Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Would you play in a Power Level tournament?
Morgrim
post Jul 28 2017, 11:59 AM
Post #1


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 1,667
Joined: 15-April 06
From: Sydney Australia
Member No.: 2,692



I would love to play in PL tourney as long as WYSIWYG is strictly enforced. If you want the toys model them! What are your thoughts?


--------------------
Cheers

Morgrim
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Borzag
post Jul 28 2017, 12:08 PM
Post #2


BORZAG 2.0
Group Icon

Group: Staff
Posts: 5,559
Joined: 19-November 04
From: At the bar with your girlfriend
Member No.: 177



POWER LEVEL: Yeah, it's what we're focusing on as we learn the rules in The Shed smile.gif seems to work fairly well. So I'd be up for more games of this.

TOURNAMENT: Eh... maybe. The Warhammer "WAAC" scene kinda killed that for me in a very thorough way (and tbh some of the 40K players in 4th weren't much better), but Malifaux's more relaxed atmosphere brought me back. So it'd have to be pretty chill.

I do agree re: WYSIWYG in this regard though. Because PL is so coarse you'd need to make sure gear's locked in somehow. The only exception I'd give is to Named characters, but only because as a rule they can't change gear.


--------------------
QUOTE(Bajau @ Nov 14 2007, 06:56 PM) *
Mate I'll pay MONEY to sit there and watch Jose get Whupped..Never seen someone lose which such style!
QUOTE(Big_al @ Nov 3 2008, 08:46 PM) *
The first rule about fight club is that you have to fight borzag
QUOTE(Wombats @ Aug 8 2012, 11:00 AM) *
Excuse me, I need to go change into tighter pants, there are some people in a ten mile radious who do not have intimate knowledge of my junk.
QUOTE(Borzag @ May 3 2013, 09:21 PM) *
it's now gotten to the point where I have a Pavlovian montage response: if montage music plays, I lift and/or burpees
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Mango
post Jul 28 2017, 12:14 PM
Post #3


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 6,654
Joined: 19-November 04
From: Adelaide
Member No.: 84



As the system is quite new and many people are still finding their feet i think small 1 day, 3 game PL tourneys would be great to allow people to get into the system.

However, I think after a few months once the local community has become accustomed to the new rule set changing to points would be appropriate.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Chaplain_Fortis
post Jul 28 2017, 12:44 PM
Post #4


Authority Bared
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 101
Joined: 10-January 08
From: Melbourne
Member No.: 4,901



Why not just make people add up their points? It's not that hard...


--------------------
Existential memes for nihilistic teens
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Krefey
post Jul 28 2017, 01:45 PM
Post #5


Phoenix Lord of the Forums
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 15,645
Joined: 19-November 04
From: Babylon 5
Member No.: 98



QUOTE(Chaplain_Fortis @ Jul 28 2017, 12:44 PM) *

Why not just make people add up their points? It's not that hard...


Because PL is easier to do and less fiddly?


--------------------
The Hobby Transporter is beginning to ship to backers! Keep an eye out for it going live on the Laser Shark Designs website!

www.celestial-lions.net

Laser Shark Designs
Webstore
Offering custom laser cut goods for your gaming needs :)
(I'm just starting out, but would welcome requests / input)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Chaplain_Fortis
post Jul 28 2017, 02:21 PM
Post #6


Authority Bared
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 101
Joined: 10-January 08
From: Melbourne
Member No.: 4,901



You're really asking how you would feel about playing in a tournament setting where the points level is 900-1200 or 1300-1750 tho. Doesn't sound conducive to tournament play to me.
It's not that hard to add up numbers. I doubt it's keeping people away. Battlescribe will do it for you if you ask it nicely.


--------------------
Existential memes for nihilistic teens
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Krefey
post Jul 28 2017, 03:05 PM
Post #7


Phoenix Lord of the Forums
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 15,645
Joined: 19-November 04
From: Babylon 5
Member No.: 98



QUOTE(Chaplain_Fortis @ Jul 28 2017, 02:21 PM) *

You're really asking how you would feel about playing in a tournament setting where the points level is 900-1200 or 1300-1750 tho. Doesn't sound conducive to tournament play to me.
It's not that hard to add up numbers. I doubt it's keeping people away. Battlescribe will do it for you if you ask it nicely.


