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> So 8th edition is here...(Marine vs DG starter!!!), June 17th release, Anyone else play a game today? 3rd June :)
ĆON
post Apr 23 2017, 07:29 PM
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They dont really need skirmish now. Shadow War (2nd ed 40K) fills that niche; they can go simple and big now.

The stuff they are proposing sounds an awful lot like Sigmar; and after the Generals Handbook for AoS; its been my main game (only played a single game of 40K since Cancon.)

Im alittle concerned about people jumping to premature judgements of 40K 8th ed based on their perception of Sigmar


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post Apr 23 2017, 10:03 PM
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QUOTE
Im alittle concerned about people jumping to premature judgements of 40K 8th ed based on their perception of Sigmar


Well, I guess that's the only thing people have to base their impressions on. Lack of information leads to speculation. Annoying, sure but it makes sense.
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Kingnova3000
post Apr 23 2017, 11:02 PM
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I'm very interested in 8th. I hope it's the reboot we all want. As it stands I have nothing​ to lose, with having not played the game for a couple of years now due to just overly complex patched together messy rules and imbalance. I think many dormant 40k players might surface by the end of the year of GW do this right

This post has been edited by Kingnova3000: Apr 23 2017, 11:03 PM


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post Apr 23 2017, 11:43 PM
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Good to see GW acknowledge the game needs a reboot. Lately they're reminding me of Lego in the mid-2000s: starting to turn the ship around after a decade of poor decisions.

Re: change from 2nd to 3rd edition--I approved, but I was, what, fourteen at the time? unsure.gif Grew increasingly jaded around 4th ed's release and stopped playing.

I've heard vague statements that Rick Priestley, Andy Chambers et al just wanted to tidy up 2nd ed for 3rd (much like they tidied up 4th ed WFB for 5th), but were overruled by corporate. And that Andy Chambers later decided the 3rd ed ruleset was fundamentally flawed, so he tried to reboot the rules for 4th--but was again overruled, leading to his departure. Hearsay though.

I would sum up the difference between 2nd and 3rd (in terms of the core rules, not Codex bling) like so:

2nd ed 40K is an Imperial Rhino. Rough and ready, old and clunky, but it chugs along and gets the job done. Plenty of worky bits under the hood give it enough complexity to handle almost any situation.

3rd ed 40K is an Orky looted Rhino. Looks the same at first glance, but the guts have been ripped out to make it go fasta. After a while the boyz realise they took out too much (e.g. Move stat to differentiate infantry), including the engine and the petrol tank, so they have to bolt all kinds of wacky special rules onto the hull to make it work proppa (e.g. Fleet of Foot rule).

Over the next 20 years, as more and more is slapped on top, the looted Rhino grows into a Battlewagon and finally a junk-encrusted Gargant creaking under its own weight. Time to melta-bomb it back to basics and rebuild. But this time, with rollerskates and rocket boosters! Er... I may have stretched this metaphor too far.

This new 40K business of 'bespoke special rules for every model' worries me. Not sure the current GW designers are up to the task of writing good rules. Then again, AoS might be proving me wrong as I type--haven't played it.


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panzerallan
post Apr 24 2017, 06:37 AM
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QUOTE(Arch_Magos_Kasen @ Apr 23 2017, 01:04 AM) *

GW have been hitting home run after home run lately. Like, seriously, as much as I spent years being a hater, and swore off ever returning to the fold, these days I am genuinely impressed by them. They've come a long way and, importantly, are producing great new games and models.
I really hope the new edition properly reboots the rules for 40k, and takes them down many of the same roads AoS went down, because while there are some things 40k needs that are different, the current ruleset is really outdated and a relic of the game design of the early thousands. Something more new and modern would be great.

I have every confidence that the new edition will rock, and every confidence that there will be those online who will bitch and moan endlessly regardless. Maybe we'll see the same sorts of tantrums and whinging that the WFB community gave after AoS.


If the haters leave en masse like with WFB it will be brilliant, reinvigorate the player base and nuke the bull###### WAAC powergaming mentality that had built up.


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Krefey
post Apr 24 2017, 09:06 AM
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QUOTE(Hapless Peon @ Apr 23 2017, 09:20 AM) *

I came into this thread to eat popcorn and watch the wailing and gnashing of teeth and have so far been disappointed...

Need moar nerd rage!

In seriousness though, this may be what it takes to get me re-invested in 40K; Shadow War: Armageddon has opened the door but this may get me to step back in.

I started playing AoS with my kids after initially being hugely sceptical and dismissive of the system. It has really grown on me and has a lot of good elements that if applied to 40K could be a positive change.


