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> 1500 pts Nidzilla, How would you beat this?
D4rKn3sS
post Sep 30 2014, 10:53 AM
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So I'm preparing my Tyranids for Geelong Heresy and want to run a Nidzilla list because it's so different from how I normally play. In that sense, I want to know how people would defeat this list, and what I can do to stymie that.

1500 pts

Hive Tyrant: Wings, 2x TL-Devourers, Electroshock Grubs

Malanthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

3x Ripper Swarms: Deep Strike
3x Ripper Swarms: Deep Strike

Hive Crone

3x Carnifexes: 3x2xTL-Devourers
Exocrine
Tyrannofex: Electroshock Grubs

There's a few points left here and there, but that's the main army. So what I'm asking is, what should I be scared of? How could I shore up my defences against it without compromising what I'm trying to run?


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A child once asked me how I came to be such a cruel and twisted person. I calmly replied that I have the heart of a young boy...in a jar next to his brain.

WITHOUT PIE THERE IS ONLY CHAOS!!!!

People don't realise that Ninjas will inherit the earth. Stupid meek.
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ThatWallyGuy
post Sep 30 2014, 11:11 AM
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Well first thing to be scared off is Dark Eldar.

Next up a Deamon army or Tau can/will make a mess of you, Eldar are always a issue.

Any large numbers list that will play the objective game on you.

Personally just to give you more numbers i would drop the rippers and tyrannofex and take gaunts and Tervigon as troops

This post has been edited by ThatWallyGuy: Sep 30 2014, 11:13 AM


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Dark
post Sep 30 2014, 11:13 AM
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QUOTE(D4rKn3sS @ Sep 30 2014, 10:53 AM) *

So I'm preparing my Tyranids for Geelong Heresy and want to run a Nidzilla list because it's so different from how I normally play. In that sense, I want to know how people would defeat this list, and what I can do to stymie that.

1500 pts

Hive Tyrant: Wings, 2x TL-Devourers, Electroshock Grubs

Malanthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

3x Ripper Swarms: Deep Strike
3x Ripper Swarms: Deep Strike

Hive Crone

3x Carnifexes: 3x2xTL-Devourers
Exocrine
Tyrannofex: Electroshock Grubs

There's a few points left here and there, but that's the main army. So what I'm asking is, what should I be scared of? How could I shore up my defences against it without compromising what I'm trying to run?


One thing I know of that will murder this army very fast like turn 3-4 if don't right grey knights with hammer hand and force weapons in assaults there are hitting you first and can instant kill every thing. There is very little you can do to prevent this the only thing would be more zoanathropes to get as much feel no pain as you can. Maybe try and change a weapon or two to a high AP to try and remove armour saves of models Ap3+ would help if you can

This post has been edited by Dark: Sep 30 2014, 11:17 AM
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D4rKn3sS
post Sep 30 2014, 11:45 AM
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I figured Dark Eldar and Eldar were going to be a problem. Wave Serpents are difficult for Tyranids to deal with, and the match-up with Dark Eldar has never been too favourable to Tyranids.

Tyranids don't really have much AP3/AP2 with shooting. The only thing we really have is the Exocrine, which does mess them up pretty well. I've actually found that forcing lots of saves with Devourers is a good way of taking down small numbers of high armour units.

Taking gaunts and a Tervigon isn't a bad idea for troops. I'll have to playtest it to see how we go.


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A child once asked me how I came to be such a cruel and twisted person. I calmly replied that I have the heart of a young boy...in a jar next to his brain.

WITHOUT PIE THERE IS ONLY CHAOS!!!!

People don't realise that Ninjas will inherit the earth. Stupid meek.
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Blackhearts Reaver
post Sep 30 2014, 11:46 AM
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you are basically relying on the HT and carnifex shooting (all 18") and some single Zoaps for hv armour.... and then MC h2h to finish off

-DE poison
-Marine grav
-Daemons shooting/rending spam+summoning
Eldar Shurcan rending light
-Anything fast that has som anti air. (say marine list with typhoons/flyers)
- Droppod/Deepstrike plas/grav alpha strike lists
-Tau multishot Str7 or Rail AP1
-ork rokit spam (yikes a mean list could field 50 rokits in 1500 some twlinked....= 17Str8 AP3 hits or 8-9 hits on flyers...)
-anything with good h2h and invulnerable 3++ (eg necron wraiths/TH+SS/GK force+SS/
-anything with High str h2h/rending that has higher iniative (dreadknights, anything IC hv force using, Slanessh/Eldar/Thunderwolves/ etc)

Basically alot of the current tough lists being played....

at 1500 I would diversify you shooting.

