PF or PW Options

[BloodlusT]

hi i have been reading most or the marine armys in the fourms and noticed that most people take PFs instead of PWs for comps..what difference does it make..S8 strike last vs no amour saves and strikes 1st on charge.im wanting to start doing comps to but need help with this question first

[SON OF DORN]

power fists just compliment the marine brutish approach very well.A sqaud will usually have the numbers and gear to withstand an assault and then the vet serg (or other marine in the case of some chapters) can deliver a killing blow to the combat. The thing i find with the fist is that its a reliable couple of kills, where as there is ni reliablitiy with a power weapon even if you do strike before others.

I see the power weapon as a badge of office and a weapon of skill which is better in the hands of a char.If you don't want to use a PF then the next best option is a pair of lightning claws but you'll pay for those.with these you can count on a reliable couple of kills a turn too.
Mind you this is my opinion for marines only.eldar and guard are totally different.

This post has been edited by SON OF DORN: Nov 18 2007, 11:59 AM

[JinOZ]

PF are almost always the better option IMO...

The only time to choose PW over PF is if your SGT or IC has a higher than average Initiative.

[a Fluoro Blue Pear360]

You must always, always take a PF in a Marine squad if you have the points. ALWAYS!!!!!
Three reasons:
- Wraithlords, TMC and the suchlike will make a mess of a squad but with a PF you can at least fight back or even kill them
- Wounding on 2's against most things is great for destroying T5 or T6 models.
- Instant kill!!!! Come up against a nasty chaos lord? Fist him in the face and watch him melt!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (I enjoy this way too much)

[Kargan DaemonClaw]

A veteran sergeant typicall has 4 attacks on the charge, hitting MEQ (marines) on a 4 and wounding on a 4. On average one marine is killed.

A veteran sergeant with powerfist hits on a 4 and kills on a 2 so very likely to kill 2 marines.

A squad of 9 marines would have 18 attacks on the charge, doing about 1-2 kills on a marine unit so losing one to the veteran sergeant doesn't cut down the combat power of the squad significantly.

Powerfists are also capable of autokilling an enemy character of toughness 4 or les in one wounding hit.

Powerfists also give you some capability against a vehicle.

[Speed Adict]

PW or PF? The age old question...

The both of their uses and purpose... You just need to figure what you want that squad and individual to be "doing"... The the decision should become clear

[Kingnova3000]

Power weapons on ICs

Power fists on sergeants or Asp champs (especially plaguemarine asp champs).

Although with the rumour of 5th ed for next year I wouldn't be suprised if the hidden powerfist in squads gets nerfed.

[the chad]

Power fists on sergeants or Asp champs (especially plaguemarine asp champs).

HAHAHAH, dont worry mate, i get it

[Guard_Treadhead]

This question is too general to be useful. Give us a general situation, a good example of this is the Blood Angels veteran assault squads, i like to give this unit 3 power weapons and watch them splatter anything they hit with the sheer number of attacks, while keeping points costs down.

On vet sarge's i prefer the power fist, for its extra strenght and the fact that the sarge cant be targeted in HtH.

[neil]

Power weapons are correct to take:
- On independant characters with I4 or more
- On any model with I5 or more

Power fists are correct to take:
- In every other circumstance

In my humble experience. Although there's nothing wrong with giving powerfists to squad leaders with I5.

[killermike]

I tend to take PF with my mobile squads, my base line squad(s) tend to have Power weapon as they are less likely to get engaged and even if they do they have something to do damage. This gives me 5-10pts to play around.

Cheers

KM

[Daemonstrate]

something about a fist.
Most of my opponents deserve a good fisting.

[TinBane]

Because power weapons really aren't that great!

http://web.aanet.com.au/envirosaphe/hosted...LordAttacks.pdf

A comparison of chaos lord weapons, using binomial statistics.
Even with the "roll a 1, and get NO attacks", a chaos lord with a powerweapon is as likely (or more likely) to get NO kills as a chaos lord with any of the daemon weapons (except for the khornate one).

Powerfist/TwinLCs are very close to each other in terms of damage against a standard marine, but of course the LCs are more expensive, and strike before the powerfist.

[XxSolitairexX]

They also have no anti tank/MC potential. Agree with the above; powerfists on models which cannot be directly targeted and power weapons on models that can (except ork warbosses, mmmm S10).

[neil]

They also have no anti tank/MC potential. Agree with the above; powerfists on models which cannot be directly targeted and power weapons on models that can (except ork warbosses, mmmm S10).

Well, an ork warboss can't take a power weapon, so there's not much choice there

[XxSolitairexX]

Yes but they can be targeted out.

[Blackhearts Reaver]

General:

PW if you are INIT5 or can take str5

PF on sgt in units (unless the sgt can be made str5).

LC's will tip the balance to the PWat init... but I would really only do it if you are able to muster str5 so you can hurt all T scores in the game currently....

A PF whilst being slow allows the unit to take on any enemy they engage in h2h:
1.Weak troops (IG,eldar guardians etc)= overkill
2.MEQ(marine,Necron,Chaos)= most effective (and 50-75% of armies you face will be these)
3.Monstrous Creatures (NidsMC,avatar,WL, talos,Daemon princes,
4. Vehicles allows the squad to damage vehicles if shooting at them has failed....
5. Walkers (Dreads,sentinels,Penitent engines,Warwalkers etc) allows them to damage this vehicle type tha can be particularly damaging to troops if the troops have only str4 weapons....)


If you have a PW only you are limited to:
1. and 2.
can cause very minor/lucky damage on some 3. MC (@T7 or less) 4. & 5. Arm10 (if str4) .

for a minor pt upgrade you allow a whole world of possibilities to open up for a squad....

Dedicated h2h should alway carry PF... back up /second line shooting units can sometime go without or just have a PW. If you bother upgrading the sgt yo might as well put the PF on then you can deploy agressively if needed (with all units) and know they can fight off anything....

Str3(6) PF need more concideration as the str 6 doen't afford exceptional results in the 3. 4. 5. areas above.....

[TinBane]

If you have to pay for a power weapon, then it's probably a better idea to up it to a lightning claw, or powerfist.

As has already been noted, a powerfist is a better all-rounder.

Also, the PowerFist is not overkill against eldar/dark eldar. It's sensible. You aren't going to strike first anyway, so you may as well strike bloody hard! Plus talos/wraithlord can be hard to deal with using a PW (to put it mildly).

This post has been edited by TinBane: Nov 20 2007, 10:05 AM

[The Fury]

Thats why i like taking PW with my chaos termies (with icon of khorne) and facing them off with SM termies, charge, strike before SMs, laugh as you see ur opponents face crack as he's just lost his/her best and most expensive squad.

end pointless drivel

[YogoZuno]

charge, strike before SMs,

cry as he makes all of his invulnerable saves...