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WargamerAU Forums _ GW large scale games _ Heresy Legions playtesters pack PDF

Posted by: fattdex Aug 6 2013, 03:16 PM

Version 0.8.6 is now out at the new home of heresy, EpicAU
http://epicau.com/wp/
http://epicau.com/wp/latest-horus-heresy-supplement-for-net-ea/

Please sign up to the forums there to follow latest development

Version 0.8.3 of the Heresy Legions lists have been released.
Individual legion lists use units from the main lists with additions where noted.

http://tinyurl.com/heresy083
(main epic 30k Legions document to be used in conjunction with the following legions)

http://www.epicau.com/heresylists/World_Eaters_Legion_0.8.3.pdf
(World Eaters legion)

http://tinyurl.com/salamanderslegion083
(Salamanders legion)

http://tinyurl.com/nightlordslegion083
(Night Lords legion)

http://www.epicau.com/heresylists/Death_Guard_Legion_0.8.3.pdf
(Death Guard legion)

http://tinyurl.com/ironhandslegion083
(Iron Hands legion)

http://tinyurl.com/ravenguardlegion083
(Raven Guard Legion)

http://tinyurl.com/ironwarriorslegion083
(Iron Warriors Legion)

http://www.epicau.com/heresylists/Solar_Auxilia_0.1.3.pdf
(Solar Auxilia)

http://www.epicau.com/heresylists/Mechanicus03.pdf
(Admech!)


http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org
Imperial Guard and Titan Legion armies can be downloaded here, and can be used in play versus or allied with Legion armies until such time as 30k era specific army lists have been created

https://traitor-legion.appspot.com/indexISSTVAN.html
Heresy legion lists are up!

Please make sure to email feedback to fattdex@hotmail.com

Posted by: CAL451 Aug 11 2013, 10:53 AM

Hey mate,

Getting a list together for game 1 from this list. It will be ground pounding defensive Marines Vs AMTL at 4000 points. We will get a Batrep up in here with pics once the game is done.

Cheers
Aaron

Posted by: fattdex Aug 11 2013, 09:01 PM

Thanks Aaron, also if you get a chance, please play the same match without and with Atsknf- i would have thought the list could live without it like the chaos list does, but have had feedback so far that it feels better with, even with large formations.

Posted by: CAL451 Aug 12 2013, 12:05 PM

QUOTE(fattdex @ Aug 11 2013, 09:01 PM) *

Thanks Aaron, also if you get a chance, please play the same match without and with Atsknf- i would have thought the list could live without it like the chaos list does, but have had feedback so far that it feels better with, even with large formations.



I was something that came out when Geoff and I played our first two games with the original list. Against itself it really isn't an issue but against another list it would hurt. The smaller formations break like there is not tomorrow. Will do on the ATSKNF mate. Aiming for two games this week, fingers crossed.

Cheers
Aaron

Posted by: ortron Dec 9 2013, 11:48 PM

QUOTE(CAL451 @ Aug 12 2013, 01:05 PM) *

I was something that came out when Geoff and I played our first two games with the original list. Against itself it really isn't an issue but against another list it would hurt. The smaller formations break like there is not tomorrow. Will do on the ATSKNF mate. Aiming for two games this week, fingers crossed.

Cheers
Aaron



We've now had a few games of the 0.5 lists and I personally think the ATSKNF is needed or at least something similar. It just doesn't feel right to have the marine formations breaking all the time. When the list was played against guard it was even more keenly felt. Maybe not so much in points but in "feel" of the list.

Also, given this is a primarily a marine on marine list, can we still include a few of the "standard" units types that existed at the time of the HH. Eg standard landspeeders and dreadnoughts in addition to the HH era specific ones. I know this adds a few more units but when 90% of the battles will be marine on marine a bit of extra variation won't hurt in my opinion.

Finally the support troops still feel miss matched. They heavy support has better FF, better weapons systems and is the same price as the tactical support squad who has 1 crappy flamer shot and worse FF. IMO the tactical spt squad is harder to use but should be rewarded for making it into FF range. Suggested fixes:
- FF to 3+ or gain an extra attack and retain IC in FF
- 2x flamers as base weapons or change to "flamers 2xAP4+, Ignore Cover"

Together it would look something like
Tactical Support INF 4+ 4+ 4+ Flamers 2x AP4+ Ignore cover
(small Arms) EA+1, Ignore cover

At stats like these then they would be comparable to the hvy spt, otherwise I don't feel they're worth taking. I also don't think its too OTT as its is representing a whole squad of specialist weapon troopers.

Thoughts.

Posted by: fattdex Dec 10 2013, 12:44 PM

Top work cheers. I'll be reviewing all of the notes collected and making a revision on my hols (some time 20th dec-new year) and release a new point version then.

-JB

Posted by: fattdex Dec 10 2013, 12:52 PM

On extra units- i feel ya. document room wise, any more will probably spill onto a new page of unit stats... hell, may as well fill it up ;-)

Forgeworld looks likely to be set to release dozens of troop (and tank) variations into the future. We don't need to stat every single one but I am looking at either putting them in as mission variant models in some cases (like imperator titan), or as legion specific list mutation model replacements, for named chapters so far. That is my current feeling for the special troop variants that are coming out, basically a legion mutation of the list will be the basic legion list, with some listed unit replacements (primarch plus flavour troops), and anything else deemed special that needs to happen so long as it is not something crazy unbalanced.

Posted by: ortron Dec 13 2013, 09:42 PM

Mate I think that would work well and that idea worked well, IMO, with the net epic rules. Basically they had a standard list and each chapter had an ability to modify the options or take unit specific units without requiring mass reproduction of the common to all units and formations. Thus all the chapters could be covered in a single document.

If you'd like some help with work or a review of the list feel free to shoot me a PM with email contacts etc.

Cheers

Posted by: CAL451 Dec 23 2013, 06:15 AM

Dex,

A bump mate, where are we at with changes to the list?

Cheers
Aaron

Posted by: fattdex Dec 23 2013, 09:16 AM

Booking in for some post boxing day alone time.

