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> Primaris disscussion, all things new Primaris
Emperor Fooble
post Aug 11 2017, 01:10 AM
Post #21

Don't throw off my groove
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From: Warragul, Victoria
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My thoughts on the new Primaris Marines.

For ease, I'll split them into 3 categories, superior, competitive and less competitive.


Due to good internal balance, this section is thankfully not very crowded. I consider these units to be outstanding.

:Aggressors with Boltstorm Gauntlets and Fragstorm Grenade Launchers.
Clocking in at 129pts for a minimum squad of 3, these fellas are in my humble opinion, exceptional and too good for their points.
Defensive wise they suffer somewhat, toughness 5, two wounds with a 3+ armour save means that they have resilience against small arms, but heavy weapons blow them off the table with contemptuous ease which is a common occurrence in your opponents first turn of every game I have played with them so far.
The upside? They have cool models, being infantry they can pick up the relic, climb stairs and get easy cover saves. Oh, and they put out a ridiculous amounts of shots. 6+d6 assault bolter shots at 18 inches range each.
All in all a handful of S4 - bullets doesn't sound too threatening, however they have two special rules that bring the unit to life.
1: They can advance and shoot without suffering any penalties, so for little fatties they are relatively mobile, moving 5+d6 inches a turn.
2: If they remain stationary in your turn they can fire twice, including during overwatch. The gravy train rule. So 3 guys put out 36+6d6 bolter rounds. Horde clearance dialled up to 10, and given S4 wounds most vehicles on a 5+, they can punch holes in tanks if they get bored through sheer weight of fire.

And if your aggressors find themselves in combat, their gauntlets double up as powerfists. With two attacks base (3 for the Sergeant) they can defend themselves, and thus far are actually the best Primaris close combat unit apart from the Gravis Captain.

The large amount of shots also combo's very well with all the auras that Space Marines have access to in the form of re-rolls or through the warlord trait 'Storm of fire' which causes wound rolls of a 6 to have rend 1 (or an additional rend if the weapon already has a rend value, aka a heavy bolter would be -2).

All in all, Aggressors are incredible due to the trifecta of being cheap, massive potential damage output and heavily boosted by force multipliers.
You could run an army of nothing but boltstorm aggressors and supporting characters and be competitive... and boring.

Best Chapter Tactic:
1: Raven Guard. Anything that boosts survivability is a welcome addition to this unit as it has a massive target on it's head.
2: Iron Hands – same as above
3: Imperial Fists – ignoring cover gets even more mileage out of all those bullets.

:Primaris Ancient.
This laddy is the salt bringer.
Now while I'm of the belief that both old marine ancients are actually better then the Primaris version, I'm not reviewing old marines. (but for those of you that asked – the Chapter Ancient comes with a 2+ armour save and a power sword, and the Company Ancient can swap his pistol for a melee weapon or combi gun allowing either to actually contribute something to the match apart from waving a banner around. And what does the banner do? Friendly chapter units within 6 inches add 1 to their leadership and whenever a friendly chapter infantry model is destroyed within 6 inches roll a d6. On a 4+ that model can make a shooting attack as if it were the shooting phase, or make an attack as if it were the fight phase, before being removed as a casualty.
An incredible force multiplier. He allows your units to fight on after death, even in your opponents turn which forces your opponent to be very clever with their target selection. It also adds a great deal of value to your squishy elite units (read: the entire army).
If there are two downsides, they are that the Primaris Ancient himself doesn’t do anything and he can really frustrate your opponent when you halt his turn to shoot at his dudes in his shooting phase with your dead mans. Personal experience has taught me that losing a few elite squads but killing 10 Chaos Cultists and 3 Chaos Space Marines in your opponents turn is a saltworthy insult.

The flipside of course, is not taking one or more Ancients really exposes you to being two turn wiped off the table. Primaris Marines are a deceptively brittle glass cannon army, made up of small model count, expensive elite units. Like any marine faction each failed armour save hurts, but heavy weapons, even in small numbers can and will tear apart several squads per turn.
I've found in my games that Primaris are a two turn army. The damage output is intense, especially the anti infantry shots (I think all these boys secretly identify as an A10-Warthog) however the losses you take, even if you hug cover are large. By the end of the second turn your elite units will most likely all be dead so you need them to have inflicted enough damage that your regular grunts (Reavers and Intercessors) can push the advantage over the next 3-4 turns and take out the win.

