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> 1500 pts ravenguard fast army
dvaston
post Jul 6 2018, 11:58 PM
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Just wanted to get some feedback, its my first proper 8th edition list, only just recently got my hands on the rules and codex etc. Still getting my head around the rules changes from 7th.

I'm aiming for something reasonably competitive but not too cheesy and still fun to play against.

I am going for a fast(ish) themed army, the idea that most things can move around 12" (scouts would be advancing / running) a turn to maneuver away from enemies or rush forwards if needed etc. I used to run a bike army back in 7th edition.

I thought Ravenguard chapter tactics would be good for the -1 to hit, and I am hoping to keep out of 12" range until I am ready to assault something.

I will probably spend the 3 CP to upgrade the captain to a chapter master for the 6" re-rolls to hit bubble, I'll probably take "storm of fire" warlord trait as well. And the predators, landspeeders and attack bikes will hang around him for buffs.

The Librarian can either deepstrike in and try to smite something, or hang out with the chapter master to provide buffs.

The scouts will act as screens / speedbumps. Or could possibly deploy them aggressively forwards depending on the opposition (but I am expecting them to die early on).

The vanguards are there to try to assault something to prevent it from shooting (maybe via deepstriking), or stay with the rest of the army to help with counter assaulting. I was thinking about making them a bigger squad, but hard to find points.

The thunderfire does break my fast theme, but I figure it will just hide at the back of the table. It seems to have decent shooting and for a decent points cost. I might try to use the Tremor Shells strategem. Also the techmarine *might* be able to repair something, if I got desperate.

Questions:
Is it worth having a 4th squad of scouts to have more of a screen? How much screen is enough usually?

I was thinking of swapping one of the scout squads for a 5 man intercessor squad with auto bolt rifles (since they can move 7"-12" (with advancing) and still shoot) not sure if they would be worth it though as I would need to drop some points off other things.

I could change this to a spearhead and an outrider detachment, which would mean I could split up the landspeeders into separate units. Same number of Command Points. Not sure if this would be too cheesy though?

Are predator autocannons worth it? Or is it better to run twin lascannon instead?

Anti tank shooting:
2 predator autocannons
4 lascannons
4 krak missiles

Anti-horde shooting
8 heavy bolters
thunderfire cannon
various bolters

Not sure if this is enough shooting or not?

Comments / Critiques / Advice are welcome smile.gif

Brigade Detachment 3 + 5 Command Points
Ravenguard chapter tactics

HQ
===
Captain on bike 136 pts
- Thunder hammer
- Storm shield
- twin bolters

Librarian 122 pts
- Jump Pack
- Force Axe

Total HQ 258 pts


Troops
=======
5 scouts 55 pts
bolt pistol & combat blade

5 scouts 55 pts
bolt pistol & combat blade

5 scouts 55 pts
bolt pistol & combat blade

Total Troops 165 pts


Fast Attack
============
3 attack bikes 141 pts
- Heavy bolters
- twin bolters

3 attack bikes 141 pts
- Heavy bolters
- twin bolters

2 landspeeders 260 pts
- Heavy Bolter
- Typhoon Missile Launcher

Total Fast Attack 542 pts


Elites
=======
5 vanguard veterans 90 pts
- Jump Packs
- with 2 chainswords each


Heavy Support
==============
Predator 180 pts
- Predator autocannon
- 2 lascannon sponsons

Predator 180 pts
- Predator autocannon
- 2 lascannon sponsons

Thunderfire cannon & techmarine 81pts

Total Heavy Support 441 pts

Grand Total 1496 pts


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Blackhearts Reaver
post Jul 8 2018, 10:51 PM
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all of your Antitank is very vulnerable. the 2 speeders will die if some one wants them dead in 1 turn. The predators will only last 1 turn each. so if the enemy has drop shooting and similar rg AT to yours you will find 2/3 lots of your AT dead in 1 turn.... then you are on the back foot.

I think you will need more stuff to kill high T6+ multi-wound. (HB are great for troop killing but shooting them at T6+ (5+ to wd) as your back-up/supplementary AT will become tedious very quickly. I dont know if it is the same in your area but where I am the T5+ multiwound (esp cheap vehicle wounds) does seem to be on the increase.