Posted by: fattdex Dec 30 2013, 12:06 AM

IPB Image

The latest Space Marine Legions 0.6.1 playtesters pack is available to download from the link below
(update from 0.6, please re-download!)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B27Fszc83K8PdDNXbnI5WkVaWlU/edit?usp=sharing

as always, please direct any data to fattdex@hotmail.com

Posted by: Maerlyn the Solitaire Dec 30 2013, 03:53 PM

Doh!! Now my Cancon list is 430pt over, my precious toys... sad.gif

More seriously, thanks for the update.

Posted by: fattdex Dec 30 2013, 05:02 PM

QUOTE(Maerlyn the Solitaire @ Dec 30 2013, 04:53 PM) *

Doh!! Now my Cancon list is 430pt over, my precious toys... sad.gif

More seriously, thanks for the update.


yeah it just means that it will be a fairer fight vs guard in the future. iit may be easier to bump the point limit up to 5k for cancon ;-)


NOTE: Anyone who has grabbed 0.6- I have just updated it as I forgot to add the executioner upgrade onto the predators listing, and I added the thunderhawk transpoorter in by semi popular demand while I was at it.

Please let me know of any other bugs!

Posted by: CAL451 Dec 31 2013, 08:06 AM

Dex,

A couple of typos at a glance mate.

Predator annihilator and Executioner have there stats around the wrong way.

Sicaran should be two shots on the accelerator cannon

Venarator, the Neutron is not twinlinked.

Cheers
Aaron

QUOTE(Maerlyn the Solitaire @ Dec 30 2013, 04:53 PM) *

Doh!! Now my Cancon list is 430pt over, my precious toys... sad.gif

More seriously, thanks for the update.


Yeah,

I am about 200 over now. I will change the level of the game to 4.5k and post on the CANCON thread.

Cheers
Aaron

Posted by: ortron Dec 31 2013, 10:48 AM

Echo the thanks above, cheers for the update:

Few other comments, questions & minor errors:

Tac Spt squads - Good stats now, think this is a good move to balance the cost against the hvy spt squads.

Dread & Land speeders - thanks for the inclusion, should the standard speeders be cheaper than the javelin though?

Sicarans: Good to see these get in, as for stats - direct 40k to epic translation might look like 3x AP4/AT5 as is has 3 times the firepower of a standard AC and is twin linked (hence AP4/AT5). The venarator is just the one neutron as cal mentioned.

Glaive: See the stats but where is the cost and army list entry? is it a 1 for 1 with the Fellblade? could it possibly have ignore cover as well or 3BP? like the Typhon is main armament seems a little underwhelming when compared to other list options. Given its supposed to be good at smashing big critters and super heavies how about, a MW(D3) or MW(D6) attack. Basically working like the TK(D3) does except is multiple MW hits on a WE, not TK hits since it lacks that high pen attack like a volcano cannon or similar?

Aircraft: Nice. The 45cm on the lightnings ACs might cause the epic rule Nazis some grief though due to the precedence on aircraft weapon ranges? maybe drop to 30cm and add some missiles? it does have a stack of hardpoint options. Similarly I think the avenger would also be sweet with some bombs 2 or 3 BP? as it also has a number of hardpoint options.


Overall Dex, very happy, don't take the above as a whinge, just some thoughts or ideas.

Thanks mate

Posted by: fattdex Dec 31 2013, 02:36 PM

Cheers gents i will sneakaroo fix those typos and reupload. The venerator was a copypasta error with the twinlinked, as with the predators- oopsie.
Yep sicaran was meant to be 2x at4/ap5 - 3x makes them too crazy and tey are supposed to remain cheaper than land raiders.
The lightning is a copy of the stats taken from two existing imperial guard lists, wasnt wanting to upset the applecart in changing stats on existing weapon lines (45cm is a bit long though, i thought) but f the police, changed to 30cm.

Disagree on the glaive a bit, its main attack is only S8 in 40k nor long range, but it kills troops in droves and has the deflagralate effect that kills more troops the more troops it kills. As written in the playtesters notes, it is for now intended to replace a fellblade in an iron hands legion army, so for 500 pts you can have a bp6 macro infantry melti battery (that also has 12 at4 shots at the same range). Ill put ignores cover on as well, as i think it is going to be best used on the double in most cases, and that will mitigate the -1 to hit somewhat.

The speeder cost is standard, but the javelin cost could go up if itis deemed the right thing to do (just starting them at 200).

Changed malcadors to 200 as they have legiones astartes now. (Forgot that earlier)

EDIT: And thanks for the prompt feedback (take a blast marker) and have a happy new year!

New file is 0.6.1 please download sorry guise
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B27Fszc83K8PdDNXbnI5WkVaWlU/edit?usp=sharing

(other link changed to new file)

Posted by: ortron Dec 31 2013, 03:56 PM

QUOTE(fattdex @ Dec 31 2013, 03:36 PM) *

Cheers gents i will sneakaroo fix those typos and reupload. The venerator was a copypasta error with the twinlinked, as with the predators- oopsie.
Yep sicaran was meant to be 2x at4/ap5 - 3x makes them too crazy and tey are supposed to remain cheaper than land raiders.
The lightning is a copy of the stats taken from two existing imperial guard lists, wasnt wanting to upset the applecart in changing stats on existing weapon lines (45cm is a bit long though, i thought) but f the police, changed to 30cm.

Disagree on the glaive a bit, its main attack is only S8 in 40k nor long range, but it kills troops in droves and has the deflagralate effect that kills more troops the more troops it kills. As written in the playtesters notes, it is for now intended to replace a fellblade in an iron hands legion army, so for 500 pts you can have a bp6 macro infantry melti battery (that also has 12 at4 shots at the same range). Ill put ignores cover on as well, as i think it is going to be best used on the double in most cases, and that will mitigate the -1 to hit somewhat.

The speeder cost is standard, but the javelin cost could go up if itis deemed the right thing to do (just starting them at 200).