The Ancient REALLY helps with this, especially if your opponent gets first turn and has a realistic amount of ranged weaponry, it allows you to, good rolling willing, get some shots out of the 2-4 130-200pt squads you are about to lose.

Best Chapter Tactics:
1: Raven Guard - makes life a little bit harder for those snipers
2: Iron Hands - see above.
3: Salamanders – get more value out of his krak grenade throwing skills

One day Archmagos Cawl saw a Razorback and knew he could do better. 'Hold my beer' he declared and off to his workshop he went.
The new tank, wanting to fit in, also decided to identify as an A10-Warthog because you can never shoot enough bullets.
I haven't fielded one of these beauties yet, so I'm not really sure if it belongs in the superior category yet, but better to be safe then sorry I am sticking it here, for now.

This thing has a LOT of guns. It will slow down shooting phases.
These guns have really annoying names, like having both an Icarus heavy stubber and an Ironhail heavy stubber on the same model, it gets confusing.

It can be kitted out as a tank destroyer, horde muncher or a mixture of both.
For its two main guns, you can choose either a twin heavy bolter or a twin lascannon, and either a gatling cannon (12 shot heavy bolter) or las talon (2 shot 24 inch range lascannon).
Then you get 3 little rotating death pods that can each have a stormbolter, fragstorm launcher (d6 bolter shots), or one of them can have an anti air rocket pod or.....an anti air....heavy stubber? I don't know how many planes you are going to shoot down with three S4 shots but its an option, I guess.
It also comes with 2 krakstorm grenade launchers (18 inch range krak grenade) annnnd several options on top of the turret ranging from more heavy stubbers (of course including the fabulous anti air version) to a mini gatling cannon (6 heavy bolter shots at 24 inches).
Also it has power of the machine spirit so it can move and shoot without suffering the heavy weapon penalty.
In conclusion; pewpewpewpewpewpewpew.

Defensive wise it is almost as tough as a land raider, with 16 T8 wounds and a 3+ armour save.

It can transport 10 primaris models (not old marines), and gravis armour models count as 2 models. (aggressors and Gravis Captain)

Where the Repulsor really comes into its own, and earns its possibly temporary spot on the 'Superior' list, is its array of special rules. It is a trolltastic tank!
Charging units must subtract -2 from their charge roll.
It has fly. So if you declare a charge, you eat a whole lot of overwatch bullets. Then the damnable thing flies off, shoots you and overwatches again.
Maybe its being chased by a crazy hellbrute or rampaging carnifex? Good thing it has fly, so it can zip up to the second floor of a ruin, safely out of reach.

The Repulsor is an expensive vehicle however, clocking in well over 300 points, more if you load it up with lascannons, so it seems fairly priced. Time will tell!

Best Chapter Tactics: NA

Competitive Section:

Almost all things Primaris fit in here, which is great!

Big marines walking softly, carrying big guns. Stock version carries a 30” range rend 4 plasma gun and the uncanny ability to always be targeted and destroyed the moment the Aggressors are all dead.
These guys only have one downside, there are no ablative wounds, every man lost is an expensive plasma gunner meaning they are a prime target for autocannons and mid range+ weapons looking to score some points. Sorry I lied, they have two downsides. Rolling a 1 to-hit when overcharging their guns really sucks eggs.
For their price however, Hellblasters are an excellent unit, able to dole out substantial damage at long range, and rapid fire 1 doubles their shots once the foe is within 15 inches. Always useful.
They have two alternate loadouts;
1: Their rifle becomes heavy 1, but gains an extra 6 inches range and +1 strength to each profile. Wounding marines on 2+ and the toughest tanks on a 4+ without needing to overcharge is the bees knees, sacrificing damage potential and mobility for range and reliability.
2: Rifle becomes assault 2, loses 6 inches of range and both profiles lose 1 strength. So the unit changes from a mid range jack of all trades weapon, to a mobile elite infantry killer.