It's easier to add up fewer numbers though smile.gif


--------------------
The Hobby Transporter is beginning to ship to backers! Keep an eye out for it going live on the Laser Shark Designs website!

www.celestial-lions.net

Laser Shark Designs
Webstore
Offering custom laser cut goods for your gaming needs :)
(I'm just starting out, but would welcome requests / input)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Borzag
post Jul 28 2017, 03:08 PM
Post #8


BORZAG 2.0
Group Icon

Group: Staff
Posts: 5,559
Joined: 19-November 04
From: At the bar with your girlfriend
Member No.: 177



You're assuming a hard rules, experienced players only need apply tournament though. Yay.

Let's say I have kids (I don't that I know of). I want to introduce them to gaming, and they show interest in playing more people. There's a couple of options here:

1. Game club. Could be a goer, but honestly it's kinda hard to find beginner friendly people playing 40K (some offense).

2. Tournament specifically geared around new people. No pressure to vary the army, and hell even a Codex isn't required (just plug & play Power Levels out of the box nowadays).

Both have their benefits but I'd err on the side of the newb tourney.

And it's a new edition. EVERYBODY is a newb.


--------------------
QUOTE(Bajau @ Nov 14 2007, 06:56 PM) *
Mate I'll pay MONEY to sit there and watch Jose get Whupped..Never seen someone lose which such style!
QUOTE(Big_al @ Nov 3 2008, 08:46 PM) *
The first rule about fight club is that you have to fight borzag
QUOTE(Wombats @ Aug 8 2012, 11:00 AM) *
Excuse me, I need to go change into tighter pants, there are some people in a ten mile radious who do not have intimate knowledge of my junk.
QUOTE(Borzag @ May 3 2013, 09:21 PM) *
it's now gotten to the point where I have a Pavlovian montage response: if montage music plays, I lift and/or burpees
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Chaplain_Fortis
post Jul 28 2017, 03:19 PM
Post #9


Authority Bared
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 101
Joined: 10-January 08
From: Melbourne
Member No.: 4,901



Yep, sounds good. It's great for pickup games and children who can't add more than 10 numbers together. I'm not sure "take however many extra points you want" is a good buyline for organised play though. I certainly wouldn't bother because I know nerds can't be reasonable with that stuff.


--------------------
Existential memes for nihilistic teens
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Blackhearts Reaver
post Jul 28 2017, 03:24 PM
Post #10


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 10,871
Joined: 23-November 04
From: Laidley, QLD
Member No.: 446



The problem with Power Levels is you would still be letting in experienced powergamers....
they will deliberately go thru a codex/index and find the things that gain a lot from the "free" add-ons..

Gretchin/most banners/cheap HQ /cheap units= maybe 0 to +5% of extras.
Meganobs/sternguard/ chaos termies/thunderwolves etc= +50 to +90% free extras.

You you could have 50 power small tourney and Joe average turns up with about 800-950 points.. and mr WAAC turns up and fight s him with 1650 points.... Not conducive to fairness. The TO would have to vet/limit lists pretty hard....


As an example I turned up to a local event with 50 power(just casual learn to play day) a while back and a Necron player said he had 1000points. Which is supposedly about ~ 50 power..... I was a bit suss. Worked out the points and he had 61 power.(all those Character bubbles cost a lot of Power level but not many points....). wink.gif I quickly added another 11 points.... and we got under way. lol

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Jul 28 2017, 03:57 PM


--------------------
Run local tourneys, Make terrain. 75,000+ pts...Play 1-3 games a week...(40K,BFG,BB,FoW).
Good Trader +149 .....QLD Masters: 1st/14(Tau), 1st/12(Daemons), 4th/15(Daemons), 1st/16(Orks), 2nd/15? (IG), 6th/22(Eldar).
AUS ranking=briefly No.1. :) ATC2011=QLD team ChampionsATC2012=QLD 5th
Retired from Competitive play sometime early? 2013

Try to be positive and help... not negative and tear things down.