Changed malcadors to 200 as they have legiones astartes now. (Forgot that earlier)

EDIT: And thanks for the prompt feedback (take a blast marker) and have a happy new year!

New file is 0.6.1 please download sorry guise
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B27Fszc83K8PdDNXbnI5WkVaWlU/edit?usp=sharing

(other link changed to new file)



Happy New Year to you to mate.

Ack the reasoning for all tank stats, but can't the Glaive be taken by all legions though?

And I think the Lightning stats you're looking at are the old style lightning with long barreled AC on the center line and las cannons on the wing tips, not the HH era Primaris pattern?

thanks for update.

Posted by: fattdex Dec 31 2013, 05:48 PM

Lighting is essentially the same thing (dont want to up gun it too far, it is essentially just an interceptor role)

For now, glaive and infernus are two units earmarked for being legion-specific for the individual army lists. It may change later on, once they are fleshed out, hence not listed officially, but can be taken in iron hands and sallies respectively.

Posted by: Maerlyn the Solitaire Jan 5 2014, 08:37 PM

A couple of questions/comments, sorry if these are silly questions.

Specifically which units are affected by Legiones Astartes? Initially I was assuming that nothing in the Allies and Lords of War section would be eligible however the Fellblade can get Praetor upgrade so would it be eligible?

Regarding Thudd Gun/Rapier battery pricing, currently it's a 33% discount compared to purchasing 50pt each as upgrade. What about 175pt for 4? This would be approximately 12% discount when purchased as battery.




Posted by: CAL451 Jan 5 2014, 10:22 PM

Maerlyn the Solitaire,

The only allies are the Imperial Navy and Titan formations, so the Fellblade and the other super heavies in there are all Legion Astartes.

Dex,

May be an idea to divide the section or change the header to reflect the Astartes nature of the superheavies in that area.

Cheers
Aaron

Posted by: fattdex Jan 6 2014, 07:29 PM

Every unit with legion in front of it!

Posted by: ortron Jan 7 2014, 09:21 AM

Dex,

Couple more typos or possible errors in point form:

Unit: Dreadnought
Twin-linking convensions not applied (+1 to hit) in the dreadnought ML stats, suggest you revert to standard ML or boost stats.

Unit: Sicaran Battle tank
Accelerator cannon - should this not be 2x AP4/AT5 rather than how it is currently (2x AT4/AP5).

Unit: Avenger
TL lascannons - think this should be AT4+/AA5+ ??

Unit: Lightning
TL Lascannons - as above
TL AC stats - should this not be Ap4/AT5/AA5 - as per a hydra but with -15cm range?



Posted by: fattdex Jan 7 2014, 11:45 AM

Hi ortron, thanks for the proofing.

Most stats are taken from (such as Avenger and lightning twin lascannons based from the existing epic stats for a lightnings wingtip lascannons- ) or based upon existing units, but some of ye olden units that they come from sometimes just had 'missile launcher' in the weapon profile name (such as the regular epic space marine dreadnought- the 40k model has a twin linked missile launcher, they just call it a missile launcher on the epic profile.) instead of complete weapon name. I've just been updating the proper weapon names as they go along. As a happy accident, it means that the twin linked missile launcher and the cyclone launcher have the same stat, and the twin linked cyclone launcher has the +1 boosted stat, so that's nice.
Don't sweat the small stuff on some of those, I'm not reinventing the wheel, just giving it some tyre polish in most cases.

I'm not trying to invent a load of new weapon stats based on strict formulas for the most part, more using appropriate tried and true weapon lines and in some instances naming them properly. some things don't work as a direct translation like the heavy and support stands, instead of giving them 5x shots per stand it is better to give them 2x more effective shots for example.

the accellerator autocannon I made a convention typo- so instead of 2x AT4+/AP5+ it should be 2x AP5+/AT4+ ;-) I also forgot to add a backslash in the storm bird kheres AC stats. Have made a sneaky typo edit to the pdf, redownload it if you like!

Posted by: ortron Jan 7 2014, 01:27 PM

QUOTE(fattdex @ Jan 7 2014, 12:45 PM) *

Hi ortron, thanks for the proofing.

Most stats are taken from (such as Avenger and lightning twin lascannons based from the existing epic stats for a lightnings wingtip lascannons- ) or based upon existing units, but some of ye olden units that they come from sometimes just had 'missile launcher' in the weapon profile name (such as the regular epic space marine dreadnought- the 40k model has a twin linked missile launcher, they just call it a missile launcher on the epic profile.) instead of complete weapon name. I've just been updating the proper weapon names as they go along. As a happy accident, it means that the twin linked missile launcher and the cyclone launcher have the same stat, and the twin linked cyclone launcher has the +1 boosted stat, so that's nice.
Don't sweat the small stuff on some of those, I'm not reinventing the wheel, just giving it some tyre polish in most cases.

I'm not trying to invent a load of new weapon stats based on strict formulas for the most part, more using appropriate tried and true weapon lines and in some instances naming them properly. some things don't work as a direct translation like the heavy and support stands, instead of giving them 5x shots per stand it is better to give them 2x more effective shots for example.

the accellerator autocannon I made a convention typo- so instead of 2x AT4+/AP5+ it should be 2x AP5+/AT4+ ;-) I also forgot to add a backslash in the storm bird kheres AC stats. Have made a sneaky typo edit to the pdf, redownload it if you like!



Yeah ok, I was just trying to make them fit within the established stats for a bunch of existing epic weapons/units however looking back at the lightning and lightning strike fighters in the 2012 compendium they seem to have changed the weapons to "wing tip lascannons" to tone down the effectiveness - probably for balance.

But to explain where i was coming from, one of the original design concepts behind this version of epic was that the weapons stats would be consistent across platforms to minimise the confusion that was happening in SM/TL and then NetEpic. For Eg Twin-Linked Lascannons are (almost?) always 45cm AT4+, and on Aircraft, such as on the marauder bomber, they are 45cm AT4/AA4+ FF but they would rarely be used in an AA role due to the fact is a bomber. AA4+ on aircraft capable of intercept is considered uncool by the NetEA rules gurus, so I can see a reason to align these with the lightnings stats and not the marauders.