For the price 1 carnifex you could adding in 3 hiveguard giving you some more AT/instant death shooting (it works well to shoot out a unit with the Tw Dev units and then instagib the IC with the hive guard on failed armoursaves....

you trade 12 shots tw str6 18" for 6 shots of NO LOS no cove Str8 rg24" and gain 2 wds......

aegis would help .....

I know you are going nidzilla but the tyranofex adds little to the list. I t give you something to ram down their throat to pull shooting off the other MC but its could really be alot more usefull to you as more carnifex or exocrine or swarms or zoaps or HT

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Sep 30 2014, 12:05 PM


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Dark
post Sep 30 2014, 12:11 PM
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QUOTE(Blackhearts Reaver @ Sep 30 2014, 11:46 AM) *

you are basically relying on the HT and carnifex shooting (all 18") and some single Zoaps for hv armour.... and then MC h2h to finish off

-DE poison
-Marine grav
-Daemons shooting/rending spam+summoning
Eldar Shurcan rending light
-Anything fast that has som anti air. (say marine list with typhoons/flyers)
- Droppod/Deepstrike plas/grav alpha strike lists
-Tau multishot Str7 or Rail AP1
-ork rokit spam (yikes a mean list could field 50 rokits in 1500 some twlinked....= 17Str8 AP3 hits or 8-9 hits on flyers...)
-anything with good h2h and invulnerable 3++ (eg necron wraiths/TH+SS/GK force+SS/
-anything with High str h2h/rending that has higher iniative (dreadknights, anything IC hv force using, Slanessh/Eldar/Thunderwolves/ etc)

Basically alot of the current tough lists being played....

at 1500 I would diversify you shooting.

For the price 1 carnifex you could adding in 3 hiveguard giving you some more AT/instant death shooting (it works well to shoot out a unit with the Tw Dev units and then instagib the IC with the hive guard on failed armoursaves....

you trade 12 shots tw str6 18" for 6 shots of NO LOS no cove Str8 rg24" and gain 2 wds......

aegis would help .....

I know you are going nidzilla but the tyranofex adds little to the list. I t give you something to ram down their throat to pull shooting off the other MC but its could really be alot more usefull to you as more carnifex or exocrine or swarms or zoaps or HT


With the grey knight army it's not just the Dreadknight you need to watch a full list of interceptors casting hammer hand and force S6 instant death your high T values mean nothing when they hit you first with S6 AP3 instant death they only need to score one wound and your big bugs dead. With teleport they can be ontop of you turn one if they wanted to with 3+ saves and a 10man unit you mite kill 3-5 if your lucky then next turn your dead or run the same ten man unit as combat squads attacking from the front and rear you can not kill both squads in one turn and all they need is one turn in CC to kill you
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Dark
post Sep 30 2014, 12:28 PM
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If it was me I would use a list like this....


Grey Knights 2014 2 (Grey Knights 2014) 1,500 points
HQ 90 points (6%)
Tech marine (90)

WS4BS4S4T4W1I4A1Ld8Sv2+
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); Power Axe; Boltgun (Servo-Harness); Artificer Armour; Frag

Troops 300 points (20%)
5 Strike Squad (135)

WS4BS4S4T4W1I4A1Ld8Sv3+
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); 5 Nemesis warding stave; 5 Storm Bolter; Power Armour;

Rhino (35)

BS4F11S11R10HP3
Storm Bolter; smoke launchers; search light
Repair

5 Strike Squad (130)

WS4BS4S4T4W1I4A1Ld8Sv3+
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); Nemesis force sword; 4 Nemesis warding stave; 5 Storm

Fast Attack 660 points (44%)
10 Interceptor Squad (330)
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); 10 Nemesis warding stave; Storm Bolter; 2 Psilencer;

10 Interceptor Squad (330)
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); 10 Nemesis warding stave; Storm Bolter; 2 Psilencer;

Heavy Support 450 points (30%)
Nemesis Dreadknight (220)
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); Nemesis Great sword; Power Fist; Personal Teleporter; Heavy Incinerator; Gatling psilencer


Nemesis Dreadknight (230)
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); Nemesis Great sword; Power Fist; Personal Teleporter; Gatling psilencer; Gatling psilencer


With warding staves the models are S6 with hammer hand they are now S8 with AP4.
You would get your save on most of the big bugs (I think your save is 3+ I mite be wrong) but I'm wounding you on 2+ with instant death.

Or I would take it with out all the warding staves and just use the basic force sword and wound on 4+ with Ap3 instant death either or with out the warding stave it gives me back 200-250 points there is a storm raven. Witch is more likely the way I would go just so I had anti air and a flying transport for the other troops choose
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ThatWallyGuy
post Sep 30 2014, 12:50 PM
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Good work you made a anti MC list..

