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> ELI5 - Current state of the game for returning players, Played 10 years ago, how are things looking now?
sRs_spoon
post Mar 12 2017, 03:38 PM
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Hello everyone smile.gif

So I'm a potential returning player (i might as well be brand new for how much I actually remember) and just wanted to get a quick and dirty snap shot of what the current state of things is with the hobby.

I was wondering if you could share your thoughts on the state of the game in general as it stands today.
I hear 8th edition is around the corner, how soon is it expected?
Are there any glaring flaws with the current rule set that I should know?
What's the current feelings on GW and the direction the company is going? (Is it still a love/hate thing?)

In addition to that I'd also add that I want to get back in to the game with SM, specifically a Drop pod & infantry based army, nothing too grand, just enough to dip my toes in. I used to play nids. But I've long since sold off all my models and gear, so I would basically be starting the hobby from scratch. Any advice in this regard would be appreciated

I'll make a post on the army list forum soon enough, but I'm still in the very early research stages at the moment.

Thanks for reading smile.gif
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Chaplain_Fortis
post Mar 12 2017, 04:03 PM
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Hope you like fighting super-heavies.


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Maxo_Q
post Mar 12 2017, 05:47 PM
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It has both flaws and excellent concepts. The variety of armies, factions and list is huge. Its a glorius time for miniature design.

I personally havent liked playing it for many years and a cursory glance at 7th tells me its still a good ruleset but with flaws like every edition.

Theres more to love about the new GeeDub. But theres still plenty of haters.

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horus
post Mar 12 2017, 05:55 PM
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come back in june... new edition...


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The Moon
post Mar 12 2017, 06:06 PM
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Hi sRs spoon ... im just getting back into the hobby myself and yeah as these guys are saying - its being rereleased soon so who knows what it will be like...


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Blackhearts Reaver
post Mar 13 2017, 09:19 AM
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I was a top level player. Could compete at the nationals

I would say that 7th ed played with the right people or with a reasonable set of limitations would actually be one of the better rulesets over all the editions.

2nd edition (way too many badly written rules).
3rd edition, (too many, flawed rules).
3.5 was not a bad ruleset, (still had some way too powerful/unbalanced things).
4th edition was OK
5th edition was good.
6th edition had some problems (introduction of flyers and flying monstrous creatures, some major rule changes)
7th edition is a fairly refined base rules set that actually works quite well and has no major jarring base rule problems. It has suffered from the release for too many codex, and the introduction of Lord of War (superheavies and Gargantuan Monstrous Creatures) and Formations (small organisation of units with a few bonus rules)>>>some rules adapted from Apocalypse part of the 40K game.

With only Force organisations charts + Formations limiting the average drop-in game lists have become rather powergamey. It has made Drop-in games like two competitors facing off with nuclear codes.... You either escalate to powergamey to actually make the 2hrs worth while or just die horribly (if you are playing with a 3rd ed type list) and that is not fun for either player. The players that get glee out of a complete slaughter (of older lists) are usually not worth knowing as a person.

7th edition with a group of like minded players or a good set of limitations (or a good adjudicator of lists) is actually a great game. It is fairly smooth running, games are fast as long as player know their army and the base rules.

If you have people who don't know the base rules well and have internet powerlists with too many rules; equipment; psykic powers; and formations rules; being force multipliers and they are not familiar with any of it >>> it can make games drag and be unpleasant experiences.

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Mar 13 2017, 09:31 AM


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Try to be positive and help... not negative and tear things down.

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Obeisance
post Mar 15 2017, 10:45 PM
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I'm actually looking at getting back into the game after 6+ years myself. Apparently tournaments here hit 70+ players.. which is sweet.

Annd... I'm getting a lot of mixed responses from anyone I talk to about the game. It tends to be on the spectrum of "Yeah, it's pretty fun most of the time" to "You'd be insane to play this game right now."

Tonight I've been reading some of the Chaos books to try and get my head around the formations/detachments and such. And I'm still lost.

People keep telling me there's huge rule bloat issues. I see it now.

Personally, I'm gonna keep reading and see if I cool off before blowing and cash.


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Hapless Peon
post Mar 15 2017, 10:57 PM
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QUOTE(Obeisance @ Mar 15 2017, 10:45 PM) *

Personally, I'm gonna keep reading and see if I cool off before blowing and cash.


They've just announced a stand alone skirmish game based on the old Necromunda ruleset but using 12 of the current 40k factions. It might be something that might allow you to try it out in a smaller setting without the rules bloat or the need to drop huge stacks of $$$


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Blackhearts Reaver
post Mar 16 2017, 06:26 PM
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Yeah the main bloat problem is with the multiplication of bonus' for units, fomr multiple sources.

