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WargamerAU Forums _ 40k General Discussion _ vanilla marines in 8th ed - what are your favourite / auto-include units?

Posted by: dvaston Aug 13 2018, 02:22 PM

Am in the process of trying to build up my marines for 8th edition. Have only played couple of very small test games at this stage, so still trying to figure out whats good and whats not.

Just wanted to get some advice on what are the best (vanilla) marine units under 8th edition?

From doing some research, it seems like Captain & Lieutenant are meant to be good HQs for their re-roll buffs. Scouts are meant to be good for screening and keeping enemy deepstrikers away from your other units. 10 man Devastator squads seems to be good.

Are vehicles worth taking? They seem kind of fragile against high-wound weapons.

What units do you always take in your marine lists?

And if you are not a marine player, what marine units do you regularly face against on the other side of the table?

Interested to hear opinions. Thanks.

Posted by: Blackhearts Reaver Aug 13 2018, 10:07 PM

It really comes down to the Chapter you are building. The stratgems, relics and chapter tactics change the units worth a great deal. Do you know which chapter you are building?

If you are just looking for the best units int eh best chapter.... how long is a piece of string....

Posted by: dvaston Aug 14 2018, 02:30 PM

Thats a fair point. Sorry I probably should of been more specific.

Myself I am thinking of using Raven Guard chapter tactics.

What I was trying to do was get a discussion started of what are the "auto-include" type units that are regularly used in marine lists now with 8th edition. Maybe they are costed really well, or provide good synergy to the rest of an army. And also why people like to use them.

I have done some research online, but I would like to hear from the local players here at WAU, with some examples of what worked and what didn't e.g. in local Aus tournaments etc.

e.g. Hellblasters don't seem that great to me on paper, but I have seen them appearing in a few army lists online. Would like to get a practical idea of if they are a viable unit.

Anyways - maybe this is too broad a subject, maybe its better to just post something in the army list forum instead (so can discuss an entire army list in its context), but just thought it would be interesting to hear from other local Aus players.

Posted by: Blackhearts Reaver Aug 14 2018, 11:49 PM

just look for tournament lists for raven guard...... it is a popular chapter now. Suprise suprise. wink.gif

Chapter master (captain + 3 CP points) and a lieutenant = reroll hits and reroll 1's to wound....
pretty huge for any firebase.

Lists still come down to handling certain enemy threats:
- enough rg AT/melta/mortalwound dealers to kill an imperial knight in a turn (T8 24-28 wds 3+ 5++ )
- a decent amount of chaff killer (bolters/ hv bolters/ flamers/ etc)
- maybe some hv infantry/ light armour weapons. these must deal 2 or 3 or d3 damage. (plasma/ Autocanons/ some weird new weapons like Flamestorms/Grav/alot of special characters guns/astartes grenade launchers /

If you aren't going a full on assault list (really the realm of BA or SW) you still need more than 1 beefy Character, so you can push units off objectives in the pointy end of the game. this can sometimes be supplied by adding PW and or PP to sgts (cheap and hidden effective h2h in remnant units late game). a good crossover unit like terminators or 2-3 beefy h2h characters (like guillarme/ calgar/ lysander/ khan/ libbie with the right powers/ etc) might be enough. Generally you wont be able to shoot someone completely off the table unless they are a n00b.

Posted by: Tom Aug 15 2018, 11:26 AM

Twin Assault Cannon Razorbacks are pretty great

Using the Raven Guard strat to infiltrate fast melee units or Aggressors is strong too.

Plasmaguns are widely regarded as the best weapon in the game

Posted by: dvaston Aug 15 2018, 12:55 PM

Thanks guys.
Good point need to have some kind of assault elements even if you are not running a full assaulty army.
Am thinking of trying some twin assault cannon razorbacks.

I guess you need a decent number of T7 vehicles (3 - 4+?) in your list to ensure some survive past the first turn right? Only having 1-2 T7 vehicles they would probably be focus fired on and die before they get to do much?

Posted by: Blackhearts Reaver Aug 15 2018, 05:38 PM

Having a few high T7+ 10+ wounds are good even if they die. if your enemy uses 70-80% of there firepower each turn to kill one 100 point unit you are ahead. AC razors are good but (Str6 -1ap 1damage) can't be your main source of firepower. When it goes up against T7-8 (3+ or 2+) it is still useful (with lots of rerolls) but you don't want to be relying on it solely.
Guess how many shots you need to kill T8 28 wd 3+ castellan= 189-170 ish.... so at 12 per razor you need 15 razors turns so 5 ac razors for 3 full turns.... how many do you think that army will kill while you are trying. smile.gif

Have to agree Plasma in most of its forms is a fairly good multipurpose. It need the ability to go to overcharge str8 (to wound T7-8 better). A smattering of hard to kill 1d6 damage at range/drop melta) is necessary to tear chunks out.

you also need enough cheap chaff (about 40-70 wds of say 3-7pt models) to at least be able to screen your firebase/important stuff to stop turn 2 beta strike (shooting) or fast assaults. + There are plenty of move unit twice and assault (nids/CSM/celestine/ etc)/ infiltrate+shoot or assault(ravenguard aggressors/ Admech electro priest / etc), Scout+shoot(sisters dominions/etc), GSC special assault etc.

You need to be able to keep them at arm's length (9" + a bigger ring or at least 4" gaps to the second line). One extra turn of your brutal shooting often turns these types of games.

Posted by: Emperor Fooble Sep 1 2018, 01:50 PM

I'm a big fan of company veterans, either on foot or mounted on bikes, with a stormbolter and chainsword. Puts out a mass of attacks in both shooting and combat.

Bikes I tinker with giving them a stormshield or two, and sometimes one or two thunder hammers. But 5 guys dumping 40 bolter shots is pretty effective at clearing out the ever common hordes.

Posted by: dvaston Sep 21 2018, 01:47 PM

QUOTE(Emperor Fooble @ Sep 1 2018, 01:50 PM) *

I'm a big fan of company veterans, either on foot or mounted on bikes, with a stormbolter and chainsword. Puts out a mass of attacks in both shooting and combat.

Bikes I tinker with giving them a stormshield or two, and sometimes one or two thunder hammers. But 5 guys dumping 40 bolter shots is pretty effective at clearing out the ever common hordes.

Thats a good point, I was looking at company veteran bike squad from the Index Imperium 1 book. They are nice, with storm bolters they can put out 20 shots at 24" range, or 40 shots at 12" range, plus with chainswords you get 15(?) attacks in combat. However I think they ended up being fairly expensive nearly 190-200 points - wihout adding extra toys like storm shields, hammers etc (dont have the book in front of me to check though).

company veterans with storm bolters on foot could be ok, but I would wonder about what delivery mechanism to use for them - drop pods would be good, but they are just so expensive now in 8th edition. You could put them in a rhino / razorback, but disembarkation happens before the transport vehicle moves now (?) so it would be hard to get the vets into rapid fire range safely.

Another option I found was scout bikers with storm bolter on the sarge. For 77 points you get 8 shots at 24" range and 22 shots at 12" range, plus 7 attacks in combat. Since they all come with shotguns and combat knives.
Seems like a good unit, the only disadvantage is having a 4+ armour save.

Strangely though the Blood Angel and Dark angel versions of scout bikers can't take storm bolters on the sargent. Not sure if thats a typo, or if the regular marine codex would get erratad to follow suit.

Posted by: LimitedSlip Nov 10 2018, 04:32 PM

Razorbacks are great, both assault cannon and lascannon variants. Bikes are also great if you can keep plasma at bay. I like Sternguard personally, but I don't think they are an auto-include.

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