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> Ooh and Ah-ha moments, What combos have people discovered?
Blackhearts Reaver
post Aug 19 2017, 11:14 PM
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all the multi shot (str6-7) that now only wounds on 3+ makes T4 alot more durable. Add an invulnerable and some sort FnP bubble aura and survivability is pretty good.

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Aug 19 2017, 11:15 PM


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Krefey
post Aug 21 2017, 10:30 AM
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QUOTE(Stumphy @ Aug 18 2017, 03:24 PM) *

Sorry, someone said shooty armies are not good in this edition???
nope, you gonna die if you think that.

In fact, conscripts are now one of the most powerful units in the game from what we are seeing. Large numbers of cheap units whether CC or ranged are hugely powerful.

50 conscripts costs barely anything. Admittedly we play power levels not points, but I think they might be even more efficient in points.

No templates means they are damned hard to move.
You charge them and there is a #### ton of overwatch
you kill a few
the commissar shoots one
they step back next turn
ordered to shoot, so rapid fire
they stand and wait for you to charge again so they can overwatch
rinse and repeat

You will have to put sooo many resources into them to shift them off and objective or just kill them
mean while the rest of their army is bombing the crap out of you

Bullgryns can CC Dreadnoughts down point for point
Lasguns can just cut the crap out of anything because of death of a 1000 papercuts
Manticors are brutally rude
Leman Russ's suck

But hordes of Ork and nids would be the same
they tarpit brilliantly then setp away and leave your CC guys with their trousers down to get shot
IG are so incredibly powerful now even with only the Index rules


Sniper the commissar, then blast huge chunks out of the squad, they fail a morale check and lost a bajillion dudes to running away. There are ways to counter it.


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Stumphy
post Aug 21 2017, 12:45 PM
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its just not that simple


sniper the Commissar?

what, the guy behind the building, hiding out of sight behind any number of vehicles, one of 3 commissars?


our local group has played dozens of games in the new edition and "blasting chunks" and routing hordes might look good on paper, but try it in game, it doesn't work as easily as everyone thinks.

In one game someone turned up with the Leviathan dread with its crazy "kill all the things" gun
turn 2 it shot and killed maybe 15 dudes, after that it got charged repeatedly every turn, it withdrew from combat but was prevented from shooting for the entire rest of the game, didn't need to kill it, it just became an expensive box

The fact that 100 of any of the super cheap blobs costs so little means you can spread them out like a virus, but you still have tons of points to spend on other things

So all these comments of "just do this" completely ignores the fact that those giant blobs are supported with elite troops of their own, big guns and other dangerous units.


So the equation becomes very simple


Giant blob costs practically nothing, but is super hard to shift

You either cant shift it, or you spend a huge percentage of your resources trying to shift it, meanwhile blob's owner is ripping you apart with the remainder of their force


The removal of templates has had a significant effect on the meta, and whether it so Boyz, Conscripts or bugs, they can be hellishly difficult to deal with


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Demon
post Aug 21 2017, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE(Stumphy @ Aug 21 2017, 12:45 PM) *


Giant blob costs practically nothing, but is super hard to shift



kill maim burn tongue.gif


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Krefey
post Aug 21 2017, 01:40 PM
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QUOTE(Stumphy @ Aug 21 2017, 12:45 PM) *

its just not that simple
sniper the Commissar?

what, the guy behind the building, hiding out of sight behind any number of vehicles, one of 3 commissars?
our local group has played dozens of games in the new edition and "blasting chunks" and routing hordes might look good on paper, but try it in game, it doesn't work as easily as everyone thinks.

In one game someone turned up with the Leviathan dread with its crazy "kill all the things" gun
turn 2 it shot and killed maybe 15 dudes, after that it got charged repeatedly every turn, it withdrew from combat but was prevented from shooting for the entire rest of the game, didn't need to kill it, it just became an expensive box

The fact that 100 of any of the super cheap blobs costs so little means you can spread them out like a virus, but you still have tons of points to spend on other things

So all these comments of "just do this" completely ignores the fact that those giant blobs are supported with elite troops of their own, big guns and other dangerous units.
So the equation becomes very simple
Giant blob costs practically nothing, but is super hard to shift

You either cant shift it, or you spend a huge percentage of your resources trying to shift it, meanwhile blob's owner is ripping you apart with the remainder of their force
The removal of templates has had a significant effect on the meta, and whether it so Boyz, Conscripts or bugs, they can be hellishly difficult to deal with


Then you take out the elite units instead and worry about wearing down the blobs later. *shrugs* What's the range of the commissar bubble? if it's only 3", then they need to be careful when charging that the commissar is close enough / has room to get into combat as well and not be the target of attacks back to take him out.


