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> Shadow War vs Necromunda
Krefey
post Apr 26 2017, 01:36 PM
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Had some games of Shadow War last night, certainly felt like the old necromunda, with a few interesting (and in some cases surprising) changes.

- sustained fire is just a D3, no jam results and each shot is fired separately like the updated version of Necro (so potential for multiple ammo rolls)
- parry works differently. Now you can only parry if the opponent's dice value is higher than your highest dice. So if you both have 1 attack and both roll a 5, you aren't allowed to parry. This was the most surprising change for me.
- skills are rolled as 2D6 pick which skill from that roll you want.
- getting a skill is now the easiest advance to get, being from 5-9. I assume they did this to limit statistic advances so you don't end up with some WS / BS 10 monster.
- Income is spend it or lose it (in campaign mode)
- Ammo rolls are on 2D6 now

The rest of it played pretty much like Necro used to as far as I could tell.


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Borzag
post Apr 26 2017, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE(Krefey @ Apr 26 2017, 01:36 PM) *

Had some games of Shadow War last night, certainly felt like the old necromunda, with a few interesting (and in some cases surprising) changes.

- sustained fire is just a D3, no jam results and each shot is fired separately like the updated version of Necro (so potential for multiple ammo rolls)
- parry works differently. Now you can only parry if the opponent's dice value is higher than your highest dice. So if you both have 1 attack and both roll a 5, you aren't allowed to parry. This was the most surprising change for me.
- skills are rolled as 2D6 pick which skill from that roll you want.
- getting a skill is now the easiest advance to get, being from 5-9. I assume they did this to limit statistic advances so you don't end up with some WS / BS 10 monster.
- Income is spend it or lose it (in campaign mode)
- Ammo rolls are on 2D6 now

The rest of it played pretty much like Necro used to as far as I could tell.

We had a SW:A event up here at IF on the weekend. My Guard Astra Milicyrus got spanked around the table for a bit smile.gif pretty good fun actually.

Parry: MORDHEIM parry. Actually seemed legit. Don't think it came up all that much though as my main CC dude had Frenzy (no parry for you, you crazy bastard).

The big thing is the missions; we had one round where aside from one guy, everyone had finished within the first 20 minutes. So you are going to have to keep an eye on those, as some do favour certain builds.

Other than that I rate it smile.gif

EDIT: One thing that may need to be clarified, for Skills you roll 2D6 *ON THE SAME TABLE*. No "I don't know which table I want so I'll go for one of each" shenanigans. You've got more control on which skill you want as is, deal with it. Oh and if you roll doubles, reroll one.

Again, I rate it smile.gif


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QUOTE(Bajau @ Nov 14 2007, 06:56 PM) *
Mate I'll pay MONEY to sit there and watch Jose get Whupped..Never seen someone lose which such style!
QUOTE(Big_al @ Nov 3 2008, 08:46 PM) *
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QUOTE(Wombats @ Aug 8 2012, 11:00 AM) *
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QUOTE(Borzag @ May 3 2013, 09:21 PM) *
it's now gotten to the point where I have a Pavlovian montage response: if montage music plays, I lift and/or burpees
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Kordos
post Apr 26 2017, 02:33 PM
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I found, (and enjoyed) that the game was less punishing than Necro or Gorkamorka

Even if you lost a mission or two you could still fight and advance and were not crazy outclassed

I remember playing Gorkamorka and Necromunda and if you lost a few missions you could very easily be in a situation where you were better off restarting your gang


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Krefey
post Apr 26 2017, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE(Kordos @ Apr 26 2017, 02:33 PM) *

I found, (and enjoyed) that the game was less punishing than Necro or Gorkamorka

Even if you lost a mission or two you could still fight and advance and were not crazy outclassed

I remember playing Gorkamorka and Necromunda and if you lost a few missions you could very easily be in a situation where you were better off restarting your gang


that's true. They changed the injury table. It's a d6 roll now, not d66

the other thing to note is that the weaker kill teams like guard and stealer cults are likely to come into their own later in a campaign once they've buffed their numbers. The league I'm playing in, a chaos player lost his chaos marine leader in the 2nd game. Not going to be able to replace that casualty easily.