Eg
- psykic powers
- IC special abilities
- special equipment, banners and Relic items.
- Formation special rules
- Unit special rules (that are transferrable cos the special rules only require 1 modle in the unit to have it and then they all get it >> there are alot of these specialrules).
- etc

Some people spend their time tolling thru possible combinations and develop lists around things that create "deathstar" with a truckful of special rules and save bonuses rerolls, etc that force multiply and already powerful unit.

From simple stuff lke making a Bloodthirster With a D-str axe invisible so he can fly across the table (land and still need 6's to hit = Invisibility) and proceed to chop up anything in its way while perhaps also having bonuses to its invulnerable save or rerolls.... etc)
to other things like a eldar unit that can teleport every turn landing without scatter to unleash 5-10 D str flamer templates and if you try and charge it you get 5-30 D-str hits to the face.....

Or gravbiker unit with 3+ save 2+ rerollable cover save and 2+ FnP roll etc.... (Fast but less damage but very hard to kill...).

the possiblities are endless and the people using them find them these days with out even doing the research themselves witht eh help of the internet.... Luckily mostly they are stupid and never use the Deathstars to the best of it's ability.... hahaha.

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Mar 16 2017, 06:29 PM


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Run local tourneys, Make terrain. 75,000+ pts...Play 1-3 games a week...(40K,BFG,BB,FoW).
Good Trader +149 .....QLD Masters: 1st/14(Tau), 1st/12(Daemons), 4th/15(Daemons), 1st/16(Orks), 2nd/15? (IG), 6th/22(Eldar).
AUS ranking=briefly No.1. :) ATC2011=QLD team ChampionsATC2012=QLD 5th
Retired from Competitive play sometime early? 2013

Try to be positive and help... not negative and tear things down.

"I passionately believe that's it's not just what you say that counts, it's also how you say it - that the success of your argument critically depends on your manner of presenting it." Alain de Botton
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Gorechilds Protege
post Mar 22 2017, 10:29 AM
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I last played properly in 5th edition myself. Played fairly high end at the few tournaments I was able to get to. 6th ed came out and half the tournament base pretty muchw orldwide collapsed over night. This isn't an over exaggeration either. I'm getting back in casually with some friends currently too but 8th ed is basically - there's too many rules. the core rules are fine, but the codicies and armies and detachments etc, there's simply too many. Even if you acquire everything via piracy (and saving yourself over $2500 usd in books, supplements, codicies etc - yeah, GW are taking the piss these days, especially when you get books that are largely fluff with 2 pages of rules for new forces etc) you still won't know every armies rules inside out like in previous editions and so you will find it very difficult to build an all comers army. As much funa s playing 40k with apoclaypse worked in, that should be made an option in the core rules imho. Plus sides of the edition - they finally made a deathwatch army (codex is okay, very fun for casual play), and remade genestealer cults (withe pic models hearkening back to the original ones to boot). You can also get an army of Imperial Knights, as in the giant walker knights. The models for many of the current range of models are stunning and this is a huge plus too. But as a playable game...wait till June apparently for the new edition.

Edit: You know an edition of a game is screwed when an otherwise previously vibrant half a page plus of new army list threads a day forum turns into 3 army lists posted in 2-3 months time only. The state of these forums is a sad reflection of their past glory. that's how ######ed this edition is.

This post has been edited by Gorechilds Protege: Mar 22 2017, 10:33 AM


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QUOTE(Starfire @ Aug 18 2012, 07:22 PM) *

But seriously, I'm amazed by just how little GP has written. On a scale of 1 to Gorechild's Protege, this is nothing. It's like a Heavy Incinerator with which you've just rolled a 1 to wound.


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QUOTE(Paddlepop Lion @ Mar 21 2012, 10:40 AM) *

All of these things just smash you unforgivingly and theres nothing you can do to stop them. Its completely stupid to take this army the way it is, you will degfinately lose every game no matter how good you are.


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Blackhearts Reaver
post Mar 22 2017, 11:02 AM
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I disagree with that assessment.

Where i am a whole new crop of players are coming thru. 40K is see a bit of a revival. The release of older secret armies (as you say GSC deathwatch and harlequins admech and Custodes etc) has excited and pulled back in a few of the jaded veterans. This has bolstered numbers with the newer younger players. A lot who have been attracted thru the plethora of computer games now.

Players who hide away in garages don't see the positive side. The internet has more trolls and complainers because that is all they have time to do... sit in the basement and complain about the "good times" of the past. If you are out actually playing you eventually find like-minded players and have good times.... I have played to fairly high levels in all editions since 2nd ed and I think this edition with a competent set of restrictions/ composition score / like-minded players it is a great set of rules. The other part of my gaming that allows for a more positive outlook is I game in more than 1 place as well as keep tabs of 40K in many different online sources.