Best Chapter Tactics:

1: Salamanders – being able to reroll 1 hit/wound is always fantastic, but it only gets better when a hit roll of 1 can kill your expensive model.
2: Raven Guard – These guys generally want to be at a distance of no shorter then 15” from the enemy, the -1 tohit is massive for their survivability.
3: Ultramarines – if you do get caught in combat, and survive, being able to run off and get in another round of shooting can be the difference between victory and defeat.

Redemptor Dreadnought:

Rawr. Big model, covered in guns, looks as scary as it does cool. This bad boy hates infantry, and he shows this by shooting many, many bullets in their direction, which is a very primaris marine thing to do.
His main gun is either a heavy onslaught gatling cannon (12 shot heavy bolter) or a macro plasma incinerator (wicked name) which is a heavy D6 S8 plasma cannon.
He also rocks a little anti air rocket pod, either 2 stormbolters or fragstorm launches and your choice of a heavy flamer or mini gatling gun (6 shot heavy bolter)

And of course he has a dreadnought fist.

Defensive wise is where the Dread is a little lacking, for 200 points. He is just as tough as a regular dreadnought but with 13 wounds instead of 8.
He is also the single worst dreadnought in close combat, his weapon/profile starts the exact same as your garden variety dread, but the Redemptor gets worse as it takes damage. At its worst profile, it shoots like an Ork and fights like a Guardsman.
His main weapon systems, being heavy weapons suffer -1 tohit if the bot moves, so the Redemptor is best suited for point defence, defending a specific location/group of stationary units. This it does rather well however.

Best Chapter Tactics:

1: Raven Guard – with this it's only one wound short of being as tough as a storm raven which alleviates the Redemptors main drawback; being reliant on an above average heavy vehicle wound pool to survive.
2: Imperial Fists – If loaded out with anti infantry weapons, ignoring cover with 20-30 shots, 18 of which are rend -1 will pay real dividends.
3: Salamanders – Everyone loves rerolls. Especially potent as the Redemptor gets damaged, and if using the plasma cannon, this replaces the Imperial Fist tactic as #2 as getting re-rolls on a random shot powerful weapon (that can overheat) is great.

:Aggressors with Flamestorm Gauntlets.

Exactly the same as the afore mentioned aggressors, except instead of carrying around 6 tactical squads worth of bolters, they have two flamethrowers each.
That one time your squad is lucky enough to have not moved but still be in range of an enemy with an 8 inch weapon, and pump out 12d6 auto hits from 3 models will be glorious. But for the rest of the time, they get no value from either special rule, as it will be a rare day indeed they get the chance to double shoot, and they can already advance and shoot flamers without penalty.
A solid, well performing unit for its cost.
I think the best way to balance Aggressors is to take the fragstorm launcher (d6 S4 shots) off the boltstorm gauntlet version and give it to the flamer type. This would cut down on the absurd shooting of the superior version, while giving the flamers some use out of their special rules.

Best Chapter Tactics:
1: Ultramarines – Maximum usage out of the flamethrowers
2: Iron Hands – Increased Survivability
3: Imperial Fists – ignore cover on lots of hits, wheeee!

Your basic grunt, and boy did these guys get better with the new book.
When the index came out, I thought they were very, very average. The subtle changes presented in the codex however have made them a great pick.
100pts for a squad of 5, same wounds as 10 old tactical marines, more resilient vs small arms fire but much weaker against heavy weapons. They have 2 attacks base and their rifles are 30 inches range rend -1.
Now Sergeants can take a power sword which is fantastic, gives them a fighting chance vs small/weakened assault units.
The squad also gets an auxiliary grenade launcher for free. M32's for everyone, yay! This increases the range of any grenades the squad has (frag and krak) to 30 inches, allowing for some nifty tactical flexibility.
Further adding to the units options, there are two alternate bolters available to the squad.
If you are feeling inspired by Chris Kyle, for 2pts per model you can exchange your bolt rifles for stalker bolt rifles, changing the profile to heavy 1 36” range, Rend -2 Damage 1.
Or if you are more in the mood for Seal Team 6 Delta Force shenanigans, for 1 point per model you can exchange your rifles for auto bolt rifles, 24” range, Assault 2 guns allowing for some nice mobility and the best of the three for fighting hordes.
All up I love these squads and have been running several in each list. The tactical flexibility really pays off, and the rend 1 basic bolters chip away at targets, while lobbing grenades across the map is both satisfying and effective.