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fofjunior
post Aug 21 2017, 02:49 PM
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I tend to agree with the fact that limiting templates to D3 or D6 has nerfed the crap out of them.

GW has simply moved the meta to horde armies being far more effective this edition. Elite armies suffer from multi wound syndrome and not being cost efficient for there points.

By multi wound syndrome I mean having more than 1 wound and therefore more susceptible to the abundance of multi damage weapons.

I am finding that the further we go into 8th the more some builds are becoming unbalanced - hordes I'm looking at you dry.gif

I also don't agree with GW's stupid ruling on flyers not being able to hold objectives - why would I now want to buy and play with something that can't even hold a unoccupied objective. Giving Objective secured to infantry models was sufficient to nerf them or even saying any land based model takes preference would have been enough when coupled with the new instant death rule.

It's the same with necrons and there reanimation protocols. Happy to have them roll once but not this constant rolling each turn on a 50% success rate with a cryptek. It's just free models. If ever other method of getting free models has been nerf batted (i.e. summoning) then so does this. Once a game is enough.

Anyway rant over - time will tell whether GW sorts it out or we just end up with some lists being stupidly OP again.


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DarkHorse
post Aug 21 2017, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE(Krefey @ Aug 21 2017, 12:40 PM) *

Then you take out the elite units instead and worry about wearing down the blobs later. *shrugs* What's the range of the commissar bubble? if it's only 3", then they need to be careful when charging that the commissar is close enough / has room to get into combat as well and not be the target of attacks back to take him out.


Conga line. It is super easy to bubble wrap a model and conga line between auras with blobs. There is no mandatory movement in the Fight phases only that if you want to move, it must be towards the nearest enemy. If you don't want to move then don't.


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Krefey
post Aug 21 2017, 03:39 PM
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QUOTE(fofjunior @ Aug 21 2017, 02:49 PM) *

I tend to agree with the fact that limiting templates to D3 or D6 has nerfed the crap out of them.


I guess. Maybe. Blast / template weapons can now hit single model units multiple times though, so it's not all nerf bat.

QUOTE

I also don't agree with GW's stupid ruling on flyers not being able to hold objectives - why would I now want to buy and play with something that can't even hold a unoccupied objective. Giving Objective secured to infantry models was sufficient to nerf them or even saying any land based model takes preference would have been enough when coupled with the new instant death rule.


Because a vehicle moving at the speed of a jet fighter (or faster) is totally capable of holding a position for more than 2 seconds...

QUOTE

It's the same with necrons and there reanimation protocols. Happy to have them roll once but not this constant rolling each turn on a 50% success rate with a cryptek. It's just free models. If ever other method of getting free models has been nerf batted (i.e. summoning) then so does this. Once a game is enough.

Anyway rant over - time will tell whether GW sorts it out or we just end up with some lists being stupidly OP again.


Not sure what the issue with Necrons is. It's always been part of their fluff. If it's just that they can keep testing each turn, in a game that's way more brutal in killing things than it has been previously, then I dont' see the issue really.

QUOTE(DarkHorse @ Aug 21 2017, 03:03 PM) *

Conga line. It is super easy to bubble wrap a model and conga line between auras with blobs. There is no mandatory movement in the Fight phases only that if you want to move, it must be towards the nearest enemy. If you don't want to move then don't.


That is true. I also checked and their aura is 6", not 3". Ah well. If someone wants to waste time moving 150+ models around, that's their choice.


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fofjunior
post Aug 21 2017, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE(Krefey @ Aug 21 2017, 03:39 PM) *

I guess. Maybe. Blast / template weapons can now hit single model units multiple times though, so it's not all nerf bat.

Because a vehicle moving at the speed of a jet fighter (or faster) is totally capable of holding a position for more than 2 seconds...