Stay tuned while I film myself burning an entire chapter worth of marines armata_PDT_11.gif


QUOTE(Emperor Fooble @ Apr 23 2017, 07:13 PM) *

I assume it will be just like AoS where everything just has points values so if someone ones to spend 600points on a baneblade in a 1k point game they can.
And there is always at least one person who does that and ruins the game for everyone else.


But like AoS, anything would be able to potentially hurt it, even a humble lasgun, assuming they go the same route, which signs seem to be pointing towards.

QUOTE(ĆON @ Apr 23 2017, 07:29 PM) *

The stuff they are proposing sounds an awful lot like Sigmar; and after the Generals Handbook for AoS; its been my main game (only played a single game of 40K since Cancon.)

Im alittle concerned about people jumping to premature judgements of 40K 8th ed based on their perception of Sigmar


I like the sigmar rules. I feel that they actually make the gameplay more fluffy. You have big models able to nuke multiple small models in one hit / swing. So you could have a primarch who kills 3-4 marines with only one hit as an example. I am pretty excited to see what happens with 8th edition.


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goatheadedbastard
post Apr 24 2017, 09:27 AM
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I'm actually feeling quite positive armata_PDT_08.gif

I'm impressed with the information being put out by GW and the way they're doing it... free rules, listening to feedback, proving that change is possible and positive...

I haven't played 40K in yonks, and haven't played in a 40K comp in over 2 years... but this has me a bit excited...

armata_PDT_37.gif well played GW, well played.


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Mone
post Apr 24 2017, 02:56 PM
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I'm happier to see a quicker, easier 40k, and I'm looking forward to whatever is coming. The only thing that ######es me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, is that I have an entire shelf of expansions, codexes and box packs like wrath of Magnus that will be out of date and unusable. The three gathering storm books just released will now be useless. That is the thing that ######s me. Usually it's a slow replacement of codexes, and this time everything's out.


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Mango
post Apr 24 2017, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE(Mone @ Apr 24 2017, 02:26 PM) *

I'm happier to see a quicker, easier 40k, and I'm looking forward to whatever is coming. The only thing that ######es me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, is that I have an entire shelf of expansions, codexes and box packs like wrath of Magnus that will be out of date and unusable.


Not wanting to sound rude but welcome to GW.

If you (or anyone else) over commits to an edition of their game you are going to lose significant amounts of $$$ on an edition change (or book update) when your books become obsolete. You just have to go back through the editions of WFB and 40k to see the plethora of 'useless' army books, codex, chapter approved, campaign books that are useless for anything but fluff within a couple of years.

Par for the course unfortunately, its a lesson we all learn at some stage smile.gif
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ĆON
post Apr 24 2017, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE(Emperor Fooble @ Apr 23 2017, 07:13 PM) *


I assume it will be just like AoS where everything just has points values so if someone ones to spend 600points on a baneblade in a 1k point game they can.
And there is always at least one person who does that and ruins the game for everyone else.


With Sigmar; its all about the missions.

You can table someone; but if you dont have the objective points, then you cant win.

Alot of the objectives are culumative scoring (so hold onto an objective, and you will score it each turn) some even only allow characters to hold them; others are the side with the most models claims the objective.

So you could pay 600pts for that baneblade, but my small grot squad will be able to hold it as Ive got more models.

In regards to a lasgun destroying a Landraider, they could easily put in a rule with a certain keyword like 'armoured' which would say anything with a rend of - wont be able to hurt it.


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ĆON
post Apr 24 2017, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE(Mone @ Apr 24 2017, 02:56 PM) *
I'm happier to see a quicker, easier 40k, and I'm looking forward to whatever is coming. The only thing that ######es me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, is that I have an entire shelf of expansions, codexes and box packs like wrath of Magnus that will be out of date and unusable. The three gathering storm books just released will now be useless. That is the thing that ######s me. Usually it's a slow replacement of codexes, and this time everything's out.


Not useless; yes the actual rulies may not be able to be used (although Id suggest Kill Team would be a good thing to play every so often. The missions however will still be able to be played, and the extra rules could be used as inspiration for narrative games.

Just because GW doesnt sell the books anymore; its not as if they still cant be useful...


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rogal_dorn
post Apr 24 2017, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE(ĆON @ Apr 24 2017, 03:25 PM) *

With Sigmar; its all about the missions.

You can table someone; but if you dont have the objective points, then you cant win.

Alot of the objectives are culumative scoring (so hold onto an objective, and you will score it each turn) some even only allow characters to hold them; others are the side with the most models claims the objective.

So you could pay 600pts for that baneblade, but my small grot squad will be able to hold it as Ive got more models.