I would agree the GW obsession with releasing a Sub codex with a bunch of pretty pics, some hastily written history and about 10% rules should be put out in soft cover for about $35 not $83.... Even a dedicated player cannot keep up with the amount of rules and army lists being released currently. So that implies players need to trust opponents to be honest and actually know their own rules. In this time poor world with sliding ethics (and personal effort) people seem happy to just make do and if in doubt benefit themselves.

The game has got to where it needs some education and ethics injected into it. I see far to many of the Millennials and even some of the older players bending the rules (even outright cheating) so they can win. I hate to say it too but of the 3-4 places I see on a semi regular gaming basis GW Shop has the worst offenders for cheating A bit of an indictment of GW's hands-off approach to veterans/staff teaching newer players they will teach them to paint but not play the game more than a 4'x4' starter game in the front of the store (company policy apparently).

A sign of this Trump-esque world we live in. Even in Australia we have politicians who flip flop on major ethical decisions (Turnbull on many issues) for political reasons. Personal Ethics and standards have left the building. We allow scum to lead us and we reap what we sow....

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Mar 22 2017, 11:51 AM


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Run local tourneys, Make terrain. 75,000+ pts...Play 1-3 games a week...(40K,BFG,BB,FoW).
Good Trader +149 .....QLD Masters: 1st/14(Tau), 1st/12(Daemons), 4th/15(Daemons), 1st/16(Orks), 2nd/15? (IG), 6th/22(Eldar).
AUS ranking=briefly No.1. :) ATC2011=QLD team ChampionsATC2012=QLD 5th
Retired from Competitive play sometime early? 2013

Try to be positive and help... not negative and tear things down.

"I passionately believe that's it's not just what you say that counts, it's also how you say it - that the success of your argument critically depends on your manner of presenting it." Alain de Botton
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Emperor Fooble
post Mar 23 2017, 11:41 AM
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What a post!

Linking playing 40k to your Trump and Auspol opinion deserves some kind of award.

This post has been edited by Emperor Fooble: Mar 23 2017, 11:42 AM


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ThatWallyGuy
post Mar 24 2017, 08:55 PM
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Lol.. the drop in lists was due to this forum dying

7th ed is good fun. But 8th ed is coming soon*



*no annouced release date but GW has been talking about rule changes and roumor has it at a June release


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BearPowers
post Mar 26 2017, 08:44 AM
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The list section became unpopular due to the forum dying and all of the rage posting. You put up anything that's even slightly OP and your thread was flooded with people telling you how bad a person you were for running whatever combo you have.

I think the games in a state where you can take a broken list and be fully aware how broken it is. You don't need a forum of people telling you that. Community Comp offers a framework if you want a more palatable list, but that has its detractors too (and fair enough).

Any who, bring on 8th. The rumours all keep suggesting a more themey game. So that'll be a nice change.
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Demon
post Mar 27 2017, 04:36 PM
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Those goddamned millenials ruint the game RUINT IT I SAY


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Tyra_Nid
post Apr 14 2017, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE(Demon @ Mar 27 2017, 04:36 PM) *

Those goddamned millenials ruint the game RUINT IT I SAY


As a top level tournament player (could have played international tournaments) I agree.


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Starfire
post Apr 14 2017, 01:01 PM
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Once I played against Trigger Happy. He comes from Ireland I think. That's an international game, right?


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You know what? I give up, this is like playing chess with pidgeon. I'm going to leave while I still have enough brain cells to make the decision.

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JCN
post Apr 28 2017, 07:09 PM
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For a long absent player I think the best idea is wait for 8th ed as previous replies have said - I have been trying to get back into the game for a while and frankly have been overwhelmed by the sheer number of books, codexes, odd digital bits and have not actually managed a game.

8th ed will apparently start out with free rules (and only 12 pages) and free army lists with all current models - I think that will be a great opportunity for old befuddled gamers to start again and enjoy the experience.

So wait a little & see.


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Blackhearts Reaver
post Apr 29 2017, 12:38 AM
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Yeah 8th ed sounds like as big a shake up as 2nd >> 3rd or 5th to >>6th so it will be a good time to start fresh when everyone has to learn to play again and work out what is what.


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Run local tourneys, Make terrain. 75,000+ pts...Play 1-3 games a week...(40K,BFG,BB,FoW).
Good Trader +149 .....QLD Masters: 1st/14(Tau), 1st/12(Daemons), 4th/15(Daemons), 1st/16(Orks), 2nd/15? (IG), 6th/22(Eldar).
AUS ranking=briefly No.1. :) ATC2011=QLD team ChampionsATC2012=QLD 5th
Retired from Competitive play sometime early? 2013

Try to be positive and help... not negative and tear things down.

"I passionately believe that's it's not just what you say that counts, it's also how you say it - that the success of your argument critically depends on your manner of presenting it." Alain de Botton
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ThatWallyGuy
post Apr 29 2017, 06:37 PM
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So excite for the new rules


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