2500pt Empire, 'March of Doom' under 8th Options

[arfa]

Arch Lector – War Altar, Van Horstum’s Speculum, Sword of Anti-Heroes, Dawnstone, Dragonhelm, Heavy Armour, Shield– 329pts
Jade Wizard Lord - Lvl 4, Rod of Power, Holy Relic, Potion of Toughness - 305pts
Luthor Huss – 180pts

10x Crossbowmen – 80pts
Detachment – 5x Crossbowmen – 40pts
Detachment – 5x Crossbowmen – 40pts
10x Halberdiers – Musician – 54pts
Detachment - 5x Archers - 40pts

11x Empire Knights - Full Command, Great Weapons, Banner of Eternal Flame - 303pts
5x Pistoliers – musician, champ with repeater pistol – 114pts

21x Flagellants - Prophet of Doom – 220pts
21x Flagellants - Prophet of Doom – 220pts

1x Cannon – 100pts
1x Cannon – 100pts
1x Mortar - 75pts

1x Steam Tank – 300pts

Total – 2500pts

Adapting my 7th-ed list to 8th, looking a bit frail but at the same time a little different. No steadfast blocks because no state troops. How would you all comp this?

Arfa da Grate

[Jimbo81]

it'll work - especially if you play WOC and sacrifice the alter to kill their general / bsb all the while cannon sniping and landing pie templates and crossbow bolts.

I reckon sub the detachments of crossbowmen to handgunners and deploy them forward (avoiding panic when they flee)

Stank and VHS alter with 2 cannons FTW! This is about as hard as you can go with empire but if you're playing lizzies, DE's, deamons, VC's you'll need it.

[N.I.C.K]

2 solid 20-25 flaggies and MSU xbows are definitely a good option for empire. Not sure aboout the rest of the list but each to his own.

[eddyh59]

Will be a real problem if you play Blood & Glory scenario. Basically you are an auto fail with only one banner and general so even if a TO used the same ruling as UK Masters (ie have to loose at least 1 point to break) you are in serious do-do.
I wouldn't have a problem facing it as Skaven have the tools to deal with this list.

My 2c
Ed da Pirate

[arfa]

Ouch you're right there eddy, I hadnt really looked at that scenario. What is the likelihood of playing such a scenario in a tourney? Worth putting a flag in the crossbows? Also out of curiosity what specifically in skaven would really hurt this list? The knights are pretty devastating against the H-Bomb, the cannons against doomwheels/cannons and tank/altar/weight of fire would've hurt the rest of the list I thought.

@Jimbo - I agree with you on the handgunners but Ive kept them as crossbows due to the theme of the army, its more of a witch-hunter army and the handguns I had in there at first just didnt sit right. I was considering dumping the archers as they're a leftover from last editions list (they screened the frenzy of the flagellants, but now that they can test on Ld10 to restrain Im not too concerned about that!). I wrote the 7th ed list for a mate who had come so close to placing with Empire but always stumbled to 4th or 5th at the last minute, but ended up building it for myself lol. Did me well, came 3rd overall and general in Tas States behind Daemons and magic/gunline O&G. Still not sure how the changes will effect the army in the new edition, hopefully life magic will help the list a lot.

Do you think Sword of Heroes is better than Sword of Justice or visa versa? Could also go Sword of Swift Slaying, although thats only really useful for challenges. Also how heavily would you all comp this list?

Arfa da Grate

[eddyh59]

Ouch you're right there eddy, I hadnt really looked at that scenario. What is the likelihood of playing such a scenario in a tourney? Worth putting a flag in the crossbows? Also out of curiosity what specifically in skaven would really hurt this list? The knights are pretty devastating against the H-Bomb, the cannons against doomwheels/cannons and tank/altar/weight of fire would've hurt the rest of the list I thought.

Arfa da Grate

A lot of the tourneys up here are using the BRB scenarios (or slight varients) so at least one game is usually B&G. It is probably one of my favourites as it can be won with guile and cunning by picking suitable target units and throwing everything at them while protecting my banner bearing units as much as possible.

Personally I don't use an A-bomb or Doomwheel which leaves me more points to use elsewhere such as gutter runners popping up behind your lines to take out war machines, a warlord with fellblade to take out the tank/altar or an engineer with the brass orb for the same job only cheaper.
A lot of Skaven magic and war machines/weapon teams ignore armour saves which makes knights very vulnerable.
As to the crossbow units, you have to be able to kill an awful lot of quickly advancing furry bodies before they reach your line and Empire don't put out the number of shots needed that the likes of Dark Elves can.
The biggest issue most people have with Skaven is that they have options to deal with just about anything and they are so cheap that you can fit them all into a standard list.

I still love my Empire armies and will be dusting them off this year once I have come up with a list I am happy with. I am considering medium sized combat units with detachments of 15 swordsmen as a way to break steadfast and deny rank bonuses. This only leaves the problem that most Empire troops can't hit/wound worth sh#t.

Just a few thoughts

Ed da Pirate

[arfa]

That sounds pretty fair Ed, hopefully my life wizard will be able to resurrect enough flagellants/knights while healing the tank for it not to matter, but again magic is a fickle beast. Do you think I should put a flag in the crossbows for Blood & Glory?

[eddyh59]

That sounds pretty fair Ed, hopefully my life wizard will be able to resurrect enough flagellants/knights while healing the tank for it not to matter, but again magic is a fickle beast. Do you think I should put a flag in the crossbows for Blood & Glory?

I think one of the beauties of 8th is that it encourages the use of standards. Makes for great pagentry so if you can fit it in, go for it.