Which is all good when you are expecting to face MC's, but in a tourney setting not so great


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D4rKn3sS
post Sep 30 2014, 01:14 PM
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Hmm, this has given me a lot to think about. I don't want to run a Skyblight formation, but by the sounds of it I need more MCs in the sky. Many of the problems you guys have listed are ones that Tyranids have against those armies in general, so I'm kind of wracking my brain trying to figure out how to fight them.

I'm thinking of dropping the Tyrannofex for another Flying Hive Tyrant or another Exocrine to try and help my chances against power armour/terminator type lists, but there isn't too much I can do against combat stuff. Unless I could find a way to put in a Dimachamaeron.


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A child once asked me how I came to be such a cruel and twisted person. I calmly replied that I have the heart of a young boy...in a jar next to his brain.

WITHOUT PIE THERE IS ONLY CHAOS!!!!

People don't realise that Ninjas will inherit the earth. Stupid meek.
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ThatWallyGuy
post Sep 30 2014, 01:20 PM
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QUOTE(D4rKn3sS @ Sep 30 2014, 01:14 PM) *

Hmm, this has given me a lot to think about. I don't want to run a Skyblight formation, but by the sounds of it I need more MCs in the sky. Many of the problems you guys have listed are ones that Tyranids have against those armies in general, so I'm kind of wracking my brain trying to figure out how to fight them.


The thing with Nids, is that you need to specialize in a aspect and then make sure you have the synergy to pull it off, you either have a great CC capability, but lose out of shooting and defense.. Have good shooting but lose out of CC or you have defensive and lose long range and CC.

What makes skyblight good isn't really the FMC's but the gargoyles


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jimjimjimmyjim
post Sep 30 2014, 02:03 PM
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QUOTE(Dark @ Sep 30 2014, 11:13 AM) *

One thing I know of that will murder this army very fast like turn 3-4 if don't right grey knights with hammer hand and force weapons in assaults there are hitting you first and can instant kill every thing. There is very little you can do to prevent this the only thing would be more zoanathropes to get as much feel no pain as you can. Maybe try and change a weapon or two to a high AP to try and remove armour saves of models Ap3+ would help if you can

You can't get FnP against force weapons that are activated.

It is nasty tho!


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jimjimjimmyjim
post Sep 30 2014, 02:13 PM
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QUOTE(Dark @ Sep 30 2014, 12:28 PM) *

If it was me I would use a list like this....
Grey Knights 2014 2 (Grey Knights 2014) 1,500 points
HQ 90 points (6%)
Tech marine (90)

WS4BS4S4T4W1I4A1Ld8Sv2+
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); Power Axe; Boltgun (Servo-Harness); Artificer Armour; Frag

Troops 300 points (20%)
5 Strike Squad (135)

WS4BS4S4T4W1I4A1Ld8Sv3+
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); 5 Nemesis warding stave; 5 Storm Bolter; Power Armour;

Rhino (35)

BS4F11S11R10HP3
Storm Bolter; smoke launchers; search light
Repair

5 Strike Squad (130)

WS4BS4S4T4W1I4A1Ld8Sv3+
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); Nemesis force sword; 4 Nemesis warding stave; 5 Storm

Fast Attack 660 points (44%)
10 Interceptor Squad (330)
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); 10 Nemesis warding stave; Storm Bolter; 2 Psilencer;

10 Interceptor Squad (330)
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); 10 Nemesis warding stave; Storm Bolter; 2 Psilencer;

Heavy Support 450 points (30%)
Nemesis Dreadknight (220)
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); Nemesis Great sword; Power Fist; Personal Teleporter; Heavy Incinerator; Gatling psilencer
Nemesis Dreadknight (230)
Daemonology Sanctic (Banishment; Hammerhand); Nemesis Great sword; Power Fist; Personal Teleporter; Gatling psilencer; Gatling psilencer
With warding staves the models are S6 with hammer hand they are now S8 with AP4.
You would get your save on most of the big bugs (I think your save is 3+ I mite be wrong) but I'm wounding you on 2+ with instant death.

Or I would take it with out all the warding staves and just use the basic force sword and wound on 4+ with Ap3 instant death either or with out the warding stave it gives me back 200-250 points there is a storm raven. Witch is more likely the way I would go just so I had anti air and a flying transport for the other troops choose

You can't take the tech priest as your required hq

Orks can work quite effectively against nidzilla lists, traktor kannons are an almost auto include in most tournament ork lists.

After your flyers are grounded you can take them down from sheer mass of weight from ork shooting.


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Dark
post Sep 30 2014, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE(jimjimjimmyjim @ Sep 30 2014, 02:13 PM) *

You can't take the tech priest as your required hq

Orks can work quite effectively against nidzilla lists, traktor kannons are an almost auto include in most tournament ork lists.