"I passionately believe that's it's not just what you say that counts, it's also how you say it - that the success of your argument critically depends on your manner of presenting it." Alain de Botton
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Chaplain_Fortis
post Jul 28 2017, 03:34 PM
Post #11


Authority Bared
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 101
Joined: 10-January 08
From: Melbourne
Member No.: 4,901



Yup. That's how you use power levels. Necrons and stealer cult in particular don't really play nice with power levels.


--------------------
Existential memes for nihilistic teens
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Mango
post Jul 28 2017, 05:31 PM
Post #12


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 6,654
Joined: 19-November 04
From: Adelaide
Member No.: 84



QUOTE(Blackhearts Reaver @ Jul 28 2017, 02:54 PM) *

As an example I turned up to a local event with 50 power(just casual learn to play day) a while back and a Necron player said he had 1000points. Which is supposedly about ~ 50 power..... I was a bit suss. Worked out the points and he had 61 power.


So he was blatantly cheating and not even at a level of a 'child who cant add more than 10 numbers together' lol

Name and shame the cheat, if he cheats on a learn to play day he will cheat at every event.


User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Blackhearts Reaver
post Jul 28 2017, 07:13 PM
Post #13


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 10,871
Joined: 23-November 04
From: Laidley, QLD
Member No.: 446



it was just a casual day and he wanted to play points not Power levels. It just highlighted the major differences in the two systems..... they are not equivalent. even though they say it is approximately 1/20 that is only about as approximate as apples and oranges...


It means as a TO if you are going to run Power Levels and keep it casual you have to say it is such in a Tourney direction statement or such. Explain you only want people to bring a variety of things and play for fun.

Not 10 meganobs with Kombiflamer and killsaws on everyone..... or a 4 units Thunder cav army all with TH+SS or TH+PP


--------------------
Run local tourneys, Make terrain. 75,000+ pts...Play 1-3 games a week...(40K,BFG,BB,FoW).
Good Trader +149 .....QLD Masters: 1st/14(Tau), 1st/12(Daemons), 4th/15(Daemons), 1st/16(Orks), 2nd/15? (IG), 6th/22(Eldar).
AUS ranking=briefly No.1. :) ATC2011=QLD team ChampionsATC2012=QLD 5th
Retired from Competitive play sometime early? 2013

Try to be positive and help... not negative and tear things down.

"I passionately believe that's it's not just what you say that counts, it's also how you say it - that the success of your argument critically depends on your manner of presenting it." Alain de Botton
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Big K
post Aug 5 2017, 08:20 AM
Post #14


Royal Pain in the ...
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 2,865
Joined: 3-November 08
From: Brisbane Queensland
Member No.: 6,368



I initially thought PL would be the way to go in friendly games all the time, however after a closer look we only play points, even socially. It's just far to easy to have extremely unbalanced games when using PL, which can be bad when getting people back into it or encouraging new players. Points are easy to work out and so much better, I would much rather help a player work out their points etc than play a PL game. So in answer to the opening question. .. Hell no I would never play in a PL event.


--------------------
Current Armies

40k - Chaos Marines
Warmachine Cygnar
Infinity - Combined
Fantasy 8th ed - Tomb Kings
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
VisOne
post Aug 5 2017, 09:13 AM
Post #15


Combat Simian
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 2,810
Joined: 21-March 12
From: Brissny-Land
Member No.: 12,758



At the end of the day if your an experienced TO, know your market, can effectively use social pressure and vet lists prior to the event than sure Power would/could work.

If I was going to run it the first thing I would do is is immediately DEVALUE coming 1st/2nd/3rd though. Want to be 'that guy' who is the biggest fish in the smallest pond with the min/maxed list thats fine but I won't heap praise on you for it.

I would save the biggest and best prizes for the hobby aspects like themed force, painting and sportsmanship plus plenty of random raffle draws.

