back to their starting point, which is unwieldy, especially if you get 19/20 gargoyles over the tank!

Would love to see an official FAQ on this.



So, in the movement phase I can move my unit out of coherency because next turn I plan on moving them back into coherency? I could spread a jetbike squad over 6 objectives that are 48inches apart. As long as next turn I resolve to place them back into coherency? Yes, I am moving them out of coherency. But I plan on next turn putting them back into coherency. Its like charging, I can no longer meet coherency, but I still am moving them even though I cannot meet the requirements.

Making a charge that you cannot move all models into coherency is a failed charge. You are voluntarily moving those models after the overwatch into a position of no coherency. One that they can never meet because of intervening models. Likewise it makes no sense that say the only thing that can fit, being a IC. Could look out sir a hit from a power fist or TH onto a model behind a tank 6" away. Yes. The rules allow the LOS to happen... but it honestly makes no sense that a guy behind a tank can dive in the way of the IC to take the blow for him if he can't even make it to the combat.

I would say if its a open field, nothing blocking the two units. I cop overwatch. I loose 6 models because of LOS. I roll a 12 for my charge. The models behind the IC can still make coherency. I would call that charge ok. But if I rolled a 7" charge, and none of the other models could make coherency I would say that would be a failed charge...

Anyway, seems to be a crappy rule either way. They haven't really thought about it. Perhaps email GW HQ and ask them and see what they say?

This post has been edited by Durkah: Oct 10 2014, 11:30 AM


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QUOTE(esrun @ Feb 8 2012, 04:53 PM) *
DND = do not disturb

I always play this especially while fapping.


Anthony Z:

"I don't understand why you take morale tests from dangerous terrain. Did you see what that rock did to Jim, quick run"

"######e tourney... Better alternative to going is masturbating with sand paper"

QUOTE(Elliot.Yung @ May 12 2013, 09:23 PM) *
You know your rule knowledge is bad when Shaun Hogan is correcting you :P

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jimjimjimmyjim
post Oct 10 2014, 01:44 PM
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How many warlocks from a warlock council can be attached to the listed units that they can attach too?


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souljacker
post Oct 10 2014, 02:06 PM
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1 per unit.


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DionDoes
post Oct 10 2014, 04:45 PM
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Have to say dont really agree with that
You cant move out of coherency voluntary completing the charge would result in you doing so
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jimjimjimmyjim
post Oct 10 2014, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE(souljacker @ Oct 10 2014, 03:06 PM) *

1 per unit.

It doesn't say that tho


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DionDoes
post Oct 10 2014, 05:52 PM
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It says it in the unit entry jim. Just under the profiles from memory.
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souljacker
post Oct 10 2014, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE(jimjimjimmyjim @ Oct 10 2014, 05:47 PM) *

It doesn't say that tho



Yes. It does.

'...bl;ah blah blah...Any warlock in the council may be split off from this unit and assigned to lead a different unit...blah blah... Only one Warlock can join each unit in this manner. Any models that do not do this remain part of the Warlock Council.'

*page 95 eDex* as part of the army entry.

This post has been edited by souljacker: Oct 10 2014, 05:53 PM


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Winning games of Warhammer 40k is overrated.

Every now and again my dice rolling resembles a splash of brilliance in an otherwise vast ocean of failure.

"The Exorcist shall be somber, for he is privy to much. His soul shall burn brighter than a star, for he fights the creatures of darkness. His faith shall be as adamantium, for it shall be tested many a time. His mind shall be clear, for his foes will seek to cloud it. His purpose shall be without question, for he shall perform it for the whole of his life."
~ Chapter Master Abraham Daimio (deceased)

...It's likely that my gaming philosophy is different to yours, and I understand yours. The issue is with you...

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Durkah
post Oct 10 2014, 07:32 PM
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Its different to the royal court from necrons Jim.


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QUOTE(esrun @ Feb 8 2012, 04:53 PM) *
DND = do not disturb

I always play this especially while fapping.


Anthony Z:

"I don't understand why you take morale tests from dangerous terrain. Did you see what that rock did to Jim, quick run"

"######e tourney... Better alternative to going is masturbating with sand paper"

QUOTE(Elliot.Yung @ May 12 2013, 09:23 PM) *
You know your rule knowledge is bad when Shaun Hogan is correcting you :P

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jimjimjimmyjim
post Oct 10 2014, 07:47 PM
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Ahhh

Ok


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ru486baby
post Oct 10 2014, 10:32 PM
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QUOTE(damnitsham @ Oct 10 2014, 09:48 AM) *

The only restriction is moving within 1", not deploying within 1". So technically yes you can deploy Illic in base contact, and will count as locked in combat accordingly.


First to Clarify , Illic Nightspear's special infiltrate rule doesn't confer to a unit ( like tank hunter of stubborn for an example) So while he may be placed into base to base with an enemy unit, any unit he has infiltrated with has to still obey the standard infiltrate rule, correct?



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DionDoes
post Oct 10 2014, 10:50 PM
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True, he gives the unit infiltrate but only he can deploy within 12" as thats not a rule passed to another unit.
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jimjimjimmyjim
post Oct 10 2014, 10:53 PM
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The only time that would be useful is to hold up a mek gunz battery!

Other than this, what is the purpose of this ruling?


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post Oct 13 2014, 08:40 PM
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Can you lookout sir stomps?
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