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> 1200 Nids Toxic Scream, Version 5 and final!!!
waxsir
post Feb 19 2007, 10:59 AM
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This is also in the modelling diary section since the feed back is for a new army I want to take to arc next year. I知 just reposting it here because ill actually get feed back since this is the list section.

The Idea for the army a line breaking force using Psychic Scream and Venom. I think that list I fairly balanced and thought out. I知 positive there are better hive minds out there than me to help out or agree with my selection.

Tyranids 1200pts

HQ
Tyrant, Lash whip & Bonesword, scything talons, Winged, Toxic Miasma, Toxin Sacs, flesh hooks Psychic Scream 171

Troops 652
10 x Geanstealers, extended carapace, flesh hooks, feeder tendrils 220
16 x Hormagaunts, toxin sacs, 192
16 x Devgaunt, devourers, toxin sacs 160
8 x termagaunts, with out number 80

Elites
Lictor 80

Heavy Support 298
Carnifex, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon, Enhanced Senses, Carapace, Reinforced Chitin 188
2 x Zoanthrope, Psychic Scream, Synapse 110

Just as I look at it in critical eyes the 8 squad of tergamaunts is a bit out of theme and kind of lame for the same cost I could get two raveners. But the reason they are there is for a cheap scoring unit. I found in my limited experience giving units without number stop opponent from targeting them so they make a great scoring unit even at low numbers and if they get targeted ill get them back quick since there going to die fast. But I really like raveners.

Comments / composition and so on please

shnoogens.

PS the new list is on page 2 in red

This post has been edited by waxsir: May 3 2007, 11:40 AM


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There's never been a true war that wasn't fought between two sets of people who were certain they were in the right. The really dangerous people believe they are doing whatever they are doing solely and only because it is without question the right thing to do. And that is what makes them dangerous. Neil Gaiman: American Gods.

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Khysanth
post Feb 19 2007, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 19 2007, 11:59 AM) *
HQ
Tyrant, Lash whip & Bonesword, scything talons, Winged, Toxic Miasma, Toxin Sacs, flesh hooks Psychic Scream 171
Hmmm, winged close combat monster... I personally like the lash whip and bonesword on a tyrant, and if i wanted a close combat monster this is what I'd pick. Catalyst on him plus you get to subtract 1 attack from every model attacking you, makes it a very good option for a tyrant in close combat.

The talons though, are simply put - a waste of points! Talons give you 1 attack for 8points. Until you actually reach combat, it is useless. If you don't want to spend much, then for the same cost you could have 6 more attacks by taking twin-devourers, and still charge your intended target. And if you don't come up against alot of characters, hell, you would even be better to give away your sword/whip and make it 2x twinlinked devourers for 12 attacks before the charge.

Alternatively if you have the points, you are wasting a perfect oppertunity for a S7-8 Venom Cannon. Only one other model in the tyranid range can have such a high strength long ranged weapon. A tyrant shoots more times than a Carnifex, and hits more often too. To not take a Venom cannon is not completely a waste, but just a shame if you don't. So in my opinion, your Tyrant should really be packing one or both these options.

The Psychic Scream is an obvious power of choice if you plan on a few of them for cumulative effect, or simply if you are planning on going CC with your Tyrant. Being a MC, he counts as 10 models for outnumbering, so a little negative to morale always helps.

QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 19 2007, 11:59 AM) *
Troops 652
10 x Geanstealers, extended carapace, flesh hooks, feeder tendrils 220
16 x Hormagaunts, toxin sacs, 192
16 x Devgaunt, devourers, toxin sacs 160
8 x termagaunts, with out number 80
I'll talk about these one at a time. Genestealers. Feeder tendrils to me look good, but it will be rare you actually get the benefit of this on the stealers with WS6, and often your other broods will not be nearby, or dead so they wont get the benefit of it. EC and FH are obvious choice, andyou can't go past a brood of 'stealers and their rending.

Hormagaunts are a good choice, but can tend not to suit an army. To me they work well with Lictors, 'stealers, warriors or raveners. I would use hormies as a screen, or a chance to lock an infantry unit up so they don't shoot you to death. Synapse is a problem with them, since you can over-extend yourself. A winged tyrant, supported by winged/leaping warriors are best for this as a tyrant alone can be brought down with massed firepower. I'm not so sure this is the army for them without the extra synapse, as well as only having one brood. They tend to work better in large numbers, and/or multiple broods. Also work best if supported by more close combat units like 'stealers, raveners, or rending warriors. Also toxins vs initiative I generally would take initiative, but both can work ok.

