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> Trademark troubles, Seeking information on those that stole Warhammer Fantasy...
Jimbo81
post Mar 24 2017, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE(Hapless Peon @ Mar 23 2017, 05:26 PM) *


It is sad that the community has fractured into different games but as a business it did not make commercial sense for GW to pander to gamers who were unlikely to spend much in their stores (they either had most of what they needed or bought from other manufacturers). Instead they have tried to reach a new market and it appears to be paying off.


Can anyone provide evidence in support of this?

I find it difficult to believe. My thinking is that if your existing customer base (admittedly in decline) gets fractured and goes to 9th age and KOW (not to mention the OTHER exodus when they ballsed up 8th ed), then you can't be on the right track.

What would you define as "paying off"? making a bigger profit than WHFB 8th Ed did? Gaining new gamers exclusive to AOS? Does anyone know for certain that it's payed off or does it just seem that way? Maybe my search-Fu needs improving. I found this:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/08/gw-...rustration.html
"Games Workshop’s performance in the year to April 2016: The table reveals that revenue has fallen marginally. Profit derived from that revenue has fallen 27%."
Here's another article I found:
https://spikeybits.com/2016/07/gw-are-profi...id-in-2015.html

“We made progress in what was another busy and rewarding year. We started the financial year off with a huge product launch; Warhammer: Age of Sigmar, one of the biggest changes we’ve ever made to one of our core universes. Our design to manufacture was outstanding, over-delivering in terms of original concept art to final manufactured models, producing some of the best models we’ve ever made. The simplified rules, supporting the models for those who like to play, made it much easier to get started. We learnt some valuable lessons during the year on how to deliver product system changes on this scale and as we released more of the range in the second half of the year, we finished the year with sales of Warhammer: Age of Sigmar at a higher rate than Warhammer has enjoyed for several years.

Gross margin was maintained in the period (2016: 68.3%; 2015: 68.9%). We continued with our policy of only increasing the prices of our new releases (approximately 30% of our sales) to reflect the necessary investment in our product offer and the quality we have built into these new releases. The annual impact of this increase on our UK RRP price list is an average increase of 3%.

Costs have increased in the year, mainly as a result of our store opening programme and the full year effect of the depreciation of the investment in our visitor centre which opened in April 2015.
After a disappointing December we carried out a thorough review of our operational plans and, thanks to a great team effort, we bounced back with four out of five months of profitable sales growth”

That's Management speak for 'we tried something new, it hasn't made any money yet but we can blame this on the opening of new stores, and even though profits are down 27%, compared to December, we sold something in Jan, Feb, March and April at around the same price we usually charge.'


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Hapless Peon
post Mar 24 2017, 01:52 PM
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Pulling the data from late 2015 and early 2016 does show that initially on AoS' release there was a drop. Possibly due to the fan backlash at something so different from the current product, possibly larger issues at play.

However, if you look at the more recent figures for the second half of 2016 you see a very different scenario Profits soar at Games Workshop as fantasy model retailer battles back from slump. Doubling the before tax profits of the previous year is a huge achievement by anyone's standards. Now this may not all be due to AoS and indeed the profits GW is getting from licensing was also noted to have doubled in that time but the changes they made from 2015 to 2016 were obviously working in a market sense.

I believe that the introduction of the Generals Handbook had a significant influence on this as it brought back a lot of gamers who were unhappy with the freeform model of AoS as it was initially sold. Combined that with a lot of big releases that have gone down well with the community at large as well as better community engagement it is clear that the decisions of Kevin Rountree are paying off.

I won't deny that AoS had a rocky launch that was harmed by some questionable decisions and that it did fracture the community but from a long term perspective GW appears to be back on a solid path.


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jurgon the viking
post Mar 24 2017, 09:24 PM
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cant speak for anyone other than myself, but AOS has got me back and inspired into the hobby again. I really enjoy the tactics it employs in the games, and the new minis look really cool. Maybe the answer is that they just wanted to start having fun again?? and fun=sales...


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Blade_of_Apollo
post Mar 24 2017, 09:28 PM
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QUOTE(Hapless Peon @ Mar 24 2017, 02:52 PM) *

However, if you look at the more recent figures for the second half of 2016 you see a very different scenario Profits soar at Games Workshop as fantasy model retailer battles back from slump. Doubling the before tax profits of the previous year is a huge achievement by anyone's standards. Now this may not all be due to AoS and indeed the profits GW is getting from licensing was also noted to have doubled in that time but the changes they made from 2015 to 2016 were obviously working in a market sense.