Best Chapter Tactics:
Due to the wildly different roles on each weapon, I'll to a per weapon breakdown.

Salamanders is universally useful, rerolls on limited shots is always great, and works wonders when shooting a krak grenade.

Standard kit, Bolt Rifles:
1: Raven Guard – keeps you alive
2: Imperial Fists – a great boon to your rend 1 weapons, allowing them to hit home
3: Ultramarines – Just because you have a powersword, doesnt mean combat is where you want to be.

Stalker Bolt Rifles:
1: Imperial Fists – You are paying the points for these rifles, lets make the most of them. Rend 2 AND ignoring cover will ensure these bullets hurt when they wound. And with long range there is a good chance you wont be taking many return shots.
2: Raven Guard:
3: Ultramarines

Auto Bolt Rifles:
1: Ultramarines – Mobility is this units keynote
2: Imperial Fists – with 0 rend, ignoring cover will make a big difference
3: Raven Guard

:Gravis Captain.
Not cheap, but a solid HQ that can give even Demon Princes a black eye and broken nose. He has 5 attacks which he can put through a master crafted powersword or a power fist depending on opponent, and half a dozen toughness 5 wounds with a 3+/4+ so he is a tough nut.
While his wargear is fixed, you can customise him via relics and warlord traits. Maybe you want a 7 wound 3+ invul Ultramarines face tank, or a supporting character who boosts the shooting of nearby units, along with his good old captain re-roll ones aura.

Best Chapter Tactics:

1: White Scars – What charges faster then a train and hits like a truck? This guy!
2: Salamanders – Gets better at punching things! ...And shooting things with his pistol!
3: Iron Hands – Even tougher!

:Primaris Lieutenant.
Cheap HQ with a nice statline and groovy aura – friendly chapter units within 6 can re-roll 1's to wound. He can either have a power sword or a fancy bolt rifle. Personally I prefer the power sword as he hits on a 2+ in combat, vs 3+ shooting, and 4 power sword swings are more likely to make a difference.
Old marine Lieutenants can be equipped to be better at shooting and close combat (even on the same model), and can take jump packs but you pay for it. Primaris version is cheap and cheerful right out of the box.

Best Chapter Tactics:

1: White Scars – What charges faster then a train and hits like a truck? This guy!
2: Salamanders – Gets better at punching things! And shooting things! (If shooting version, this is #1)
3: Iron Hands – Even tougher! (If shooting version, Imperial Fists is #3)

:Primaris Chaplain.
Does what a chaplain does, and looks awesome doing it.
He gets the typical Primaris character stat boost of +1 wound and attack, and role plays as Dirty Harry, dispensing justice to unlucky punks with his large pistol.
If you were going to take a non terminator/bike chaplain, this guy for an extra 13pts is well worth it.

Best Chapter Tactics:

1: White Scars – What charges faster then a train and hits like a truck? This guy!
2: Salamanders – Gets better at punching things! ...And shooting things with his pistol!
3: Iron Hands – Even tougher!

:Primaris Librarian.
Power creep! ohmy.gif Both an unupgraded Old Marine and Primaris Librarian cost 93pts, yet the Primaris version has a much better statline. Has a magic sword for cutting things, casts spells and gets +1 to his deny the witch tests because of an extra fashionable hood.
I'm not really a fan of the Primaris discipline. It's offensive powers are flops, and its supporting powers are both matchup and position dependant, requiring said space wizard to be sitting in the targets lap.

Best Chapter Tactics:

1: White Scars
2: Salamanders
3: Iron Hands

:Primaris Apothecary.
Does what an Apothecary does. If you like them, then you will like this guy. I love apothecaries, such troll faced jerks.
The Primaris version has a few improvements over the old marine version. First he has the improved statline, 2nd he has a 3 inch range powerful medical pistol (S4 Rend -3 Damage 2), and somewhere along the road he stole a Primaris Chaplains pistol because he has obviously played enough video games to know that two handguns are always better then one.
At the end of the movement phase he can heal a unit of chapter infantry/bikers d3 wounds, or if the squad is at full wounds but has 1 or more casualties, the apothecary can try to resurrect one. Roll a d6, on a 4+ one model is returned to the unit on one wound. If the roll is failed the healer can do nothing (shoot, charge, fight back ect) that turn as he extracts the gene seed.
Each unit can be attended by an apothecary only once per turn.
As a unit, he is bit of a gamble. 50/50 he returns a model or does absolutely nothing, but it is fun bringing back the dead like a dirty Necron. It is also very satisfying resurrecting 100pt+ Centurions.
Combos well with an Ancient.