Devgaunts are also a unit that has to be used in the right circumstance. The extra range and the double the shooting attacks means you want to be shooting with this brood, not getting into CC at all. They don't tend to do alot of damage to a unit when shooting unless in large numbers (30+), so I would class them as a support unit. I am still to find the right army for this unit, and I am not so sure it works with hormigaunts and genestealers, since you cannot shoot the same target they are assaulting. I would think they work well with spinegaunts, and termigaunts, however I am yet to try this. I just think with those units the extra range will come in handy while the other gaunts move forward shooting. They are not really the cheapest shooting unit either, so must be looked after since they are more vulnerable, and less likely to do their job compared to the equally priced hormigaunts. I suggest dropping this brood for another hormigaunt unit. Or if really want to challenge yourself, drop the other hormigaunt brood for another devigaunt brood, or more gaunts.

Small broods of termigaunts are always useful. I don't know if the without number is ever worth it, however you have a point that they can hold your deployment zone/table quarter. Normally I'd say no because it can be more victory points for opponent, but in small number, perhaps it could be alright. You may have found a use for it, afterall.

QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 19 2007, 11:59 AM) *
Elites
Lictor 80

Always good, and the best way to get feeder tendrils to gaunts for the better to hit. 2 would be better with 2 MC's and a brood of beasts.

QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 19 2007, 11:59 AM) *
Heavy Support 298
Carnifex, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon, Enhanced Senses, Carapace, Reinforced Chitin 188
2 x Zoanthrope, Psychic Scream, Synapse 110
Nothing wrong with the Carnifex, although I always go toughness on my Carni's. I want the bigger weapons hurting me less, and not relying on armour or cover to keep him alive. But each to his own.

Zoanthropes are great with Psychic Scream. While you don't have warp blast, you do have a Carnifex and perhaps 'stealers could help with your AT. I think another Venom on the Tyrant would be better though, so you have 2 real ranged options for tank stunning., and the stealers can focus on tearing the infantry to shreds. Otherwise consider warp blast, since Psychic Scream is really more suited to a swarm army, and you have too many 10pt+models for this to help.



I hope I've made some sense. The list isn't all bad, and could do well under certain circumstances. However I think you will find it doesn't work together as well as you hope, until you have tried making some small changes to it, and then you wont look back. Here's 2 sample idea's using your idea's

Tyrant, wings, toxins, senses, venom, sword, scream 202
18 hormigaunts, initiative 198
16 hormigaunts, initiative 172
10 genestealers, carapace 200
12 termagaunts, fleshborer 72
1 lictor 80
1 Carnifex, venom, strangler, chitin, senses 153
2 Zoan, synapse, scream 110


Tyrant, wings, toxins, senses, 2xtwin dev 159
16 devigaunts, devourer, toxin 160
16 devigaunts, devourer, toxin 160
10 genestealers, carapace 200
14 termagaunts, fleshborer 84
12 termagaunts, fleshborer 72
1 Lictor 80
1 Carnifex, venom, strangler, chitin, senses 153
2 Zoan, synapse, blast 130


I'd prolly say the first is the harder list of the 2...

This post has been edited by Khysanth: Feb 19 2007, 05:32 PM


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QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 25 2007, 01:01 AM) *
Khysanth (Plays tough armys and has evolved IMHO as a great tryanid player in vic)
Thanks wax
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waxsir
post Feb 19 2007, 09:16 PM
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Thanks for the very in-depth look ant my list!

Ill answer as you in order as replied but I cant type so in will be to the point.

This list Is essentially for Arc next year and there is not much AV and if I知 desperate I might have a go with the lector, so the kit on the tyrant has no VC but I plan on magnetising everything on him so I can later. I have thought of taking the devours but the way I plan on using him he is going to do a lot of hiding so he will not be doing a lot of shooting. My experience with orks is the last thing you want to do is shoot a unit you want to charge and have it run away or your opponent take the only two models in range. Then standing there looking all tuff with a las cannon; missile launcher and two plasmas all pointing at you. But I still will consider the Devs

Genestealers I知 happy to use the feeder tendrils 10 point on supporting the guants ill risk not maxing my math hammer for times it will pay off.

Hormagaunts are my favourite nids so not much chance of changing, they will be with the tyrant ive gone for Toxin because of theme and since most enemy will be in cover if they know what is good for them will hit same time with catalyst on HT.

Devgaunts this was the unit I was to and fro on. After what you have said I think ill defiantly change these guys to termagaunts or spineguants with Toxin I will have to do the math.

I think the small gaunt brood could work at arc but then probably only in 2 or so missions I think I知 going to role a dice to decide if I should keep them. In practice I think small squads with out number are the only way it can work.