The standard Auto Cannon is obviously 45cm AP5+/AT6+ and twin linked its AP4+/AT5+, hence comment on your lightning's stats.

Given the accelerator cannon was basically (in 40k stats) 3x more effective than an autocannon and the tank has two in a twin linked config, I originally thought 3x AP4+/AT5+ but i note your reasoning to tone it back to only 2 shots. Just though you might have mixed up the AP and AT values but if you want it the other way around its you list.

As for the dreadnoughts in normal 40k it is just a single ML but FW makes theirs a TL missile launcher in the 30k HH books as a lot of people never use the ML in 40k on dreads, as it is considered underpowered. Anyway I think the stats of AP5+/AT6+ is fine and balanced.

WRT the Cyclone, its probably 45cm AP4+/AT5+ in a direct 40K to epic translation but I've seen it equivalent to a standard ML as well, so that one you probably have the flexibility to go whichever way you want.

As above, not trying to change your list, just thought you might have made some typos.

Posted by: fattdex Jan 7 2014, 01:42 PM

Cool thanks man. The thought behind the accelerator is that it is a bit better as 2x AP5/AT5, in that the 40k weapon also has (from memory) rending etc and six shots, making it more effective as an anti tank weapon than your regular autocannon and more directed as a weapon for pinging armour. The tank is also full of heavy bolters too- they actually have a LOT of ap shots combined, it may end up being valid to lose the side heavy bolters if they prove a bit too hot, and just have the autocannon and hull heavy bolter, as 4 tanks doing 20x ap5 shots at 30cm sounds like too many dice.

Posted by: ortron Jan 7 2014, 02:22 PM

QUOTE(fattdex @ Jan 7 2014, 02:42 PM) *

The tank is also full of heavy bolters too- they actually have a LOT of ap shots combined, it may end up being valid to lose the side heavy bolters if they prove a bit too hot, and just have the autocannon and hull heavy bolter, as 4 tanks doing 20x ap5 shots at 30cm sounds like too many dice.



Yeah that does Sound like a lot of dice... but then it is what it is. Personally I'd perfer to see things costed up or down rather than nerfed stat wise but I guess testing will tell.

In some ways it might be like the IG baneblade and storm hammers. Both have a stack of shots at 30cm but the in game reality was that they were often at negatives to hit for range, doubling etc and AP firepower is often less useful than AT. Still, I wouldn't like to be caught in the open when a squadron of these opened up, especially if I was dumb enough to do it where they could sustain fire.

I think your right on the accelerator cannon in that it is better at chewing up armour than a standard AC. And I think a 2x AP4 or AP5 is probably on the money for its AP capabilities. The extra shots it puts out just cause overkill on the squad its engaging, it would need multiple turrets or independent weapons to claim a higher number of shots.

As a further thought, what about this: Accelerator Cannon 45cm AP3+/AT4+.
So it tones down the bulk number of shots and is therefore less scary on sustained fire or double actions. It is however very good at killing a single squad of infantry and is capable against armour but can't kill multiple tanks/squads in a single lucky burst. I like this as it represents the vehicle chewing up a single target through weight of fire rather than spraying the area with wild bursts

Posted by: fattdex Jan 7 2014, 03:19 PM

QUOTE(ortron @ Jan 7 2014, 03:22 PM) *



Yeah that does Sound like a lot of dice... but then it is what it is. Personally I'd perfer to see things costed up or down rather than nerfed stat wise but I guess testing will tell.

In some ways it might be like the IG baneblade and storm hammers. Both have a stack of shots at 30cm but the in game reality was that they were often at negatives to hit for range, doubling etc and AP firepower is often less useful than AT. Still, I wouldn't like to be caught in the open when a squadron of these opened up, especially if I was dumb enough to do it where they could sustain fire.

I think your right on the accelerator cannon in that it is better at chewing up armour than a standard AC. And I think a 2x AP4 or AP5 is probably on the money for its AP capabilities. The extra shots it puts out just cause overkill on the squad its engaging, it would need multiple turrets or independent weapons to claim a higher number of shots.

As a further thought, what about this: Accelerator Cannon 45cm AP3+/AT4+.
So it tones down the bulk number of shots and is therefore less scary on sustained fire or double actions. It is however very good at killing a single squad of infantry and is capable against armour but can't kill multiple tanks/squads in a single lucky burst. I like this as it represents the vehicle chewing up a single target through weight of fire rather than spraying the area with wild bursts


Yep, it may end up that way.
I haven't built any proxies yet as the model idea I had looked daft when i bunged the bits together, but I will have to get some games in with them later on to try both.


Posted by: Mic Fair Jan 9 2014, 12:58 PM

Hey Dex

I am loving the heresy list and am looking forward to my first crack at it with The Big Bash.

I love the idea of the Primarchs being able to go one on one with each other. The problem as I see with primarch on primarch duels is that their hits from an engagement would generally be farmed out to the fodder around them. Should they have sniper to enable them to directly target each other?

Cheers

Mic

Posted by: fattdex Jan 9 2014, 04:12 PM

Hm, that could be abused, I could look into a 'challenge' addition to the demigod rules.

Posted by: fattdex Jan 9 2014, 04:35 PM

How about this, use it as a trial addition to the demigod rule:

QUOTE
if two enemy demigods should meet on the battlefield, a glorious challenge will be met. When two formations involved in an engagement both contain demigod units, the attacking player must move their demigod unit into base to base contact with the enenemy demigod unit, or the closest unit to the demigod unit that it can reach, ignoring enemy zones of control. The target players demigod unit must countercharge to engage the opposing players demigod unit or closest unit to the demigod that it an reach, ignoring intervening stands zones of control.
If two demigod units reach base to base contact, all of their attacks must be directed at each other. Attacks from duelling demigod units in base to base contact are resolved against each other first, out of the normal sequence of attacks, before any 'strikes first' attacks. If a demigod unit fails to reach base to base contact with a model, its firefight attacks must be directed at the opposing demigod unit.