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Borzag
post Apr 27 2017, 10:52 AM
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Random, but Kref was it you trying to run Necro events @ CanCon? I ask as I get the distinct impression you'd have more success with SW:A.

- Broader appeal: No-one's limited by house gangs, just rock up with your army's particular kill team and you're good.

- Easier progression: As mentioned it's very point and click, no need to track anything bar caches (more on that in a tick) and levelling/injury is a piece of piss.

- Defined win conditions: Dem Promethium Caches. What we did at the last event was use those as the first condition for winning (most caches = win). Now admittedly this may favour a few people who get a few lucky wins in but scenarios and incentives to take Specialists can fix that.

Just a thought.


--------------------
QUOTE(Bajau @ Nov 14 2007, 06:56 PM) *
Mate I'll pay MONEY to sit there and watch Jose get Whupped..Never seen someone lose which such style!
QUOTE(Big_al @ Nov 3 2008, 08:46 PM) *
The first rule about fight club is that you have to fight borzag
QUOTE(Wombats @ Aug 8 2012, 11:00 AM) *
Excuse me, I need to go change into tighter pants, there are some people in a ten mile radious who do not have intimate knowledge of my junk.
QUOTE(Borzag @ May 3 2013, 09:21 PM) *
it's now gotten to the point where I have a Pavlovian montage response: if montage music plays, I lift and/or burpees
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Krefey
post Apr 27 2017, 11:42 AM
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QUOTE(Borzag @ Apr 27 2017, 10:52 AM) *

Random, but Kref was it you trying to run Necro events @ CanCon? I ask as I get the distinct impression you'd have more success with SW:A.

- Broader appeal: No-one's limited by house gangs, just rock up with your army's particular kill team and you're good.

- Easier progression: As mentioned it's very point and click, no need to track anything bar caches (more on that in a tick) and levelling/injury is a piece of piss.

- Defined win conditions: Dem Promethium Caches. What we did at the last event was use those as the first condition for winning (most caches = win). Now admittedly this may favour a few people who get a few lucky wins in but scenarios and incentives to take Specialists can fix that.

Just a thought.


I'm seriously considering doing so next year. Especially if I get my laser woes sorted so I can start making some shadow war terrain. The league structure we are using at Jolt I think is "winning" based on promethium cache count at the end of the league duration. But I'm not 100% sure.

The main issue for me there is that winning generates a random number of promethium caches


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Borzag
post Apr 27 2017, 11:47 AM
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That's what the rules pack is for wink.gif

Say that winning = X amount of caches (fixed) but tokens on the board = a random roll. You've got incentive to run out and grab some, as well as aggressively stopping others from doing so.

THAT SAID. This is actually something we had issues with in our little corner up here; with some skills and some teams it was possible to grab & return tokens before the game. Or all on turn 1 (Harlequins I'm looking at you here). So may want to stop that.


--------------------
QUOTE(Bajau @ Nov 14 2007, 06:56 PM) *
Mate I'll pay MONEY to sit there and watch Jose get Whupped..Never seen someone lose which such style!
QUOTE(Big_al @ Nov 3 2008, 08:46 PM) *
The first rule about fight club is that you have to fight borzag
QUOTE(Wombats @ Aug 8 2012, 11:00 AM) *
Excuse me, I need to go change into tighter pants, there are some people in a ten mile radious who do not have intimate knowledge of my junk.
QUOTE(Borzag @ May 3 2013, 09:21 PM) *
it's now gotten to the point where I have a Pavlovian montage response: if montage music plays, I lift and/or burpees
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iz.hans.iz.good
post Apr 27 2017, 07:45 PM
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QUOTE(Krefey @ Apr 26 2017, 01:36 PM) *

Had some games of Shadow War last night, certainly felt like the old necromunda, with a few interesting (and in some cases surprising) changes.

