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> SA 40k Masters - Which army do you want or not??, Whats your poison?
Whats your poison?
Which army would you MOST like to use?
Space Marines [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]
Space Wolves [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]
Blood Angels [ 2 ] ** [6.90%]
Grey Knights [ 9 ] ** [31.03%]
Chaos Space Marines [ 2 ] ** [6.90%]
Imperial Guard [ 3 ] ** [10.34%]
Dark Eldar [ 4 ] ** [13.79%]
Eldar [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]
Tyranids [ 3 ] ** [10.34%]
Orks [ 3 ] ** [10.34%]
Which army would you LEAST like to use?
Space Marines [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]
Space Wolves [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]
Blood Angels [ 2 ] ** [6.90%]
Grey Knights [ 2 ] ** [6.90%]
Chaos Space Marines [ 2 ] ** [6.90%]
Imperial Guard [ 1 ] ** [3.45%]
Dark Eldar [ 2 ] ** [6.90%]
Eldar [ 3 ] ** [10.34%]
Tyranids [ 12 ] ** [41.38%]
Orks [ 3 ] ** [10.34%]
Total Votes: 58
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Buddha
post Nov 14 2011, 08:33 AM
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QUOTE(Bane @ Nov 14 2011, 07:38 AM) *

3 votes for people who want to use tyranids now?

This poll just lost all credibility


I'm not so sure about that lol. Really, they might of had experience with the codex and prefer to use it.

Honestly there is only 1 bad match for bugs, and that's the GKs possibly... that's always going to be an issue, but even then its not unwinnable!
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Onehandedorgy
post Nov 14 2011, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE(Bane @ Nov 14 2011, 06:38 AM) *

3 votes for people who want to use tyranids now?

This poll just lost all credibility


I like bugs but then i'm biased. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(Buddha @ Nov 14 2011, 08:33 AM) *

I'm not so sure about that lol. Really, they might of had experience with the codex and prefer to use it.

Honestly there is only 1 bad match for bugs, and that's the GKs possibly... that's always going to be an issue, but even then its not unwinnable!


Still don't understand why people think grey knights have a good match up against bugs. Its actually one of the games that grey knights struggle. Admittedly though it does come back to player ability but still....


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quin
post Nov 14 2011, 05:57 PM
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QUOTE(Onehandedorgy @ Nov 14 2011, 04:33 PM) *

I like bugs but then i'm biased. biggrin.gif
Still don't understand why people think grey knights have a good match up against bugs. Its actually one of the games that grey knights struggle. Admittedly though it does come back to player ability but still....


I agree, of the 9 possible matchups the GK one is a 50/50 of equal skill. Although they get 2 razors with hvy bolters to neuter with as well.
The lack of long rang AP 1/2/3 too knock the tyrant out is a strength, it is potentially possible for the HT to get his save + FNP and lead a victory. Especially as the 2x dreadnoughts will not win the game for them unless its KP's, which case they can castle and lets see the bugs crack that.

Now the other 7 armies (not so much orks) have very effective ways of taking the tyrant out at range/very quickly.
I am very biased towards bugs, but the fact this list has nothing *effective* reaching past 24" and purely relying on an opponents bad dice rolling to win is why this list is very uncompetitive this time.
I still cannot get over no toxin sacs on the stealers.

This post has been edited by quin: Nov 14 2011, 05:58 PM


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Buddha
post Nov 14 2011, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE(quin @ Nov 14 2011, 06:57 PM) *

I agree, of the 9 possible matchups the GK one is a 50/50 of equal skill. Although they get 2 razors with hvy bolters to neuter with as well.
The lack of long rang AP 1/2/3 too knock the tyrant out is a strength, it is potentially possible for the HT to get his save + FNP and lead a victory. Especially as the 2x dreadnoughts will not win the game for them unless its KP's, which case they can castle and lets see the bugs crack that.

Now the other 7 armies (not so much orks) have very effective ways of taking the tyrant out at range/very quickly.
I am very biased towards bugs, but the fact this list has nothing *effective* reaching past 24" and purely relying on an opponents bad dice rolling to win is why this list is very uncompetitive this time.
I still cannot get over no toxin sacs on the stealers.


Do you ever Deep Strike your Tyrant? tbh, I think thats quite a valid tactic with this list.

The thing is, apart from HVC's and Tyrannofex's, what do bugs have >24" for AT??
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quin
post Nov 14 2011, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE(Buddha @ Nov 14 2011, 06:35 PM) *

Do you ever Deep Strike your Tyrant? tbh, I think thats quite a valid tactic with this list.

The thing is, apart from HVC's and Tyrannofex's, what do bugs have >24" for AT??



No

This post has been edited by quin: Nov 14 2011, 10:31 PM


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2012 - Complete my space vampires in razorbacks
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“The winner of the game is the player who makes the next-to-last mistake” (Savielly Tartakover)
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trigger happy
post Nov 15 2011, 05:56 PM
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QUOTE(quin @ Nov 14 2011, 05:57 PM) *


The lack of long rang AP 1/2/3 too knock the tyrant out is a strength, it is potentially possible for the HT to get his save + FNP and lead a victory.



