Feedback thread - Let us know what you think Options

[Nzarra]

Well a lot of rage on this site

Really - I am not seeing it - the rage I was reading was on your blog

majority of your models painted to at least 3 colors & is the army fully painted (3 colors and WYSIWG)”. I haven’t found anyone at the tournament, on the blog or here who has disagreed with that

I did not see your army (or if I did do not know which it was) but I am confused how you believe an army that by your own admission had a number of unfinished gaunts can be considered 'fully painted' . Even if those Gaunts were tervigon spawners they are still part of the army and should be judged as such. Thats your call when you decide to take a Tervigon. Luke Jenson did and managed to have his masses of generaters all done to exactly the same standard as the rest of his army. As a TO I don't know about the rest of the marks (not having seen it) but I would not have given the 3 marks for fully painted either. Would have also had trouble with basing marks if some of basing was unfinished or just black bases.

Biggest problem I had with your 'thoughts' is you admit you knew the hobby component before the event, still choose to enter and then rage about the hobby component. Its a bit like choosing to go watch a movie when you have read the book and then complain about the storyline.

This post has been edited by Nzarra: Jul 28 2010, 07:17 AM

[Satmaka]

I still remember fondly my game with Mr Satmaka, by far one of the most crazy and intense games that I've ever played as through each of our turns who I thought had the upper hand kept changing over and over again. Great bloody game, that said, all the games I had on the weekend were amazing.

Cheers buddy, I enjoyed our game as well, it was close but I was relying too much on one big mob of 30 boys spread out over 2 objectives which you seer council wiped off quite promptly. I had a blast playing your gorgeous army and I will work out that bit of Satmaka Kryptonite known as Eldars!

As far as the tournament goes, I throughoughly enjoyed myself all weekend. I thought all the missions were cool (Love the "Choose your own Adventure" though I agree some new missions will be cool to breathe some life into it) I thought the sports system was really cool as it was really easy to get full marks but you had to have an awesome game to get those extras. I was happy with my paint score, I was a bit miffed that out of all the models he picked up, he chose one of my not-so-great boyz, though I think that was deliberate and looking at Jensen's army, even his spare gaunts were goregeous.

I agree with Adam J from Area 37, the clubs should co-ordinate and organise terrain, a few weeks before the event so we can transport it to the venue and set up themed tables. This tournament is getting bigger and bigger it seems, and we're getting more interstaters coming (even in the open) so I think us NSWers should step up our terrain. I am endeavouring to actually paint up mine for next year, and get some crazy LOS blocking trees and buildings happening. Clubs and individuals should start thinking about setting up specific tables set to specific themes and perhaps could be given a prize for best table. I guess my only complaint is that I didn't get to play on that orky themed table just cause it was doused in awesome sauce!

Lookin forward to next year.

[adreal]

hey alex, on the subject of gumby's if you need one for next year im willing to put my hand up, i mainly go to tournie's to play new people and saterday night shenanigans, so yeah, i'de be keen to help out in that way if you need one

[Spakka]

I guess my only complaint is that I didn't get to play on that orky themed table just cause it was doused in awesome sauce!

Are you talking about this one?


If so, my brother was the one who made that set and he'll appreciate the positive feedback. We mainly use it for Gorkamorka games. We'll definitely be bringing it along again next year, along with much more cool stuff like it.

[Loriness]

Really - I am not seeing it - the rage I was reading was on your blog
I did not see your army (or if I did do not know which it was) but I am confused how you believe an army that by your own admission had a number of unfinished gaunts can be considered 'fully painted' . Even if those Gaunts were tervigon spawners they are still part of the army and should be judged as such. Thats your call when you decide to take a Tervigon. Luke Jenson did and managed to have his masses of generaters all done to exactly the same standard as the rest of his army. As a TO I don't know about the rest of the marks (not having seen it) but I would not have given the 3 marks for fully painted either. Would have also had trouble with basing marks if some of basing was unfinished or just black bases.

Biggest problem I had with your 'thoughts' is you admit you knew the hobby component before the event, still choose to enter and then rage about the hobby component. Its a bit like choosing to go watch a movie when you have read the book and then complain about the storyline.

Knowing about it does not mean you have to like it or does not want to change it in the future. Death and Taxes comes to mind.
He has his opinion and his believe, he just want change to happen.

As for painting, I think what we understand as 3 colour + basing, is a little different from what he though. He will have time to improve the models as time goes. Kirby, PM Alex and see where you loose points and improve on it next time.

Just because someone has a different opinion that is out of your norm, does not mean we should ignore or poo poo it. Listen and see what could be improved.

[Starfire]

I must admit to being surprised when Alex said he couldn't tell what Kirby's commander was. It was the only Hive Tyrant on the table..

[Reunion-Round]

As I said earlier, I need about 5 minutes per gamer.

Took over half an hour between me and Damien to do both of us.

This post has been edited by Valkyrie: Jul 28 2010, 11:42 AM

[Reunion-Round]

Also on the note of terrain while i'm at it.