- sustained fire is just a D3, no jam results and each shot is fired separately like the updated version of Necro (so potential for multiple ammo rolls)
- parry works differently. Now you can only parry if the opponent's dice value is higher than your highest dice. So if you both have 1 attack and both roll a 5, you aren't allowed to parry. This was the most surprising change for me.
- skills are rolled as 2D6 pick which skill from that roll you want.
- getting a skill is now the easiest advance to get, being from 5-9. I assume they did this to limit statistic advances so you don't end up with some WS / BS 10 monster.
- Income is spend it or lose it (in campaign mode)
- Ammo rolls are on 2D6 now

The rest of it played pretty much like Necro used to as far as I could tell.

Seems lot like NCE
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ThatWallyGuy
post Apr 29 2017, 06:36 PM
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Yeah in the end I prefer Necro.. but with this game it is alot easier to have a start and end point and less modeling requirements


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Stumphy
post May 1 2017, 04:26 PM
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played a game last weekend

much prefer it to 40K, felt much more tactical.

however, they need to balance the weapons a little.

my friend took Tau, and weirdly they only get pathfinders, so all his guys have range 18

by comparison I had Skitarrii so all mine had 30 AND I had an arquebus, so I smash one of his guys across the table the instant he broke deployment cover.

he then spent the entire game petrified and scurrying from cover to cover.

now, good points were that apart from that initial shot on my standard move, I really pushed to get a second shot with the arquebus. Overwatch is appropriately difficult and I like the initiative roll to see if you can even get the shot off, but just the threat of 72 inch range scared the crap out of someone with 18 inch range.

my point here being range is king in many ways.
having one expensive unit on high ground with a long range weapon can really dominate the field.

I think he could have used cover better, but even without the arquebus it was still range 30 vs 18 which is really tough


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Krefey
post May 2 2017, 09:53 AM
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I feel that more terrain is needed. The tables I've played on, while reasonably dense, need more nooks and crannies and to be able to stop a sniper weapon setting up shop and covering most of the table.


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panzerallan
post May 3 2017, 04:27 PM
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Maybe more low rise stuff a la an Infinity table? The new GW kits are nice but they seem to encourage height over sprawl.


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Maxo_Q
post May 3 2017, 05:10 PM
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Terrain density was always an issue with necromunda as well. As a rule of thumb if a model can move in a straight line for mor than 4 inches its not tight enough packed.
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Mango
post May 3 2017, 06:49 PM
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QUOTE(panzerallan @ May 3 2017, 03:57 PM) *

Maybe more low rise stuff a la an Infinity table? The new GW kits are nice but they seem to encourage height over sprawl.


Our old Necro gaming group always preferred sprawl to height using mainly level 1 with the rare level 2 as maximum height.

The extra moves (and game turns) required to try and get to a model up top didnt add anything to the game, it actually made the game less fun especially so when some gangs got vents as a territory and could put d3 of their guys up high wherever they liked.

But that was just us, i know some people live the 'spire' sort of feel
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Chaplain_Fortis
post May 3 2017, 10:57 PM
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Initiative test for fleeting target, -1 for being on overwatch and -1 for running and you're still finding shooting dominant? yikes!


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Stumphy
post May 4 2017, 10:36 PM
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Skitarii have BS 4 and the Arquebus as +1 at long range, so an early shot is achievable if line of sight pops up


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Krefey
post May 5 2017, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE(Stumphy @ May 4 2017, 10:36 PM) *

Skitarii have BS 4 and the Arquebus as +1 at long range, so an early shot is achievable if line of sight pops up


Add a red dot laser sight and a photo visor and you're doing even better (I'm playing skitarri in the local league).


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Chaplain_Fortis
post May 5 2017, 03:12 PM
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Seems pricey. Don't forget you have to shoot the closest model as well. I can't see it going too well against cultist spam. Have people not twigged to running bullet catchers in this game yet?


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Krefey
post May 5 2017, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE(Chaplain_Fortis @ May 5 2017, 03:12 PM) *

Seems pricey. Don't forget you have to shoot the closest model as well. I can't see it going too well against cultist spam. Have people not twigged to running bullet catchers in this game yet?


Doesn't look like it. Plus skitarri don't get cheap bullet catchers.


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Chaplain_Fortis
post May 5 2017, 03:33 PM
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Well that would explain why they get long ranged murderers


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