FNP on the tyrant? it's not the last choice of things i would put FNP on in this list but it's not far off either.
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J.McGowan
post Nov 15 2011, 08:03 PM
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i thought this was a masters event. instead of looking at what some armies have and and dont have, look at what they do and what you can do with it. biggrin.gif


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Bane
post Nov 16 2011, 08:33 AM
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or you can think of it this way, the army lists are reconstructed by the organises so as to eliminate army choice as a factor.

However many see this goal as having failed with the tyrant list and the grey knights list, instead of interesting armies that are different and on about the same power level we have lists above and below the general field compared to the rest of the lists at the tournament. He who draws the grey knights will have an advantage, he who draws the tyranids a disadvantage.

Not exactly the best thing for a masters event.

I would suggest that next year we get the list done ahead of time and allow for new models to be purchased and painted, that way its not lack of models that lead to some lists being stronger than others.

Sure a good player will make up for the lists shortcomings, but I thought the idea with the masters is all 10 players are good.


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Nzarra
post Nov 16 2011, 09:36 AM
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Seeing a fair bit of glass half empty, bit disappointed.

Each army has for votes and each has against - note also the question was not which is the worst list - people may have for example clicked Nids as least prefered due to unfamiliarity rather than 'its a bad list' such as neil mentioned.

I don't think the Nid list is as weak as some think, I also don't think the GK is as strong as some think. Last year I drew the orks, before the event no one had rated them one of the top lists yet I managed to not drop a battle point. I have also learnt over many years comparing armies on paper is seldom worth the paper they are printed on.

There are so many factors come into a game of 40k - mission, scenary, opponent, first turn, variable game length, dare I say it luck - all capable of having as much effect as the lists - none of these lists are totally nerfed - sure in some peoples opinions some lists will always be stronger than others.

Give the list builders some credit - all were on the Qld ATC team, all are expert players with thier codexes (and they had experience to cover all 10 codexes we provided) Josh has managed to win large events with Necrons, Sisters and Tyranids so that demonstrates the player can be greater than the codex.

Happy with whatever I draw, looking forward to a bit of fun - I have all the rest of the year to try to win events with lists I build - I enjoy the cahllange of doing what I can with what I have.

He who draws the GKs will not have an advantage if they have never used them, nor if the matchups and missions do not align. If you go in with the attitude that if I don't draw GKs I'm screwed or the attitude that if I draw Nids I'm screwed you have already defeated yourself mentally, before your opponant even picks up a dice.

This post has been edited by Nzarra: Nov 16 2011, 09:38 AM


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Zidi
post Nov 16 2011, 12:04 PM
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I think Tyranids are the weakest in terms of out right firepower, but i think they have the advantage in troops, which can mean a massive difference between winning and losing missions.

They may not be able to pull massacres off as easily, but i think played well they have an advantage over many armies for objective missions.

The rest are quite balanced i think.

This post has been edited by Zidi: Nov 16 2011, 12:04 PM
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Angmar
post Nov 17 2011, 08:18 PM
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I think I'll wait to see how they go before posting my thoughts about the space wolf list. I also think that mission and scenery will have greater influence on the match ups then the bad choices of each list.
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quin
post Nov 17 2011, 11:04 PM
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I apolagise for calling out the tyranids, but years of exclusive playing in 4th and 5th with them and winning many events of most points value i feel gives me a good view on what works for Well.

Whomever draws them has as much chance as the next guy. As said though they need perfect deployment and wont get big wins, can saturate in objective missions.

Lists cant change now, so might as well get over it and I should finish painting a few models smile.gif


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2012 - Complete my space vampires in razorbacks
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“The winner of the game is the player who makes the next-to-last mistake” (Savielly Tartakover)
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Buddha
post Nov 18 2011, 10:11 AM
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I think Tyranids have a tough gig in the current environment for sure, and I havent lost a game to them for some time, but thats why we are seeing a comp environment here, so hopefully that counters it.

Last year the Tyranids went in as the weakest list, and did do very poorly, but they were piloted by Drew who had never read the Codex in his life. If Alun, or Kris, or Nathan, someone with remotely an idea of what to do with the bug codex from experience, and an agressive play style gets to use this army, I think they will do quite well. Having nearly not AV14 in any other lists, as well as lots of Troops, good screening units, fast units, and the Hive Guard for light AT, should mean they can very well challenge the other lists in this environment.

I can guarantee tables wont be lacking scenery, and missions are pretty standard, they have been released guys, 3 x rule book and 1 x modification/combo.
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neil
post Nov 18 2011, 01:24 PM
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QUOTE(Buddha @ Nov 18 2011, 10:41 AM) *
I think Tyranids have a tough gig in the current environment for sure, and I havent lost a game to them for some time, but thats why we are seeing a comp environment here, so hopefully that counters it.

I've lost to them plenty of times!

Stupid tau grumble grumble. Could kill their tanks real good if they had any grumble grumble.


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Buddha
post Nov 19 2011, 03:27 PM
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As I said in the 40k General Discussion thread:


Laid out the 4 armies I am supplying, the SW, IG, Eldar and Guard.... the Guard army is a mass of infantry!!! pretty impressive looking.
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