Posted by: Mic Fair Jan 9 2014, 04:37 PM

Sounds good, a Demi god rule would be better to allow challenges between demigods while limiting further exploitation. I'll leave it in your more than capable hands.

Mic

Posted by: fattdex Jan 28 2014, 11:50 AM

I'm having a lunch break fiddle (oh er)

How do you feel about these new profiles for the aircraft? Recosted at 225 for lightnings and 275 for Avengers (mainly to ease massive unit spamming at 3K, also for upgraded profile)

Based on Cancon convo, using the usual epic list convention for twin lascannons, and trying to make them more attractive to take in a list full of juicy options (as well as making the primaris lightning more interesting, now it is a nice little anti tank strike unit, which is then a good interceptor when the missile rack is empty, and the A-10 has been given a more focused ground attack role away from the lightning)

Imperial Navy Avenger Strike Fighter AC Fighter Bomber 5+ - -
Avenger Cannon 30 cm 2x AP3+/AT5+, FxF
Twin Lascannons 45 cm AT4+/AA4+, FxF
Defence Heavy Stubber 30 cm AA6+, Rear Arc
Bomb Rack 15cm 2BP, FxF

Imperial Navy Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter AC Fighter 6+ - -
Twin Lascannons 45 cm AT4+/AA4+, FxF
Twin Autocannons 30 cm AP5+/AT6+/AA5+, FxF
Kraken Heavy Missiles 30 cm AT4+, One Shot, FxF

Posted by: fattdex Jan 28 2014, 08:37 PM

I put breacher siege marines+caestus assault
ram into the list as a support formation, would podt here but doing it on phone is too slutty.

Have started a batreps thread on tac comms, if you want to record your games.

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?uid=1499&f=84&t=26809&start=0

Posted by: ortron Jan 28 2014, 09:44 PM

QUOTE(fattdex @ Jan 28 2014, 12:50 PM) *

I'm having a lunch break fiddle (oh er)

How do you feel about these new profiles for the aircraft? Recosted at 225 for lightnings and 275 for Avengers (mainly to ease massive unit spamming at 3K, also for upgraded profile)

Based on Cancon convo, using the usual epic list convention for twin lascannons, and trying to make them more attractive to take in a list full of juicy options (as well as making the primaris lightning more interesting, now it is a nice little anti tank strike unit, which is then a good interceptor when the missile rack is empty, and the A-10 has been given a more focused ground attack role away from the lightning)

Imperial Navy Avenger Strike Fighter AC Fighter Bomber 5+ - -
Avenger Cannon 30 cm 2x AP3+/AT5+, FxF
Twin Lascannons 45 cm AT4+/AA4+, FxF
Defence Heavy Stubber 30 cm AA6+, Rear Arc
Bomb Rack 15cm 2BP, FxF

Imperial Navy Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter AC Fighter 6+ - -
Twin Lascannons 45 cm AT4+/AA4+, FxF
Twin Autocannons 30 cm AP5+/AT6+/AA5+, FxF
Kraken Heavy Missiles 30 cm AT4+, One Shot, FxF


Like the fact you've upped the power, again the AA4+ of a fighter bomber will draw the crabs, as will the range but its your list mate. 30cm AT4+/AA5+ should be the min with your stats being the max.

If you dropped the Twin LC down to that above you could up the Twin AC to 30cm, AP4/AT5/AA5 to balance.

Avenger looks the goods, but if you want it to be a ground attack AC consider making it a bomber?

Really looking forward to the seige marines and rams. I think we'll get a couple more games in the coming weeks. Cancon seems to have got the epic interest peaking.

Posted by: fattdex Jan 28 2014, 11:34 PM

The stat for twin lascannons on aircraft being 45cm at4/aa4 after i went and had a search is repeated across quite a few aircraft through the 2013 tournament lists compendium, so I am pretty happy to leave it with that by convention, and haters can hate if haters gonna hate.

Avengers are still a small enough frame to class as fighter bomber and still be able to be used on anti air duty, i reckon they will wash out o.k as fighter bomber

Posted by: fattdex May 15 2014, 12:52 PM

Overdue update: Having received my set of trilogy books, I'm going to hammer away a lot of work on this on the weekeend, I'll send that out to the 'internal review team' then I'll get a new draft release for you all which will contain a more or less finalized generic legion list, and the first four other legion lists (salamanders, deathguard, iron warriors, world eaters).

Trickiest part right now is creating rules that work neatly for castellum strongholds, trying out a speed zero war engine transport type of deal.

Cheers

Posted by: fattdex Jun 16 2014, 01:32 PM

Ladies, Gents and everyone inbetween,

http://www.filedropper.com/heresylegionplaytestpack081

(Look for the big grey 'Download This File' button!!)

New release of the Heresy Legions playtesters pack has been released.

Changelog as follows (we have been doing a lot of beavering away in the background)

QUOTE
Some new units have been added in 0.8.1 that are not intended to be used in a core legion army list, but should be will be used with a specific named legion (namely two units, Predator Infernus: for this playtest document may be taken in place of Predator Destructors in a Salamanders Legion army; Glaive: may be taken as a squadron of three in place of a Fellblade squadron in an Iron Hands list). Feel free to try this for yourselves.
The first supplement release will contain named legion rules for all of the legions covered in the Isstvan trilogy of books published by Forge World.
Players will be able to choose to build their own Legion army using the core Legion army list, or construct their armies using a named Legion list, which will have a different detachment structure and some special units.
General:
Added Iron Hands and World Eaters Legions Army lists and units
Demigod definition updated
Changed artillery support restrictions
Added Breacher Siege Detachment
Changed Storm Eagle upgrade to Assault Claw upgrade
Storm Eagles changes to aircraft
Changed Sicaran battle tank squadron to 0-6 units
Disrupt added to Neutron Laser
Glaive added to Super Heavy Tank detachment (note: the decision to leave it available as a single tank only in the basic Legion list is deliberate, as other detachment options will be available to specific legion lists.)
Formation character upgrade exceptions added
Changed Heavy Support upgrade
Changed Recon Marines options
Changed Thunderhawk Transporter options
Replaced Avenger with Fire Raptor Gunship
Executioner upgrade changed to Predator Support
Units:
Added Kharybdis Assault Claw
Added Caestus Assault Ram
Added Breacher Siege Marines
Re-Armed Storm Eagle Gunships
Whirlwind Hyperios FF fixed
Changed Sky Hunter jetbikes to LV, slight price drop
Added new weapon profiles to Avenger and Lightning; recosted
Changed Sicaran Battle Tank and Sicaran Venator
Added Fire Raptor Gunships
Added Whirlwind Scorpius
Up-Armoured Legion Medusa
Added Legion Falchion
Reduced range of Lightning Strike Fighter
Changed Contemptor TL Lascannon to TL
Autocannon