After your flyers are grounded you can take them down from sheer mass of weight from ork shooting.


Where does it say a tech marine can not be your hq


QUOTE(ThatWallyGuy @ Sep 30 2014, 12:50 PM) *

Good work you made a anti MC list..

Which is all good when you are expecting to face MC's, but in a tourney setting not so great

Who said that list was anti MC it's a good attack based army that is good at getting up and in to the other players face and killing anything in CC the storm Bolters give pretty good shooting.... It's not great shooting but it can hold its own yes it is a good list for killing high T value but also good at killing anything really
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Blackhearts Reaver
post Oct 1 2014, 12:59 AM
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Dark

just so you know 3x carnifex+HT is 48 str6 twlinked= 36 hit=30 wd=10 dead marines/turn + the rest of the list. you attacking fire does about from 1 squad does about 1-2 wds on T6 3+.

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Oct 1 2014, 01:06 AM


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Retired from Competitive play sometime early? 2013

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jimjimjimmyjim
post Oct 1 2014, 01:00 AM
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Fairly certain its in the tech priests entry, I think you can only have one for each hq choice chosen, but I may be wrong, it was about a month ago since I last read it


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Dark
post Oct 1 2014, 05:55 AM
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QUOTE(Blackhearts Reaver @ Oct 1 2014, 12:59 AM) *

Dark

just so you know 3x carnifex+HT is 48 str6 twlinked= 36 hit=30 wd=10 dead marines/turn + the rest of the list. you attacking fire does about from 1 squad does about 1-2 wds on T6 3+.



Last time I looked NIDS could not split fire so those 36 hits you speak of as I said in my post you can not kill 10 marines if they have broken down to combat squads your unit would shoot at 5 of them and kill 5 then the other charge you and well ap3 S6 instant death
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jimjimjimmyjim
post Oct 1 2014, 07:12 AM
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Its all hypothetical dark, don't take it too literal


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Dark
post Oct 1 2014, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE(Blackhearts Reaver @ Oct 1 2014, 12:59 AM) *

Dark

just so you know 3x carnifex+HT is 48 str6 twlinked= 36 hit=30 wd=10 dead marines/turn + the rest of the list. you attacking fire does about from 1 squad does about 1-2 wds on T6 3+.


I think you made a mistake on you numbers the carniefex's have 36 shots at bs 3 needing 4 to hit they have a 50% chance to hit so 18 hit 18 re roll 9 more hit making 9 that fail fully. From there 2+ to wound 27 rolls say 4-5 fail. Meaning 22 wounds. Grey knights have3+ save so say 5-6 fail leaves 4 in the ten man unit alive.

The HT 12 shots 3 the hit say 4 fail re roll them missing 1-2 that's 10 shot that wound same thing say 2-3 fail leaves 1-2 grey knights alive.

Leadership 9 not to hard to fail there so they stay and then charge.

If your going to work on what ifs and maybes at least do the numbers right.

I did 10 test rolls on 48 dice the average hits with re rolls was 29. You close but you are working on best case, when you should be working on the average or worst case.


As for your 3+ saves they mean nothing when my weapons are AP3, you would not get your save they wound just die as I said S4AP3 with hammer hand making it S6 AP3 very easy to kill the carniefex's and HT with grey knights

QUOTE(jimjimjimmyjim @ Oct 1 2014, 07:12 AM) *

Its all hypothetical dark, don't take it too literal



I know it's hypothetical mate but he did ignore the details I placed about being combat squads and AP3 weapons.
I was only clearing up what I said in the first place and showing a small problem with his idea
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Æon
post Oct 1 2014, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE(jimjimjimmyjim @ Oct 1 2014, 01:00 AM) *

Fairly certain its in the tech priests entry, I think you can only have one for each hq choice chosen, but I may be wrong, it was about a month ago since I last read it


When you aren't sure of a rule, please put iirc after it (if I recall correctly) or if you are sure of it, provide a page reference (not just you, everyone)

This way people know that you aren't guessing or that it's to the best of your memory if you are.


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Dark
post Oct 1 2014, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE(jimjimjimmyjim @ Oct 1 2014, 01:00 AM) *

Fairly certain its in the tech priests entry, I think you can only have one for each hq choice chosen, but I may be wrong, it was about a month ago since I last read it


Sorry jim but you are incorrect the new grey knight codexs stats that you can include and extra tech marine for each hq's you have excluding the tech marine ie if you have a captain you can take a tech marine with out it using a force org slot. If you take a tech marine as a hq's you can not get a free tech mainre.

I hope I worded this so you can under stand. If not ill copyright the entry from the codex with all rights reserved to Games workshop
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