Ed da Pirate

[arfa]

I think one of the beauties of 8th is that it encourages the use of standards. Makes for great pagentry so if you can fit it in, go for it.

Ed da Pirate

Ive always been a fan of standards anyway, never went into a game without at least five or six with my Orcs, but because the idea of this army was that it's a generic rabble of peasants I didnt want any standing soldiers or 'kings colours' as it may be. Any ideas for a real rabble-rouser's banner? I can always drop some points for it anyway, was thinking of killing the archers for a start, then adding a couple of crossbows to the main unit.

Arfa da Grate

[eddyh59]

Any ideas for a real rabble-rouser's banner?

Arfa da Grate

Try a real scrappy looking Gobbo banner just in a plain colour (sorta like a linen rag) or get hold of a tavern sign that they can carry proudly and also use as a recruitment tool.
If you were feeling very frivolous you could make them a Stop sign or Give Way or maybe Road Closed.
These would really confuse orcs and gobbos but not Bretonnians coz they haven't learnt how to read

Ed da Pirate

[Vreith]

Lol to your last comment

here's what i would run for empire 2500 if i could get all the models together

no duplicated of warmachines, but theres still 4, no steam tanks (for 300pts i know thats the the same points as 30 flagies of 30 greatswords i prefer the infantry to the Stank, especially unbreakable or stubborn infantry), also with banner of disicplne for rocking a empire general you get ld10 on men, awesome! (& you can pick which state troop unit takes it!)

Imperial Army 2500 (2495)
Lords
Empire Wizard (175) LVL 4 (+35) Lore: Death, Magic Items: Holy Relic (+45) Rod of power (+30) Ring of Volans (+20) 305pts
General Of the Empire (80) Great weapon (+6) Magic Items: Talisman of preservation (+45) Meteoric Iron (+25) Van Horstmann’s speculum (+30) 186pts
496pts
Heroes
Captain of the Empire (50) BSB (+25) Full Plate (+8) & Shield (+2) Magic Items: Talisman of endurance (+30) Dragon Helm (+10) Biting Blade (+5) Iron Curse Icon (+5) 135pts
Warrior Priest (90) Armor of Destiny (+50) Shield (+2) 142pts
Master Engineer (65) 65pts
342pts
Core
30x Flagellant Warband (300) Prophet of doom (+10) 310pts
20x Hand Gunners (200) FC (+20) Repeater Handgun (+15) 195pts
15x Swordsmen (90) Magic Banner: Banner of discipline (+15) FC (+20) 125pts
630pts
Special
6x Outriders (126) Outrider Musician & Champion (+24) 150pts
25x Greatswords (250) FC (+30) + Detachments (472)
Detachment 1: 12x handgunners (96) Detachment 2: 12x handgunners (96)
1x Great Cannon 100pts
1x Mortar 75pts
797pts
Special
1x Helfire Volley Gun 110pts
1x Helstorm rocket battery 120pts

[arfa]

That looks good and all Vreith but its kind've, well, nothing like my army at all lol. I like the tank, its a nice model and a gigantic 'shoot me!' banner, and it can deal out some serious hurt whilst not taking much back at all. What Empire lacks is any real hitting power - you never really win fights, you just either survive them (knights) or lose the fight and dont care (flagellants/steadfast blocks). Even the characters dont really hurt all that much (unlike greenskins, which are a similar army in many aspects) so you need the few things in there that can hurt to, well, do so. Greatswords are nice for this but when it comes down to it theyre still T3 with a 4+ save - hardly convincing when pitted against similar things from other armies!

I love the banner of discipline but I also love 18" general range, the ability to cast extra spells and the protection that the war altar provides. Plus Ive got a war altar, and I plan on using it!

@Ed - love the idea of a tavern sign, reminds me a lot of the DoW halfing regiment's banner! Have to have a browse through the warhammer scenery to see if theres a good one, or else make one for myself. Cheers for the idea!

Arfa da Grate

[arfa]

-double post, please delete

This post has been edited by arfa: Jan 26 2011, 01:10 AM

[arfa]

Updated list-

Arch Lector – War Altar, Van Horstum’s Speculum, Sword of Anti-Heroes, Dawnstone, Dragonhelm, Heavy Armour, Shield– 329pts
Jade Wizard Lord - Lvl 4, Rod of Power, Holy Relic, Potion of Toughness - 305pts
Luthor Huss – 180pts

12x Crossbowmen – Champion, Standard Bearer - 111pts
Detachment – 5x Crossbowmen – 40pts
Detachment – 5x Crossbowmen – 40pts
10x Halberdiers – Musician, Standard Bearer – 62pts

11x Empire Knights - Full Command, Great Weapons, Banner of Eternal Flame - 303pts
5x Pistoliers – musician, champ with repeater pistol – 114pts

21x Flagellants - Prophet of Doom – 220pts
21x Flagellants - Prophet of Doom – 220pts

1x Cannon – 100pts
1x Cannon – 100pts
1x Mortar - 75pts

1x Steam Tank – 300pts

Total – 2499pts

Killed the five archers to spare some points up, they were originally a frenzy screen from last ed but with Ld10 to test on Im sure my Flagies can hold themselves now. With the spare 40pts I added a couple of crossbows to the main unit and gave them back their champion (he had to die in points culling originally). Lastly I gave both the Halberds and Crossbows a flag each, whilst its a few easy VPs I still do need it for the Blood and Glory scenario (cheers Ed). Any final thoughts?

Arfa da Grate

[Animal]

Special characters are for the weak

[arfa]

Special characters are for the weak

lol, Luther Huss is what you pick out of this list? He is very interchangeable lol.

Arfa da Grate