Add Plasma pistols to your characters.
Add HB to the Scouts and change at least 1 lot of 3 Attackbikes to 2 MM .... (or maybe 2 speeders).
Put 2 P.axes into the vets >>> relatively cheap and useful str5 -2

You will find the thunderfire will be useful (esp repairing the preds as well.) but what it does is mostly covered in the list. If your list was slower it would be a great asset but with a fast moving list you will not need it as much. Play it but I think it is debatable for this particular list.

A 4 las dev squad with 8 guys is 235 and cant be killed by 3 AT hits.... (a typical enemy return AT fire...). (even 7 devs with 3 las and cherub = 168)

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Jul 8 2018, 11:06 PM


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dvaston
post Jul 9 2018, 01:40 PM
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Thanks BHR, some good points there smile.gif

I like the idea of power axe on the vets if I can find the points.

Thats a good point about a dev squad being able to survive a hit from a high wound weapon. In the past I have always run dev squads as minimum 5 man squads, but I suppose with some extra bodies they may last better than a vehicle would. I just don't like how devs are slow moving. At least they can still shoot and move 6" in 8th edition though, rather than snapshots back in 7th ed.

I can rejig things to get a 3rd landspeeder in there. which would give me a bit more AT.

I thought it was best to keep the scout squads as cheap as possible, but I suppose I could add a HB to one of them if I could find some points spare

Was thinking about dropping the thunderfire and also the librarian (and change the detachment type from a Brigade to maybe an Outrider), and getting some inceptors - which would better fit the fast theme.
The disadvantage is that I would have less command points (only 3 + 1).
Is it better to have more command points (but have to take 2 HQs) or have more actual points to spend on units? Back in earlier editions I generally only ever used 1 HQ to save on points.

I'll have another think about the list.


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Blackhearts Reaver
post Jul 9 2018, 08:19 PM
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-HB and scouts and hellfire Stragem= flexiblity to put wounds on tough stuff from different parts of the map. From useless chaff/screen to a unit that can put wounds on any unit in the game(esp with rerolls).
- P.Axes are better to have wounds than more AP (of PSwords say) cos alot of units these days have 5++ so less use for -3. (better to spend the same pts and get 3+ wd 5+ save than 4+ wd and 6+ (or 5++) save....
-the little 5 man squads for 65-90 points can really be made usefull by adding 10 points of equipment, instead of a useless 65pts.
- a Libbie is a great force multiplier and back up h2h when things get desperate. Smite+ Deny+ (2 out of Veil/ might/ scourge/Nullzone)

-Dev's at 48" survive better than a tank. cos they are protected/screened form small arms/Deep strike/rapid fire that kills them faster . Tanks can't hide from lascannons. Reroll bubbl means move and fire is not really that bad the -1 is not terrible.

Better to have the command points.

- I would also suggest you make the Librarian your Warlord so you can throw the Capt in to combats and not worry about giving up WARLORD in mission. If you had beefier h2h units I would suggest leaving Capt as Warlord (raven guard Warlord trait + item Shield indomitus as the lead charger) but you dont have alot of h2h back-up for him.
Storm of fire is OK but its benefits are Modest even if you get your entire army within 6" its going to be what?maybe 50 shots (Unless a target is within rapidfire of everyone.)50shots=~35-40 hits=~ 6-8 hits at and extra -1.....so maybe 1-2 more fails/ turn under optimal conditions. Looks good on paper but in reality...

Probably better off with Iron resolve/ rites of war/or Imperiums sword.


Stratagems :
-Orbital bombardment great vs Aura lists who bunch up.
-Only in death wink.gif
-Tremor shells if you keep the thunderfire in....
- Strike from the shadows can be used to minimize enemy shooting (Like a dev squad when you are facing Tau/AM with poor terrain.)/ maximise area denial

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Jul 9 2018, 08:23 PM


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Run local tourneys, Make terrain. 75,000+ pts...Play 1-3 games a week...(40K,BFG,BB,FoW).
Good Trader +149 .....QLD Masters: 1st/14(Tau), 1st/12(Daemons), 4th/15(Daemons), 1st/16(Orks), 2nd/15? (IG), 6th/22(Eldar).
AUS ranking=briefly No.1. :) ATC2011=QLD team ChampionsATC2012=QLD 5th
Retired from Competitive play sometime early? 2013

Try to be positive and help... not negative and tear things down.

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dvaston
post Jul 10 2018, 01:07 PM
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Thanks BHR appreciate all the advice. smile.gif


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dvaston
post Jul 25 2018, 02:01 PM
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Hi guys, here is my 2nd attempt at the list. I am still not quite happy with it though.