Posted by: CAL451 Jun 16 2014, 02:15 PM

Nice mate,

I will get onto a game or two once done with HB this week mate. Geoff has been out of action on course and it's been a slow gaming period. What do you want us to test in the list as a matter or priority?

Cheers
Aaron

Posted by: fattdex Jun 16 2014, 03:00 PM

storm eagle, assault claws, assault rams and breachers- i don't think they are exploitable and you can do a lot of the same with assault marines or terminators in thunderhawks, but they need a good run.

Many things are just fixed up.

Using the new Fire Raptor which has replaced the Avenger (avenger will be used in the mechanicus list later), trying the rebalanced lightnings.

A good iron hands force using the falchion and some predator units with the whirlwind

Running the dreadnought options through- they should be a little more balanced than the last time.

More khornate run throughs, but they seemed to be getting better from your feedback.

Trying out the mechanicus units for iron hands- i gave them a few games, they did well at being fodder and sitting on objectives, which is pretty much what it says on the lid.

Some primarch on primarch action! if ferrus now takes heavy transport, he has a tech priest rule, he has a chance to do some repairs.

Posted by: CAL451 Jun 16 2014, 04:15 PM

Mate,

Just drew up an air assault list to get into the Fire Raptor as the first test point. I will kick a 4k game versus someone testing another component of the list. I will email it through to you later on to see what you think. I am keen to get a Primarch in the game, I am yet to test the Red Butchers so I will get Angron on the table Versus Ferrus against Geoff in the near future.

Cheers
Aaron

Posted by: sethanon Jun 16 2014, 07:23 PM

I think I will have to roll out a list then..

Posted by: fattdex Jun 16 2014, 07:42 PM

IPB Image

Posted by: dubhgilla1 Aug 2 2014, 06:11 PM

The link is no longer working. Just sends you to http://www.filedropper.com

Posted by: fattdex Aug 2 2014, 06:19 PM

Thanks mate, link changed to google drive document

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B27Fszc83K8PZzh6V1VyY2VDQ0E/edit?usp=sharing

Posted by: sethanon Aug 15 2014, 08:35 PM

Dex, you get my email with the Primarch stats? It's been real quiet on the 30k front..

Posted by: fattdex Aug 18 2014, 01:03 PM

I would have, I have collected fedback from a few groups, when I get some time to dedicate to it I will review it all and put something out for review. I'm pretty busy up until early November, though.

Posted by: sethanon Sep 2 2014, 07:31 PM

Sweet, just keen to get to the best legion is all..

Posted by: fattdex Sep 3 2014, 02:22 PM

A few people have asked me about when the different legion lists will be ready, etc- a lot fo the legions are not that divergent from the core list, if you build your army around the core list, with your order of battle based on the doctrines presented in the FW books, you will be right as rain with some minor tweaks by the end it is all finished. IE; raven guard will want to be air attack heavy, sons of horus will want to be drop pod heavy, etc.

Posted by: sethanon Sep 3 2014, 06:29 PM

I tend to agree, hence why I forwarded the Primarch list. For me the base list offers the variety for what i am after except for the Primarch and elite units. Fulgrim as my figurehead and two specialist units in the form of palatine blades or the Phoenician guard. However, the army centred on planet fall and fast armour, with the base Primarch and terminator squads works for now.

Posted by: fattdex Sep 3 2014, 09:46 PM

Many armies special units are just that, divergent terminators or power armour units. Many armies will get their specials with rules, but it may be decided that some units are just too close to others to give them unit entries. If this ends up being the case, there is no harm in modeling the honour guard around a character or primarch as that type of unit, etc.

Having said that, most stuff will likely be in ;-) including some dreadnought variants.

Posted by: dubhgilla1 Oct 14 2014, 08:33 AM

This thread should be stickied

Posted by: CAL451 Oct 14 2014, 08:41 AM

QUOTE(sethanon @ Sep 3 2014, 07:29 PM) *

I tend to agree, hence why I forwarded the Primarch list. For me the base list offers the variety for what i am after except for the Primarch and elite units. Fulgrim as my figurehead and two specialist units in the form of palatine blades or the Phoenician guard. However, the army centred on planet fall and fast armour, with the base Primarch and terminator squads works for now.



Pity now he has changes his mind and is going with Night Lords. Hahahahahaha. I saw an image on stalk book of a helmeted Conrad Curz. Looked pretty good. Seems the Warhammer Fest Weekend had plenty of Calth related material and Knights.

Cheers
Asron

Posted by: fattdex Oct 14 2014, 02:26 PM

Next book is knights, titans and moon guard mostly it seems (bringing back the stormhammer), with a couple of legion additions, a super dreadnought? book 5 being calth.

All sounds good to me.

Posted by: sethanon Oct 14 2014, 05:06 PM

-palatine blades - phoenician guard +terror squads +night raptors -fulgrim +curze.

either way, moar vespian gas is required..