Not sure what the issue with Necrons is. It's always been part of their fluff. If it's just that they can keep testing each turn, in a game that's way more brutal in killing things than it has been previously, then I dont' see the issue really.


I agree that blast or template weapons are not all nerf bat but I don't think they have thought it through very well. Take a dark talon's rift cannon for example D3 sounds okay unless you roll a 1/2 each turn and then miss with that shot. It's crap for its points now that it can't take objectives and yes I understand the it's a supersonic jet but I would counter argue that controlling the airspace above can equate to control of the ground underneath, hence why troops have objective secured.

The issue with Necrons is that constantly re-rolling for reanimation means you are giving them free points each game - in matched play that equates to an imbalance. Make it like the death guard roll - on a 4+ the model reknits and gets back up, failure means the model is removed.

The mechanic in game (matched play only) should temain the same for each army no matter what you call it.

It is an issue because again in matched play if you have to shoot everything at a block of warriors that are cheap then the games balance tactic wise changes.


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Krefey
post Aug 21 2017, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE(fofjunior @ Aug 21 2017, 04:23 PM) *

I agree that blast or template weapons are not all nerf bat but I don't think they have thought it through very well. Take a dark talon's rift cannon for example D3 sounds okay unless you roll a 1/2 each turn and then miss with that shot. It's crap for its points now that it can't take objectives and yes I understand the it's a supersonic jet but I would counter argue that controlling the airspace above can equate to control of the ground underneath, hence why troops have objective secured.


Real life (and I really hate using that as an example) would say otherwise. Your jet controls the airspace only so long as it is able to maintain any sort of proximity to it. Troops can easily move in to the area after an air strike has been completed. Let alone the question of fuel / ordinance reserves needed to hold positions. In just about every conflict, the only thing air power is good for is pounding enemy positions or suppressing their mobility. It does not remove their ability to hold ground. Even when you're overhead.

QUOTE

The issue with Necrons is that constantly re-rolling for reanimation means you are giving them free points each game - in matched play that equates to an imbalance. Make it like the death guard roll - on a 4+ the model reknits and gets back up, failure means the model is removed.

The mechanic in game (matched play only) should temain the same for each army no matter what you call it.

It is an issue because again in matched play if you have to shoot everything at a block of warriors that are cheap then the games balance tactic wise changes.


The mechanic is not free extra dudes like summoning used to be. It is included in their points cost as an ability. It's not summoning extra units. It's like a medic / apothecary reviving a "dead" model, except it's somewhat better.


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rogal_dorn
post Aug 28 2017, 07:53 PM
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QUOTE(fofjunior @ Aug 21 2017, 02:49 PM) *

I tend to agree with the fact that limiting templates to D3 or D6 has nerfed the crap out of them.

GW has simply moved the meta to horde armies being far more effective this edition. Elite armies suffer from multi wound syndrome and not being cost efficient for there points.




Wait so after ten years my grot army is finally useful??


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morsla
post Aug 28 2017, 08:27 PM
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Demon
post Aug 29 2017, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE(rogal_dorn @ Aug 28 2017, 07:53 PM) *

Wait so after ten years my grot army is finally useful??


How to brigade an army in 1k games?


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QUOTE(WitchFinderGeneral @ Jul 2 2017, 05:43 PM) *

Being a little bitch is in my genes apparently.
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rogal_dorn
post Aug 30 2017, 09:30 AM
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QUOTE(Demon @ Aug 29 2017, 12:49 PM) *

How to brigade an army in 1k games?


ELI5 pls


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Demon
post Aug 31 2017, 10:27 AM
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QUOTE(rogal_dorn @ Aug 30 2017, 09:30 AM) *

ELI5 pls


there are a bunch of army force organisations now & the bigger ones net you more command points to burn on strategy card type bonuses


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QUOTE(WitchFinderGeneral @ Jul 2 2017, 05:43 PM) *

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DarkHorse
post Sep 9 2017, 01:49 AM
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http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/09/40k...f-the-meta.html

Looks like the Conscript blob is an unstoppable juggernaut.


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Rod.H
post Sep 11 2017, 12:12 AM
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I see psykers in that list, so some anti-psyker should do something and the same with flamers, snipers, orbital bombardment and assault cannons. Though if GW left templates in - pie plate!!
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