One of the biggest advantages my army could have in a game is LoS blocking terrain.

I had two games where this was an issue. one game I didn't get the chance to launch my Deathstrikes anyway (Krey killed them in his turn 2 before mine) and the other deployment favored me anyway.

I think terrain was fairly evenly spread. the draw just had it that some people never got the mix.


Tho my sister had conscripted herself to making terrain for us Orange boys, with some fun LoS blocking cyber fences which we hadn't bothered to paint, a massive stone henge, forest sections, buildings and all manner of fun stuff, as well as fix up some of our existing terrain.



This post has been edited by Valkyrie: Jul 28 2010, 11:47 AM

[Loriness]

I guess some will take more than others, specially if your work is extreemly good.
Marking some armies during the presentation time (at the start of the second day) would be an option to minimise interference. Otherwise, after game 3 (end of the first day) could also be utilise, as people finished at different time.

[MarkC]

Further information from the feedback forms, in particular with respect to the missions ...

Breakthrough

90% of the players rated this mission okay or better. There was a clear result in 93% of the games.


Kill Points

Kill Points had 93% approval this year, compared to only 80% approval in 2009 when the first mission was Kill Points seeded by starting kill points. Does this mean that players like the meta-game balanced by a kill points mission without seeding?

100% of the games in High Lords and 79% of the games in the Open event had a clear winner in this mission.


Capture and Control

Capture and Control at 84% was less popular than the 2009 mission “Capture the flag” which had a 97% approval rating. “Capture the flag” was a Capture and Control mission where your opponent’s objective was worth more than your own.

Checking the results in Overlord, 84% of the games in High Lords and 71% of the games in the Open had a result iin this mission.


Secret Orders

Secret Orders was rated okay or better by 75% of the players. 10% of the players didn't like it, and 15% thought that it shouldn't be used at a tournament.

Checking the results in Overlord, 63% of the games in High Lords and 79% of the games in the Open had a result in the Secret Orders mission (ie primary mission was a win/loss rather than a draw).

"Protect the Precious" (keep enemy out of 6" zone around your home objective) was the primary objective for 45% of the players, and the secondary objective for another 17%.

The most common mix was Protect the Precious primary and Annihilate secondary mission.

The least common objective was Blood, with only 3% of the players choosing this as their primary mission and 10% choosing this as their secondary mission.

With 75% approval, the Secret Orders mission has potential but it definitely needs tweaking. Obviously, Protect the Precious was still considered the easiest mission despite us making it 6" radius contesting zone.


Sieze Ground

Was the most popular mission with 97% approval. 88% of the games had a clear result in this mission.


Regards

Mark C

[Vreith]

In regards to the precious, 6" was fine, just needed to at least be 8-12" from the table edge/corner.

Just to easy to form a solid wall in the corner etc.

As he seemed to have more kill points than me i elected that as no1
and ended up being 1" away from the 6", but i still achieved kill points... = draw

but was well played none the less and great fun as my weird boy decided to teleport a whole squad of boyz to the other side of the table....

This post has been edited by Vreith: Jul 28 2010, 03:13 PM

[Loriness]

In regards to the precious, 6" was fine, just needed to at least be 8-12" from the table edge/corner.

Just to easy to form a solid wall in the corner etc.

As he seemed to have more kill points than me i elected that as no1
and ended up being 1" away from the 6", but i still achieved kill points... = draw

but was well played none the less and great fun as my weird boy decided to teleport a whole squad of boyz to the other side of the table....

Bit hard to be 12" off board edge when you have to place it in your DZ in a pitch battle.
Maybe just needs to be 12" off board edge and not in DZ. But this will push the mission towards capture 5 objectives.
Victorians had played similar mission, see what their feedback was like?

[ArchonCryx]

Nzarra said this part well:

.." As a TO I don't know about the rest of the marks (not having seen it) but I would not have given the 3 marks for fully painted either. Would have also had trouble with basing marks if some of basing was unfinished or just black bases."
---


Kirby, The way it reads you make it sound like I gave out about 6 prizes, some of them wrong, and don't know how to mark painting scores when I marked it with you.

The time to tell me you disagree with my paint score is *when I am marking it*

I saw your blog estimate - if your army was finished to the standard of your good stuff then that would be at least correct in overall, however you miss the detail..

The reason there is 2 points for categories like details is to reward ppl for picking out details like eyes, any toxin sacs, or gun decorations or grenades etc with 1 pt. The extra point is when they make an extra effort on those details, the eyes being an excellent example. Most of us pick out eyes, so long as they are neat, you get the point. But if it's "omigod, he's lensed the eyes as well as picking them out" it's extra effort, and so gets the second point. Believe me, there were armies that passed this test and got the extra point.

So each of those sections where you assume 2points, you probably only get 1 point.