Best Chapter Tactics:

1: Ultramarines – You don't want this fellow stuck in combat, his entire point is to be keeping up with his squad and keeping them alive. This allows him to do just that, while still firing away (hopefully)
2: Salamanders – re-roll his pewpew
3: Iron Hands – I am a robot

Less Competitive:

I feel odd putting them here, I loved them when they were first released, and the codex only served to make them better. The problem is they are confused in their role.
Statwise they are the exact same as an Intercessor, but instead of a rend one bolter, they have a rend one pistol and a combat knife (+1 attack)
For free they can swap their knife for a bolt carbine, a really cool looking cross between a bolter and an MP5 that is an assault 2 regular bolter.
The unit sergeant cannot however, take any melee weapons, such as a power sword which ensures the unit is barely any better in combat then intercessors, even if equipped with combat knives.
They do not have grenade launchers, sadly.
As an elite choice, not troops, they do not gain access to the objective secured rule which would have given them a really solid purpose.
They have the terror troops rule – enemy units within 3 inches of a reaver are at -1 leadership which is a nifty token rule at best, as Reavers only want to be that close to inferior troops and loyalists don’t have the ability to stack leadership debuffs to make it really potent.
Reavers come free with one exceptional piece of wargear however, shock grenades. Make d3 attacks, any infantry unit hit cannot fire overwatch and are at -1 to any hit rolls.

They also have access to two pieces of wargear, at 2 points per head (can purchase both, if you wanted to for some reason).
Grav Chutes – can deep strike 9” away from the enemy.
Grapnel Launchers – These are very cool. The squad can scale all terrain as if it were flat, so they can jump up and down ruins like ninjas, and can deploy in reserve and arrive on the battlefield within 6 inches of any board edge and more then 9 inches away from the enemy.

I'm a big fan of Grapnel launchers, being able to climb terrain as if it were flat ground is a big deal, both in mobility and clearing large ruins of troops.

The problem with reavers is simple, they are not a good close combat unit – they can beat up guardsmen or tau, but anything that can fight back will defeat them. And Intercessors shoot twice as well, even with similar gear due to the grenade launcher (and still carry a power sword!)
Shock grenades are an amazing gimmick, assuming you get to use them.
Ironically reavers are better off as a close-mid ranged defensive unit, claiming objectives before your slower troops get there holding the line with assault 2 bolters, shock grenades are actually a great overwatch trick because you get d3 shots and if you hit the attackers are at -1 tohit.

While they still have a place in the army and I use them frequently, they are, in my opinion a much less competitive choice then the other units, unless using them in a Black Templars build, in which case they become fantastic.

Best Chapter Tactics:

1: Black Templars. BT can be the strongest Astartes tactic if you build a list around a horde of deep striking units such as Terminators, assault marines, drop pods and reavers as you can send in 10+ charges needing a 9+ with rerolls which can seriously cripple many armies. In this format Reavers are amazing as they are only slightly more expensive basic assault marines but a lot more resilient and of course carry shock grenades which punishes the foe who retreats several units out of the moshpit onslaught.
2: Ultramarines – mobility! Spiderman with a gun running up walls, in and out of combat.
3: Good old Salamanders

Inceptor Squad:

Astronauts so ripped they use heavy bolters as pistols, the original Warthog fan club.
They pump out lots of high caliber bullets, fly around and can deepstrike to ensure they get at least one turn of shooting.
3 of them put out 18 heavy bolter shots (18 inches range), Brrrrrrrrrrrrrt.

The problem is, at 180pts for a minimum squad they evaporate under fire and bleed points. They jump in, shoot, then get obliterated.
Primaris marines are most certainly not lacking in high volume of shots, with the Repulsor, Redemptor and boltstorm Aggressors all doing what the Inceptors do, but better. 20Pts more for a Redemptor Dreadnought, or save a whopping 51 points and get yourself a unit of Aggressors.

