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> So 8th edition is here...(Marine vs DG starter!!!), June 17th release >>> Index books army breakdown
Demon
post May 19 2017, 09:12 AM
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Also yellow is known to be the funnest of colours to paint

Why not just dont and stab yourself in the knee instead?

This post has been edited by Demon: May 19 2017, 09:13 AM


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BearPowers
post May 19 2017, 11:30 AM
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It's the only way to git gud.

There's that Chaos army that's black and white down the middle. I'm sure that'd be pleasant to paint too.
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Demon
post May 19 2017, 12:21 PM
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Tanks are weird now.

Facings don't matter and infantry support is less important. I get the why but it takes away quite a bit of needing to maneuvre


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Blackhearts Reaver
post May 19 2017, 12:24 PM
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Landraiders drifting across the table for cover......


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Chaplain_Fortis
post May 19 2017, 12:27 PM
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Facings were always super arbitrary and only added a model placement wrinkle. I won't miss them. I think you'll still want some infantry around to stop combat characters and krak grenades stripping off wounds in d6 chunks

Lol, because no one ever used land raiders as cover before, no siree

This post has been edited by Chaplain_Fortis: May 19 2017, 12:27 PM


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Demon
post May 19 2017, 01:35 PM
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Well we don't want model placement wrinkle in a game about placing models and stuff.

You say wrinkle, I say outmaneuvering its all good


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kthx
post May 19 2017, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE(Demon @ May 19 2017, 01:35 PM) *

Well we don't want model placement wrinkle in a game about placing models and stuff.

You say wrinkle, I say outmaneuvering its all good


Things like that don't add decision points (or seldom add decision points) - they just make it more time consuming / fiddly to execute one's intention. Like 2 inch spacing: when it is relevant, you should always do it. Actually making someone execute that is just a waste of both player's time.

For me, I'd prefer the couple hours wargaming were spent on decisions rather than execution.

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Demon
post May 19 2017, 02:03 PM
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Except that armour facings are an actual thing and people were able to play a game in 2 hours using them. A tank being easier to kill from the rear or sides wasn't the time consuming part of 7th dude.

Deciding which way your tank is facing/trying to take advantage of that isn't fiddly.

Like I said, I get the why. Its not a complaint but it is a fairly big change. 3rd onwards facings were important as they generally are in most wargames involving armour.



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Krefey
post May 19 2017, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE(Demon @ May 19 2017, 02:03 PM) *

Except that armour facings are an actual thing and people were able to play a game in 2 hours using them. A tank being easier to kill from the rear or sides wasn't the time consuming part of 7th dude.

Deciding which way your tank is facing/trying to take advantage of that isn't fiddly.

Like I said, I get the why. Its not a complaint but it is a fairly big change. 3rd onwards facings were important as they generally are in most wargames involving armour.


I thought 2nd ed had facing for a moment, but then remembered it was hit location based AV, not facing. Wait, didn't it have side facings as well as front?

I don't mind the change. I get where you're coming from though Demon, but I don't think armour facing on a vehicle contributed to "tactical" decisions that much anyway.


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BearPowers
post May 19 2017, 05:38 PM
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Maybe the different levels of rules will include bonuses for shooting the flank or rear of a vehicle?

But again, I can see GWs logic. They want to speed the game up, so this is something that was always going to sacrificed. I think it also fixes the issue of all the vehicle-monstrous creatures out there that could have AV or toughness.
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fofjunior
post May 19 2017, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE(BearPowers @ May 19 2017, 05:38 PM) *

Maybe the different levels of rules will include bonuses for shooting the flank or rear of a vehicle?

But again, I can see GWs logic. They want to speed the game up, so this is something that was always going to sacrificed. I think it also fixes the issue of all the vehicle-monstrous creatures out there that could have AV or toughness.


I imagine that the higher the armour value the vehicle had in 7th and therefore harder to destroy the more wounds it will have, the better it's save will be and the higher it's toughness value.

I think by memory a dreadnought has T7 and 8 wounds whereas the annihilation barge is T6 and 8 wounds. Dreadie has a 3+ save compared to 4+ for the barge.

I think perhaps cover will be the key to mitigating the minus modifier on high strength weapons that will rip off chunks of wounds. I get the positioning thing from 7th where certain weapons couldn't get through your armour but I can see where they have just changed the mechanic to use toughness and armour saves instead of an Av value.

Movement will still be key, probably more so in 8th.


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Rice Array
post May 19 2017, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE(Krefey @ May 19 2017, 02:22 PM) *

I thought 2nd ed had facing for a moment, but then remembered it was hit location based AV, not facing. Wait, didn't it have side facings as well as front?

I don't mind the change. I get where you're coming from though Demon, but I don't think armour facing on a vehicle contributed to "tactical" decisions that much anyway.

2nd had facings and hit locations. You rolled to see what bit you hit, and then you rolled to beat the armour of that bit based on your facing.

Lack of facings seems kinda ######ty. I guess we'll see how it plays out, but it seems like tanks won't be terribly satisfying to use.


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QUOTE(Krefey @ May 25 2017, 09:54 AM) *

Cute. How many marines do you have again?

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Chaplain_Fortis
post May 19 2017, 09:38 PM
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I kind of like that it represents shooting up a vehicle slowly a little better than the old rules. I guess I just love abstraction though.


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Björn
post May 19 2017, 09:57 PM
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Your 2nd Ed Datafax (you rolled were you hit): http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/...187REVIEW11.JPG

Front had in general higher AVs than side/rear.

2nd is still the best, although mass HtH gets tiresome... armata_PDT_14.gif

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BearPowers
post May 19 2017, 10:06 PM
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QUOTE
I kind of like that it represents shooting up a vehicle slowly a little better than the old rules. I guess I just love abstraction though.


I guess it also means you can forge that narrative. A particularly strong hit on the front could be a shot through a visor screen, whilst an ineffective hit on the side could be a dud shell.

Still, it'll be an interesting change but I think less time spent measuring angles with laser pointers will only be a good thing.
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Rice Array
post May 19 2017, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE(Chaplain_Fortis @ May 19 2017, 09:38 PM) *

I kind of like that it represents shooting up a vehicle slowly a little better than the old rules. I guess I just love abstraction though.

the old sudden death for vehicles seemed better for verisimilitude IMO


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QUOTE(Krefey @ May 25 2017, 09:54 AM) *

Cute. How many marines do you have again?

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Rice Array
post May 19 2017, 11:39 PM
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probably worse for actual gaming though


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QUOTE(Krefey @ May 25 2017, 09:54 AM) *

Cute. How many marines do you have again?

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Caliginous
post May 20 2017, 12:56 PM
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QUOTE(rogal_dorn @ May 18 2017, 06:30 PM) *

You'd be the first person in history to have two space marine chapters AND a wife.


Haha!


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Maxo_Q
post May 20 2017, 10:34 PM
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I vote for Minotaurs or Mortefactors


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BearPowers
post May 20 2017, 10:38 PM
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Ooh, do the Fire Hawks. Imagine painting that stripe and those flames.
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