You should read the annual reports etc to get a better picture. It's not quite as rosy as the headlines. Not bad, but not as amazing as it first seems.


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Jimbo81
post Mar 25 2017, 08:32 AM
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Phrases like "doubling the profit of the previous year" seems misleading. Double nothing is still nothing.

The improvement in profits is probably more from the release of total war warhammer than AOS from the previous year.



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Blade_of_Apollo
post Mar 25 2017, 09:39 AM
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Without going through the report again, they had sales improvement, but also made some Balance Sheet adjustments around intangibles, had some really favourable FX and royalties went through the roof. Can't recall the scope but it's all on the Investor Relation part of their website if you want to read.


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wazron
post Mar 28 2017, 06:14 PM
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I stopped playing all WH Fantasy games (except WHFRP and Mordheim) in 1988 when 40k came out and I switched. WHFB just didn't have the fluidity I was looking for in a tabletop. AoS has actually got me seriously considering jumping ship again, as it now has a simplicity that 40k is struggling to match.

Now in an ironic turn of events, where young Me had time to play massive 40k battles, crusty old Me is looking for something fast and fun so I can get in a game when the missus isn't looking.

In the end, the rusted-on WHFB grognards with 20,000 points of models simply weren't generating revenue. I don't blame GW for pulling apart the IP and putting it back together wrong, like one of Butch's toys in 'Toy Story'. If it brings in fresh blood it must be a good thing IMHO.


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HumanFly
post Mar 31 2017, 05:37 PM
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QUOTE(wazron @ Mar 28 2017, 10:14 AM) *


In the end, the rusted-on WHFB grognards with 20,000 points of models simply weren't generating revenue. I don't blame GW for pulling apart the IP and putting it back together wrong, like one of Butch's toys in 'Toy Story'. If it brings in fresh blood it must be a good thing IMHO.


Ops, shame Warhammer was playable from Skirmish to Warbands to Massive Battles ( the idea of Path to Glory for EwwGross-aos was taken from Warhammer).
But yes blame customers and Warhammer as Warhammer, afterall GW is infallible.
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Arch_Magos_Kasen
post Mar 31 2017, 05:59 PM
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Nope, try again.


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wazron
post Apr 4 2017, 10:58 PM
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QUOTE(HumanFly @ Mar 31 2017, 05:37 PM) *

Ops, shame Warhammer was playable from Skirmish to Warbands to Massive Battles ( the idea of Path to Glory for EwwGross-aos was taken from Warhammer).
But yes blame customers and Warhammer as Warhammer, afterall GW is infallible.



Nobody has said you can't play WHFB on whatever scale you want.

What is true is that after thirty years of doing slight variations on a theme, the player base was dwindling. The rules and concepts were stale, the game wasn't attracting new players, and GW wasn't making money.

GW is a company that frequently gets things wrong, but I think AoS is just what the fantasy side of the business needed.

This post has been edited by wazron: Apr 4 2017, 11:21 PM


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QUOTE(Tiny @ Feb 17 2011, 03:13 PM) *

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slayerofmen
post Apr 5 2017, 11:08 AM
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AoS maybe what the fantasy side needed but it definitely deserved a better launch and execution


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6d6
post Apr 7 2017, 11:25 AM
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QUOTE(Arch_Magos_Kasen @ Mar 20 2017, 05:18 PM) *

These are not the rules. Stop it. They are no more an actual part of AoS than the Movie Space Marine list from ~White Dwarf 301 that had rules for stunt doubles. They were a light hearted placeholder to tide over existing players until all the actual rules for AoS could be published. But the community of children that we are threw a massive tantrum about it. As usual.

But otherwise, Jimbo, you sound so reasonable and rational. What changed man?


Yeah Jimbo. Geez. Everyone knows AOS rules are move your models forward into the moshpit and roll 4ups.


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Jimbo81
post Apr 7 2017, 12:06 PM
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QUOTE(6d6 @ Apr 7 2017, 11:25 AM) *

Yeah Jimbo. Geez. Everyone knows AOS rules are move your models forward into the moshpit and roll 4ups.

THAT was your takeaway from his statement? I'm still stuck on the mature and reasonable comments...


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Roark
post Apr 30 2017, 09:49 PM
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QUOTE(6d6 @ Apr 7 2017, 11:25 AM) *

Yeah Jimbo. Geez. Everyone knows AOS rules are move your models forward into the moshpit and roll 4ups.


I actually used to think this... armata_PDT_04.gif
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