SOund too harsh to you? At least the whole room was being marked the same way. *Everyone* has the opportunity to query my scoring. I specifically asked in the players pack (which despite your snide remarks is available on our website) for people to be prepared top *sell * their army painting to me. I even suggested writing down a point by point argument based on the guidelines - the same ones I used when scoring your painting - and showing it to me when scoring painting.

As for this other nonsense about my paint scoring interrupting your game - since unch was next you were welcome tyo pointy out to me that I had held you up and could you have some extra time? I'd have freely granted your request especially if opponent is open to the suggestion.

So at least twice you had the chance to correct these "problems" yourself. Instead of having some gumption to ask me properly - hey Alex, I wasn't expecting that, I was thinking more like a 24 or whatever you said in the blog. You could have tried to catch me at lunch if timing was an issue, simply said - can I speak to you after the game.

Other people actually requested I don't mark their painting due to time issues, you might have asked similarly, no one mentioned to me you were only on turn 4.

And even after I "held you up" you had a chance to say "hey - we need more time"

you did not get 12 pts from the 1st two questions. Sure you got 6pts for question 1,but on question 2 I gave you 3/6 because the army wasn't "fully painted".

I can't reward the great basework on your bases on the centrepieces if the bases on your gant bases aren't all even textured. so no extra for basing

pretty sure I did give the full 4 pts for conversions.

I won't generally won't give discretionary points to unfinished armies. If finished there'd be at least 3pts there too, bc I did like the overall army.

This post has been edited by ArchonCryx: Jul 28 2010, 03:46 PM

[Vreith]

Bit hard to be 12" off board edge when you have to place it in your DZ in a pitch battle.
Maybe just needs to be 12" off board edge and not in DZ. But this will push the mission towards capture 5 objectives.
Victorians had played similar mission, see what their feedback was like?

Yes i know that is true, like you said or somthing similar, good idea, just needs some tweak

This post has been edited by Vreith: Jul 28 2010, 03:37 PM

[Buddha]

Stuff.

Honestly, good stuff Alex, clear and reasonable decisions behind the army painting. Good to see a judge backing his decisions with solid thought.

[trigger happy]

the problem with judge marked painting is that at some stage you will have to hold up games. it is impossible to go through and mark that many armies in such a short period of time like players choice especially when there are other things to organise at the start of the day. as for staying back after all the games have finished and marking it then, do people think that the TO has not given up enough of their time in organising a tourny already? it is a very difficult thing to try and squeeze in as well as running around answering rules questions, and until someone has actually tried to do all this then perhaps they should not criticize the people who have.

for what it's worth Alex i thought both yourself and Mark done a fantastic job over the weekend, and would also like to take this opportunity to thank Marks wife for giving up her weekend to help as well.

[ArchonCryx]

I must admit to being surprised when Alex said he couldn't tell what Kirby's commander was. It was the only Hive Tyrant on the table..

From, the persective of someone who might not know one monster from another, there was little to identify the HT from the other monsters is what was meant by that comment. A Tervigon can be HQ.

[Ordzmek]

Just on the objectives for Secret Orders, I think saying 'Anywhere in your deployment zone' is something that needs to be looked at because really it was too easy to just throw it into the back corner. I didn't because I didn't feel it sportsmanlike, but some people would think differently. 12" is a bit too far forward, so maybe 'Place your objective in your deployment zone, at least 6" away from any edge' is a suitable restriction? It still gives you a decent area to put it in and it also lets you put some decent forces around it.

[rat of vengence]

In regards to the precious, 6" was fine, just needed to at least be 8-12" from the table edge/corner.

Just to easy to form a solid wall in the corner etc.

As he seemed to have more kill points than me i elected that as no1
and ended up being 1" away from the 6", but i still achieved kill points... = draw

but was well played none the less and great fun as my weird boy decided to teleport a whole squad of boyz to the other side of the table....

I fully agree, even though being able to put my objective in the corner was the only thing that saved my (and your 1" consolidate roll ) from your rampaging orks!
Make the objective a tad more reachable would make it less an auto pick.

Not complaining, loved the variety of missions

RoV

[ArchonCryx]

Yeah I like the idea of the Precious needing to be >6" from a board edge.

Of course this year I was rather conservative with the choices and the attle Missions only came out 2 weeks before we made the decisions on what missions Lord would use - we were aiming for simpler missions that gave an overall balanmce to the event so it was not the time to experiment by choosing a battle mission. However by next year I will have had a chance not only to play a few more battle missions but also see others using them in tournaments, and will no doubt test them at Cryx cup to see if it can work before committing Lords to using some battle missions. But assuming we choose wisely, and pre test our assumptions with a live tournament run, expect there to be more diversity in next years misssions, including some battle missions.

I like the choose your own adventure concept, so am keen to retain that, but open to including more options. I deliberately made "Blood" excessive so it wasn't easy to simply pick KPs and annihilation, if you were going to do that you really needed to do so well!

So we'll be looking to retain that kind of internal balance, so there aren't any easy paths, and that includes pushing the precious more into the playing area!