That way its all about little man dollies on the table, fun organised play and embracing the social contract of playing with others not just you closest friends/club members/local store names.

Ohh and most of all I would 100% remove any mention of the word Tournament or any other competition specific wording again to mitigate people feeling the need to compete and the propagation of the notion that you can auto win by making hard lists.

This post has been edited by VisOne: Aug 5 2017, 09:15 AM


--------------------
What I do: Chef by trade, arsehole by choice; but I play games and build the following when I'm not being either.

Vissy's Threads: Aeldari Done Cordonblue, Tries to Count to Infinity, Bug Hunt Corridors, Takes on Zen Terrain, Haydens Folly Table & Making Terrain on Budget
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
D_Arquebus
post Aug 5 2017, 10:42 AM
Post #16


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 1,202
Joined: 30-August 10
Member No.: 10,027



QUOTE(VisOne @ Aug 5 2017, 09:13 AM) *


Ohh and most of all I would 100% remove any mention of the word Tournament or any other competition specific wording again to mitigate people feeling the need to compete and the propagation of the notion that you can auto win by making hard lists.


This +100.

Don't call it a Tournament if it's not about trying your hardest to win. Call it an Organised Play Day or something. This along with the other suggestions made by VisOne would mean people are more likely to approach it in the spirit intended. smile.gif


--------------------
ausbowl.com - The home of Australian Blood Bowl
theendzone.co- The burgeoning home of New Zealand Blood Bowl
thenaf.net - Home of the NAF (Worldwide Blood Bowl Community)
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Blackhearts Reaver
post Aug 5 2017, 11:33 AM
Post #17


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 10,871
Joined: 23-November 04
From: Laidley, QLD
Member No.: 446



Organised Play would be a good thing.

You cant peer pressure or Strong arm people into not being dicks in a tournament sense.

I tried it extremely hard for about 2 years and even got most of the people who were vets to agree to it. All it took was a couple of B ranking players who were real dicks (and they know who they are) to still bring filth and then the A- players got shafted and ego's got dented and then 2 tourneys later they caved and brought filth too. I and a couple of others kept bringing tough but themed 3/5 comp (and beat the 1/5 or 0/5 math crunched ####) but once the players from 5th to 15th all gave up the Gentleman's agreement was no more...

Hard rules a good guideline statement and experienced players/TO's rejecting lists is the only surefire way to Tourneys that are competitive but still fun enough to encourage newer players .

Organised play days should be a regualr part of the calendar, but Tourneys should still have a place. Enabling people play people they would not normally play allows for growth, both tactically and socially.

Sometimes the road is not completely smooth but if the players dont take control of their community and show there is a social contract the community is doing nothing and allowing the "evil" to flourish.

Stands have to be taken so all improve. Including the ones that are "That guy". If no one reaches out to those players what kind of community are you. If they refuse the olive branches then you can say you did all you could. If you just snigger behind their back and make them social pariah's are you any better than them???

...............

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Aug 5 2017, 11:33 AM


--------------------
Run local tourneys, Make terrain. 75,000+ pts...Play 1-3 games a week...(40K,BFG,BB,FoW).
Good Trader +149 .....QLD Masters: 1st/14(Tau), 1st/12(Daemons), 4th/15(Daemons), 1st/16(Orks), 2nd/15? (IG), 6th/22(Eldar).
AUS ranking=briefly No.1. :) ATC2011=QLD team ChampionsATC2012=QLD 5th
Retired from Competitive play sometime early? 2013

Try to be positive and help... not negative and tear things down.

"I passionately believe that's it's not just what you say that counts, it's also how you say it - that the success of your argument critically depends on your manner of presenting it." Alain de Botton
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Chaplain_Fortis
post Aug 5 2017, 01:47 PM
Post #18


Authority Bared
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 101
Joined: 10-January 08
From: Melbourne
Member No.: 4,901



Bhr - the hero we deserve


--------------------
Existential memes for nihilistic teens
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st November 2017 - 02:42 PM