If you really like throwing points into the squishiest frame you can, you can equip them with two plasma exterminators each bringing the minimum sized squad up to 258pts. Each Astronaut then gets to carry around a pair of 18 inch range assault plasma cannons.
While I can't deny how cool that is, overcharging is reaaaaally risky, each roll of a 1 costing you 86points, and you may have just found a unit that your opponent will be even more rabid about destroying then Aggressors, which is an achievement in itself....an expensive one.

And for some reason the unit has the most random special rule – crushing charge. After making a successful charge, roll a dice for each Inceptor, on a roll of a 6 the target suffers a mortal wound.
Because in combat is where you want these big boys! If you are charging something that you need the mortal wounds to help you out, chances are something, somewhere has gone terribly wrong.

Cool models, cool idea, just not practical (in a competitive sense). There could be some value in dropping them in next to your blob – with banner and supporting characters to get the most out of the unit; they shoot, die, see the banner and shoot again, but its an expensive parlour trick!

Best Chapter Tactics:
1: Raven Guard – Such expensive models need every chance to survive!
2: If Assault bolters, use Imperial Fists, if Plasma, use Salamanders.
3: Iron Hands

:Primaris Captain.
Get a Lieutenant, let him keep both his power sword and bolter, give him a wound and attack and swap his aura around and you have this guy. And pay a bunch of points for the pleasure.
Old marine captain will do anything this guy can do, only better. Gravis captain would seal club the units that would make mincemeat out of him.
I just don't see a use for him.

Best Chapter Tactics:
1: Salamanders
2: Imperial Fists – Get more value out of your 100pt bolter shot
3: Iron Hands

I've been asked to rate the top 3 Chapter Tactics, so here go's!

1: Raven Guard. So very, very strong. You don't have to build a list around it, its just a supremely useful boost in survivability for your units. And with the latest FAQ, it inherently nerfs hit roll auras, plasma weaponry and many weapons that activate an ability on hit rolls of a 6 – such as Necron tesla weapons. (final nail in that coffin methinks, with guass already being the superior option).
Resilient infantry, supremely tough dreadnoughts, game changing.

Furthermore they get access to a fantastic game changing strategem that you can cheese up. For 1 cp you can essentially deep strike a unit in the deployment phase before the game starts, so the unit is counted as not having moved.
The first use that springs to mind is a big old blob of Aggressors parked within range spewing out shots. Combi weapon veterans unleashing 20 plasma shots into your face is another obvious use. And then you read it further, it doesn’t restrict moving in the movement phase. Helloooo first turn charge. 10 tooled up vanguard vets starting 9 inches away then moving 12.
Stupidly busted. Clearly wasn't thought through at all.

To further cement the Raven Guards status as top doggo, check out Chapter Master Shrike. 150Pt good bloke.
First up, as a chapter master his aura is rerolls all tohit rolls instead of just one's – yes he has that 3 command point upgrade for free. No need for a chaplain!
Friendly Jump pack units within 6 inches of Shrike can re-roll failed charge rolls. Heeeey look they can do Black Templars mass turn one assault trick, only better!
And his lightning claws are Rend -3 damage d3 so he can certainly murderise people.

2: Salamanders.
There isn't a time where having bucketloads of re-rolls up your sleeves wont be useful. This tactic consistently elevates your units, somewhat mitigates bad luck and frees up command points that might be spent on rerolls, so now you can spend them on calling in orbital bombardments and missing everything.

Vulkan He'stan is a solid pick, he is a great fighter with a 2+/3+, lugs around a heavy flamethrower and his spear packs a punch. Furthermore friendly salamanders firing melta or flame weapons within 6 inches of him can reroll hit and wound rolls which is fantastic!
He certainly wont let you down!

3: Black Templars.

Providing you build a list around it, Black Templars can have an amazing 1st turn chargeathon due to their chapter tactic allowing you to reroll charge rolls. Load up on deep striking units and go for gold. Everyone is ready for a couple, but when you show up with a dozen charges and hit combat with half that, many lists will simply fold.
Also has access to a slew of special characters and shuts down psychic nonsense like no other.
Inferior to cheeseing Raven Guard but still has major potential.

Well there you have it people, let me know what you agree and disagree with!

C'mon you apes, do you wanna live forever?
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