Wanted to have a lieutenant with jump pack so I can run 2 outrider detachments and have some more command points to play with, but not sure where I would get the points for that.

I don't like the dev squad since its slow, but am struggling to think of something else to do its job.

Was thinking about maybe trying a vindicator since its Fast-ish (can move 10") and also is T8 so might be more survivable than a predator? But the random number of shots seems very unreliable.

Was considering taking the plasma exterminators on the Inceptors to use them for anti-tank duties, but they just seemed too expensive and the random number of shots seems a bit unreliable.

The basic plan is similar to before, most units will stay near the captain for re-roll bubble. The Vanguards and Inceptors will probably go in deepstrike reserve, or they could deploy with the rest of the army if needed for counter assaults.

The scouts are there as chaff / screening units, would like to get a 3rd squad but its hard to find the points.

Would like to fit a couple more bikes into the squads, but struggling to find points also.

Trying to have a mix of anti-tank and anti-infantry shooting, while being fast, and little bit of close combat (from the captain and the Vanguards)
I tried to have some plasma as well as the S8 weapons.

anti-tank shooting:
- 10 missile launchers
- 2 multi meltas
- 6 plasmas

anti-infantry shooting
- 3 heavy bolters
- assault bolters
- various bolters
- frag missiles from the missle launchers if needed

Any advice or feedback is appreciated thanks smile.gif


Outrider detachment
RavenGuard chapter tactics
1500 points

HQ
---
Captain 120 pts
- Jump pack
- Storm Shield
- Power Fist

Troops
-------
5 scouts 55 pts
- 4 with bolters
- sargent with bolter and chainsword

5 scouts 55 pts
- 4 with bolters
- sargent with bolter and chainsword

Total Troops 110 pts

Elites
-------
Vanguard Veteran squad 100 pts
- 5 guys
- 3 with 2 chainswords each
- 2 with Power Axe and chainsword each

Heavy Support
--------------
devastator squad 196 pts
- 7 guys
- 4 missile launchers
- cherub

Fast Attack
------------
Inceptors squad 135 pts
- 3 guys
- 2 assault bolters each

Landspeeder 130 pts
- Typhoon Missile Launcher
- Heavy Bolter

Landspeeder 130 pts
- Typhoon Missile Launcher
- Heavy Bolter

Landspeeder 130 pts
- Typhoon Missile Launcher
- Heavy Bolter

bike squad 213 pts
- 4 bikes
- 2 plasma guns
- sargent with combi plasma and chainsword
- 1 attack bike with multi melta

bike squad 213 pts
- 4 bikes
- 2 plasma guns
- sargent with combi plasma and chainsword
- 1 attack bike with multi melta

Total Fast Attack 951

Grand Total 1477


EDIT: just realised I had made a mistake on the points of the Vanguards. Have adjusted them, then also had to remove 1 bike so the grand total is still under 1500.

This post has been edited by dvaston: Jul 25 2018, 04:43 PM


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dvaston
post Jul 26 2018, 01:14 PM
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Hi again,
Ok here is my 3rd attempt.
Decided to drop the Vanguards to free up points. I figure the inceptors could potentially assault something after deepstriking to tie it up if I was desperate.
Also I only just realised that bikers can swap their bolt pistols for chainswords which improves them in combat a bit, so they wouldn't need to rely on Vanguards for backup as much.

I still don't like the devastators, but am racking my brain to find another way to get more fast ranged anti-tank shooting in there, that won't die easily. Note: I only own 3 Landspeeder models so I can't include any more of them.

Potentially could drop one of the landspeeders to free up some points if needed.

Could use this to get more bodies in other squads, to upgrade the captain to have a Bike, or to try and get a jump pack lieutenant for more Command Points.

However I would need to re-organise things. As I couldn't make this into a Brigade Detachment (5 FA slots), and I couldn't make it into 2 separate Outrider detachments (wouldn't have 3 FA slots + 3 FA slots anymore). Thoughts?