Posted by: sethanon Nov 1 2014, 10:22 PM

Storm Eagles Vengeance Launcher is 1BP in current electronic copy. It came up tonight in our playtesting as it was 1 BP, then changed to 2 BP, now 1 BP again.

when are you looking to have a major update out as we have a lot of things we need to test but no confirmation on what we has changed and where the focus needs to be



Posted by: fattdex Nov 3 2014, 10:07 AM

QUOTE(sethanon @ Nov 1 2014, 11:22 PM) *
Storm Eagles Vengeance Launcher is 1BP in current electronic copy. It came up tonight in our playtesting as it was 1 BP, then changed to 2 BP, now 1 BP again.

when are you looking to have a major update out as we have a lot of things we need to test but no confirmation on what we has changed and where the focus needs to be




Hi Mate, review of this list starting this weekend. Taking a small hobby break due to exhaustion after running demo games at PAX AUS and generally repairing my broken marriage due to ignoring my wife to get hobby done before friday..

Posted by: DION EVERETT Jan 20 2015, 01:07 AM

.

Posted by: JimXII Jan 20 2015, 06:05 AM

Oh Dion! You got me excited! I thought jb had posted...

We can only live in hope...

Posted by: mard Jan 20 2015, 07:08 AM

Goddamnit Jimmy! you did the same thing to me!

Posted by: fattdex Jan 20 2015, 09:13 AM

QUOTE(DION EVERETT @ Jan 20 2015, 02:07 AM) *
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/fattdex/legion1_zpscf6ba18e.jpg


Strong post.

Posted by: Lextheimpaler Jan 20 2015, 11:19 AM

Damnit, I too got excited!

Posted by: Nox Jan 23 2015, 04:03 PM

Any chance of getting titans with different load outs for the different legions?
Like a reaver with one or two CCW for the World Eaters.

Posted by: fattdex Jan 29 2015, 10:45 AM

Not really at this stage, no. I think that when it comes time to make a titan legion list though, it will have pre configured patterns like a close combat warlord, long range warlord, and as games go bigger i'd encourage players to take 2 allied armies in a force, 4000 pts of world eaters and 2000 points of titan legions for example instead of using titan allies from the list. Because, heresy.

Posted by: fattdex Jan 30 2015, 05:20 PM

It's here! Sort of. Consider this a soft release until it has been crowd source spell checked. If your legion is not listed, it is currently still being worked on. Feel free to use the generic or other legion list or a similar list in the mean time. If you ask me when your legion list is going to be ready, I'll probably cut you.

http://tinyurl.com/heresy083
(main epic 30k Legions document to be used in conjunction with the following legions)

http://tinyurl.com/worldeaterslegion083
(world eaters legion)

http://tinyurl.com/salamanderslegion083
(salamanders legion)

http://tinyurl.com/nightlordslegion083
(night lords legion)

http://tinyurl.com/deathguard083
(death guard legion)

http://tinyurl.com/ironhandslegion083
(iron hands legion)

http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org
Imperial Guard ant Titan Legion armies can be downloaded here
http://traitor-legion.appspot.com
(heresy legion lists will go up next week+d6 in their own section)

Posted by: sethanon Feb 1 2015, 10:46 AM

Hey mate, do you want commentary here or e-mailed directly?

Posted by: fattdex Feb 2 2015, 10:44 AM

fattdex@hotmail.com is best so I can collate it easily thanks

Posted by: fattdex Feb 3 2015, 09:10 AM

OK, those lists have had slight amendments and corrections added, mostly clarifying transports issues, and konrad curze primarch formation has been edited. Calling this proper 0.8.3 release now, and I will add new legions when they are available.

Posted by: fattdex Feb 10 2015, 04:56 PM

Two more legions for comment, before I post to the top post!

I still require some feedback on these two, and I may well have some editing errors, so please let me know.

http://tinyurl.com/ravenguardlegion083
(Raven Guard Legion)

http://tinyurl.com/ironwarriorslegion083
(Iron Warriors Legion)

Posted by: mard Feb 11 2015, 07:11 PM

We are live gents
https://traitor-legion.appspot.com/indexISSTVAN.html

Now go brake it and tell me what i stuffed up

Posted by: fattdex Feb 12 2015, 11:49 AM

I caught a small error i had made in the main list- fire raptor gunships had been given the wrong armament. Please re-download the main list which is now corrected.

Posted by: fattdex Feb 17 2015, 04:46 PM

http://tinyurl.com/SolarAuxilia

First draft of the Solar Auxilia is up!

I will take some comments and corrections before putting it up on the first post.

IPB Image

Posted by: fattdex Feb 18 2015, 11:58 AM

I made some changes to that last document

http://tinyurl.com/SolarAuxilia0-1-2
(Solar Auxilia)

Top post has been updated!

Posted by: fattdex Feb 19 2015, 09:09 AM

Some typos in death guard and salamanders have been fixed if you want to grab them again.

Posted by: fattdex Feb 26 2015, 10:00 AM

The current Solar Auxilia list can be downloaded here: http://www.epicau.com/heresylists/Solar_Auxilia_0.1.3.pdf

QUOTE
Change log 0.1.3
(3.0) Added Malcador and Malcador Infernus tanks (2.1, 2.3) Added Infantry Support Tank upgrades
(2.2) Added Malcador Tank Squadron (3.0) Leman Russ Vanquisher fixed FF value
(2.2) Clarified Leman Russ Assault squadron (of any type)
(2.3) Clarified Transport upgrade (of any type)
(3.0) Fixed Leman Russ Exterminator autocannon range (45cm)

Posted by: Frosthammer Apr 11 2015, 10:33 PM

any chance of 30K Admech?

Posted by: mard Apr 12 2015, 10:04 AM

It's in the works currently i believe, as well as 30k knights and the other legions.
Pretty much this will follow the release schedule of the Forgeworlds HH books

Posted by: Frosthammer Apr 14 2015, 01:11 AM

QUOTE(mard @ Apr 12 2015, 11:04 AM) *

It's in the works currently i believe, as well as 30k nights and the other legions.
Pretty much this will follow the release schedule of the Forgeworlds HH books


thanks - local player was asking about 30K admech to compliment his 40K scale collection smile.gif

Posted by: fattdex Jul 3 2015, 11:37 AM

Guys, I just realised that the admech has not been posted here

http://www.epicau.com/heresylists/Mechanicus03.pdf

This is the first draft that needs playtesting and discussion, so please leave your comments!