In regards to a lasgun destroying a Landraider, they could easily put in a rule with a certain keyword like 'armoured' which would say anything with a rend of - wont be able to hurt it.


If I've learnt anything from action movies it's that a lucky shot can totally annihilate anything.


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Krefey
post Apr 24 2017, 03:49 PM
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QUOTE(Mone @ Apr 24 2017, 02:56 PM) *

I'm happier to see a quicker, easier 40k, and I'm looking forward to whatever is coming. The only thing that ######es me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, is that I have an entire shelf of expansions, codexes and box packs like wrath of Magnus that will be out of date and unusable. The three gathering storm books just released will now be useless. That is the thing that ######s me. Usually it's a slow replacement of codexes, and this time everything's out.


I bought the Gathering Storm series for the fluff, not the rules anyway, so I fortunately am not affected in that regard. I'm hoping to pick up some of the codecies being offloaded for cheap so I can read the fluff that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to.


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post Apr 24 2017, 03:50 PM
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QUOTE(Mango @ Apr 24 2017, 02:55 PM) *

Not wanting to sound rude but welcome to GW.

If you (or anyone else) over commits to an edition of their game you are going to lose significant amounts of $$$ on an edition change (or book update) when your books become obsolete. You just have to go back through the editions of WFB and 40k to see the plethora of 'useless' army books, codex, chapter approved, campaign books that are useless for anything but fluff within a couple of years.

Par for the course unfortunately, its a lesson we all learn at some stage smile.gif


I remember reading an interview with Gav Thorpe once where he said that this was what made him realise he was done as a designer at GW; he sat down to write the latest Dark Elf book and realised it was the third one he'd written.


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Emperor Fooble
post Apr 25 2017, 01:01 AM
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QUOTE(ĆON @ Apr 24 2017, 03:25 PM) *

With Sigmar; its all about the missions.

You can table someone; but if you dont have the objective points, then you cant win.

Alot of the objectives are culumative scoring (so hold onto an objective, and you will score it each turn) some even only allow characters to hold them; others are the side with the most models claims the objective.

So you could pay 600pts for that baneblade, but my small grot squad will be able to hold it as Ive got more models.

In regards to a lasgun destroying a Landraider, they could easily put in a rule with a certain keyword like 'armoured' which would say anything with a rend of - wont be able to hurt it.


Aye but if objective points are a draw then it goes to kill points.
And at 1k points if someone plops down Alarielle it's generally good game right away, and makes for an incredibly boring match where one of two things happens:
1: You get tabled with no chance of doing anything, which is the most common scenario.
2: You manage to get really lucky and kill the big monster and net yourself a win.

I love Age of Sigmar now, don't get me wrong, it's even got me spending my weekends painting, so I should update my diary.
But I'm really noticing in my local gaming group, some players are having a rough time. We have a very large 'power gap' in our group, we have one group of players who tend to play unoptimized weak lists, and one group that plays hardcore netlists with super characters (aka Alaraielle) in 1k points, which forces those of us who aim for the middle ground to either also take hard lists to have a chance, or get ground into the dirt.

As for 40k 8th, as a natural pessimist the nights are dark and full of terrors but I'm looking forward to the rule set, but not everything getting squatted and the enormous power creep that will be whatever new factions are released.


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Kordos
post Apr 25 2017, 08:32 AM
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Warhammer TV FB page did a live feed Q&A last night

https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam

I'm watching it now

Tanks etc will do the AoS thing - have wounds and toughness and decrease in how good they are as they take wounds


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Kordos
post Apr 25 2017, 08:47 AM
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Notes if you don't want or have time to sit through it all https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comme.../live_qa_notes/


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post Apr 25 2017, 10:18 AM
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QUOTE
I love Age of Sigmar now, don't get me wrong, it's even got me spending my weekends painting, so I should update my diary.
But I'm really noticing in my local gaming group, some players are having a rough time. We have a very large 'power gap' in our group, we have one group of players who tend to play unoptimized weak lists, and one group that plays hardcore netlists with super characters (aka Alaraielle) in 1k points, which forces those of us who aim for the middle ground to either also take hard lists to have a chance, or get ground into the dirt.


Though isn't that just the standard experience of all gaming groups?

Will the game be balanced? Unlikely, but it's always been about trying to strike a reasonable balance. People can take OP units, but then I guess it's about trying to say to them to stop.
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post Apr 25 2017, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE
Notes if you don't want or have time to sit through it all https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comme.../live_qa_notes/


Dat returns policy.
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post Apr 25 2017, 12:14 PM
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I like sigmar but no templates, vehicles with wounds ( will have to see) and the new morale system kinda makes me nervous.


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