14 missile launchers
6 plasma guns
3 heavy bolters
6 assault bolters
various bolters

Any advice or feedback is appreciated thanks smile.gif

Outrider detachment
RavenGuard chapter tactics
1500 points

HQ
---
Captain 120 pts
- Jump pack
- Storm Shield
- Power Fist

Troops
-------
5 scouts 55 pts
- 4 bolters
- sargent has bolter and chainsword

5 scouts 55 pts
- 4 bolters
- sargent has bolter and chainsword

Total Troops 110 pts

Heavy Support
--------------
7 devastators 196 pts
- 4 missile launchers
- sargent has bolter and chainsword
- cherub

7 devastators 196 pts
- 4 missile launchers
- sargent has bolter and chainsword
- cherub

Total Heavy Support 392 pts

Fast Attack
------------
3 Inceptors 135 pts
- 2 assault bolters each

Landspeeder 130 pts
- Typhoon Missile Launcher
- Heavy Bolter

Landspeeder 130 pts
- Typhoon Missile Launcher
- Heavy Bolter

Landspeeder 130 pts
- Typhoon Missile Launcher
- Heavy Bolter

5 bikes 176 pts
- 2 plasma guns
- sargent has combi plasma
- 2 bikers have chainswords

5 bikes 176 pts
- 5 guys
- 2 plasma guns
- sargent has combi plasma
- 2 bikers have chainswords

Total Fast Attack 877 pts

Grand Total 1499 pts

This post has been edited by dvaston: Jul 27 2018, 04:48 PM


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Blackhearts Reaver
post Jul 27 2018, 12:40 AM
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Change 1 each of your Dev's from a ML to a Lascanon. a single turn of 2 las (for 1d6) and then cherub'd for 2 more hits will turn games when you need 4d6 damage on a Big thing in early game


This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Jul 27 2018, 12:47 AM


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Run local tourneys, Make terrain. 75,000+ pts...Play 1-3 games a week...(40K,BFG,BB,FoW).
Good Trader +149 .....QLD Masters: 1st/14(Tau), 1st/12(Daemons), 4th/15(Daemons), 1st/16(Orks), 2nd/15? (IG), 6th/22(Eldar).
AUS ranking=briefly No.1. :) ATC2011=QLD team ChampionsATC2012=QLD 5th
Retired from Competitive play sometime early? 2013

Try to be positive and help... not negative and tear things down.

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dvaston
post Jul 27 2018, 04:49 PM
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Thanks BHR, that makes sense. smile.gif


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dvaston
post Jul 31 2018, 01:33 PM
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Version 4, I think I am more happy with this now.
Managed to fit in 2 HQs so can have 2 detachments, and thus now 8 CP to play with.
Also swapped out the devs for attack bikes with multi meltas.
The thunderfire is now the only slow unit, but I figure it can hide at the back of the table or something.
Also managed to fit in 3 scout squads for more screening bodies on the table

Have a few points left over - might use that to upgrade the captain to have a bike, or take a combi-plasma on the lietenant or something.

Are hellblasters worth it? They get 10 shots and can advance and shoot. But the Str 6 seems a bit low(?). I could swap them out for bikes with proper Str 7 plasma guns. Thoughts?

Any feedback appreciated thanks. smile.gif

Anti-tank:
- 6 missile launchers
- 5 multi meltas
- 10 plasmas (only Str 6 though)

Anti-infantry:
- 3 Heavy Bolters
- 6 Assault bolters
- Thunderfire
- various bolters

Outrider Detachment no.1
HQ
----
Captain 120 pts
- Jump pack
- Power fist
- Storm Shield

Troops
-------
5 scouts 55 pts
- bolters
- sarge chainsword

5 scouts 55 pts
- bolters
- sarge chainsword

5 scouts 55 pts
- bolters
- sarge chainsword

Total Troops 165 pts

Heavy Support
--------------
5 Hellblasters 175 pts
- assault plasma incinerators

Thunderfire cannon and techmarine 81 pts

Total HS 256 pts

Fast Attack
------------
3 inceptors 135 pts
- assault bolters

Landspeeder 130 pts
- Typhoon missile launcher
- Heavy Bolter

Landspeeder 130 pts
- Typhoon missile launcher
- Heavy Bolter

Total FA 395 pts

Detachment Total 936 pts


Outrider Detachment no.2
HQ
---
Lieutenant 90 pts
- Jump pack
- power fist

Fast Attack
------------
Landspeeder 130 pts
- Typhoon missile launcher
- Heavy Bolter

2 attack bikes 128 pts
- multi meltas

2 attack bikes 128 pts
- multi meltas

1 attack bike 64 pts
- multi meltas

Total FA 450 pts

Detachment Total 540 pts

Grand Total 1476 pts


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