Posted by: D_Arquebus Sep 11 2015, 03:43 PM

Do these lists work well (balance) vs existing Xenos of all stripes? smile.gif

Interested in longer term ideas for Crusade era stuff vs. just the Marine-on-Marine action (mostly) in the Heresy smile.gif

Cheers smile.gif

Posted by: mard Sep 11 2015, 05:52 PM

Not sure if we've played vs Xenos yet

If you want more up to date news, as well as the newest releases for Heresy epic games. You should join the epic au forums

Posted by: fattdex Sep 22 2015, 07:26 PM

Have played vs IG which seems a fair fight so far, but I'm not aware of any xenos batreps.

Posted by: dubhgilla1 Sep 30 2015, 12:11 PM

World Eaters and Death Guard legions links are down on the front page.

Thanks for all the hard work the army lists and Armyforge builder is great.

Posted by: fattdex Oct 1 2015, 05:27 PM

Version 0.8.6 is now out at the new home of heresy, EpicAU
http://epicau.com/wp/
http://epicau.com/wp/latest-horus-heresy-supplement-for-net-ea/

Please sign up to the forums there to follow latest development (i'm no longer the primary caretaker and may forget to update this thread)

Posted by: fattdex Oct 13 2015, 01:45 PM

Announcing the creation of the two new lists:

http://epicau.com/mw/index.php/Daemonic_Hordes
http://epicau.com/mw/index.php/Daemonic_Hordes_Reference_List

http://epicau.com/mw/index.php/Imperial_Militia
http://epicau.com/mw/index.php/Imperial_Militia_Reference_List

The Imperial Militia is customisable to represent a vast number of rabble militia, planetary guard, feral auxiliary forces or traitor cults, and the Daemonic Hordes list can be used as allies to traitor legions or militia, or as a force by itself.

Please leave any list feedback in the relevant threads on EpicAU

http://www.epicau.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=191

http://www.epicau.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=192

Posted by: fattdex Oct 25 2015, 09:16 PM

Heresy titan legions have been updated with experimental emperor class rules (same loadouts, split fire rue)- please have a go and see what you think
http://epicau.com/mw/index.php/Legio_Titanicus
http://epicau.com/mw/index.php/Legio_Titanicus_Reference_List

Posted by: fattdex Dec 15 2015, 10:18 AM

http://epicau.com/mw/index.php/Epic_Battles_In_The_Age_Of_Darkness

We have started to enter missions based on legendary battles from the forgeworld horus heresy series of books. The missions also describe how to play with armies other than the 'historical belligerents' too, so y'all others can play them too.

Posted by: Oveja_Negras Jan 17 2016, 08:50 PM

Thoughts I would put up a few pics of a 4000pt Heresy game Alex and I had on friday.

Enjoy everyone!!

The battlefield!
http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Oveja_Negras/media/EPIC/453745C7-CEFE-4C1B-A5AA-ECB34258C7E0.jpg.html

Fellblade with an excellent fire lane covering the MSR.
http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Oveja_Negras/media/EPIC/AB19DB01-20EC-4235-8FA5-9A31A3ED8902.jpg.html

Another Fellblade on the road, Legion Astartes, and law abiding Land Raiders (they drive on the right in the year 30,000)
http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Oveja_Negras/media/EPIC/10558970-9355-4D32-BF40-D2F96B140910.jpg.html

Legion Marines and a 1100pt Terminator formation cover the blitz!
http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Oveja_Negras/media/EPIC/DF7866E8-A7C6-4AFB-97E5-9B492A1ECD2D.jpg.html

Death Guard Fellblades(painted red) cover the main intersection. Magnus the Red loses combat and the big monkey man quite literally the remaining model in the formation climbs a building!!! Images of him swatting away thunderbolts and other aeroplanes is an image that comes to mind....
http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Oveja_Negras/media/EPIC/6A4F4DC9-7329-480A-BEEA-4B0282F5F1A4.jpg.html

Hope you like.

Cheers

Brent

Posted by: fattdex Jan 18 2016, 10:17 PM

Nice!

Posted by: Deb Apr 20 2016, 11:35 PM

Is there an Emperor's Children Heresy list out yet?

I know the Forgeworld Heresy Istvan III and Istvan V books are out, and they have stats for the Emperor's Children, their special and Unique units and Fulgrim.

I would guess each Legion has its special rules like Raven Guard do not use a lot of Heavy units, tend to use Jetbikes, Jump troops, land speeders, fast rhinos, and other fast units. Night lords cause fear, tend to use jump troops and fast assault units with drop pods and lightning strike.

I believe Emperor's Children have precision training, and nearby units work better cohesively to support each other. They train at everything until they get it better than the other legions because they earned the right to wear the Aquilla. They seek perfection, which is why they fell and turned to Slaanesh so easily. Better close combat, better at shooting, but probably only if they have another unit supporting them. I am not sure what rules you are planning to use, or if there is a list out already, as I could not find it.

I would like to make a suggestion. If another Emperor's Children legion unit is supporting a fire fight or close combat action, then the EC unit get an additional +1 to their FF or CC roll (additional to the crossfire bonus). To account for the precision practicing and drilling the units get supporting each other while one unit assaults, the other provides cover fire. I know all legions do this, but EC are supposed to practice their drills until they can do it in their sleep, and do not need to talk top each other, they just know their role instinctively.

Those units that have fallen too low, those equipped with Noise weaponry, should not get this rule as they have forgotten a lot of their training and only care about the stimulation and thrill of battle. Also Discordia/Noise Marine units should be an elites choice.

Anyway that is my opinion, and you are the one who is creating the 30K legion lists. My 2 favourite legions are Emperor's Children and Night Lords.

Posted by: sethanon May 15 2016, 07:10 PM

The EC use the standard core list with the amended elements available on the traitor legion wiki page.

First strike has been given to their elite units to represent their martial prowess.

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