Carnifex I might take off the extended carapace off if the points can be better used elsewhere

Hmmmm thank you. ill think it over do some sums and post a new list tonight. armata_PDT_34.gif


PS. How do you do multiple quotes? unsure.gif

This post has been edited by waxsir: Feb 19 2007, 09:19 PM


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There's never been a true war that wasn't fought between two sets of people who were certain they were in the right. The really dangerous people believe they are doing whatever they are doing solely and only because it is without question the right thing to do. And that is what makes them dangerous. Neil Gaiman: American Gods.

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waxsir
post Feb 19 2007, 11:32 PM
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Revised List I like where this is going. biggrin.gif


Tyranids 1199pts

HQ
Tyrant, Lash whip & Bonesword, scything talons, Winged, Toxic Miasma, Toxin Sacs, flesh hooks Psychic Scream 170

Troops
10 x Geanstealers, extended carapace, flesh hooks, feeder tendrils 220
16 x Hormagaunts, toxin sacs, Adrenal Glands +1 I 208
16 x spinegaunts, spine fist, toxin sacs 128

Elites
Lictor 80

Fast Attack
3 x Ravener, Scything & Rending Claws 120

Heavy Support
Carnifex, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon, Enhanced Senses, Reinforced Chitin 163
2 x Zoanthrope, Psychic Scream, Synapse 110

Well I guess I didn稚 take all the advice on board but I think I did, and it has pushed me in the right direction. With this list it is fast and deadly there is risk in its lack of numbers but what do you think Khysanth?

I will leave the other list for comment so people can see where it is going.

Still would like other feed back and comp scores. Ta




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There's never been a true war that wasn't fought between two sets of people who were certain they were in the right. The really dangerous people believe they are doing whatever they are doing solely and only because it is without question the right thing to do. And that is what makes them dangerous. Neil Gaiman: American Gods.

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Khysanth
post Feb 20 2007, 07:29 AM
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[quote name='waxsir' date='Feb 19 2007, 10:16 PM' post='401598']
PS. How do you do multiple quotes? unsure.gif[/quote]
I do reply on the post, and it brings up a typing screen with all the text in quoted parts. Open the quote with "[quote name='waxsir' date='Feb 19 2007, 10:16 PM' post='401598']" or simply "[quote]", and always end the paragraph in "[/quote]".

I just copy these two lines throughout the thread around the paragraphs I want to quote, but you have to make sure that for every quote you open, you must put a close quote at some point, or all the quotes will not work.


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QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 25 2007, 01:01 AM) *
Khysanth (Plays tough armys and has evolved IMHO as a great tryanid player in vic)
Thanks wax
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Khysanth
post Feb 20 2007, 07:44 AM
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The list looks 50% better. I know you want to hide your Tyrant, but to me hiding him is no the way. It is the way of stealers, and raveners but a Tyrant is tough and can take it so he is better out in the thick of it. If you present your Carnifex and Tyrant for shooting, just watch how your opponents think they are so strong that they will split their heavy firepower and shoot at both of them. And when they do, they will fall short of killing you every time.

There is also only so much cover to block LOS, and you don't want to take it all up by your big guys. Having a Tyrant and Carnifex, especially at Arc, means you have mobile cover every game. You want to have the option to keep an important brood behind them, totally blocked and then charge out when you get close enough. Raveners are good for this, with fleet, and 12" charge. Stealers are also with a good fleet roll.

Consider this also, I know you want toxins for a bit of a theme, but without it on just your spinegaunts will allow you to have 12 more of them! To me, that is worth more than making them S4, since spinegaunts are simply fodder, and/or if they survive, are a scoring unit.

It is looking quite a bit better anyway. I think it deserves 4/5 if not 5/5. 4/5 only because you have Tyrant+Wings.


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QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 25 2007, 01:01 AM) *
Khysanth (Plays tough armys and has evolved IMHO as a great tryanid player in vic)
Thanks wax
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waxsir
post Feb 20 2007, 11:40 AM
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Hmmm where to start Khysanth I do agree with what you are saying but about the tyrant but I don稚 think that 3 attacks in CC is enough and I really struggled giving him the bonesword and lash but I like that it diminishes opponents attacks, and gives me the extra psychic ability to help the gaunts and later in 1500 he will be with flying rippers. I don稚 want him bogged down in combat which is his primary role part of me still is thinking to drop the flesh hooks and bonesword and take a another set of scything talons and a acid maw.

And your right about the spingaunts, they might get upgraded to termagants and ill shift some points around.

Ta K ill put up a revised list later.




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There's never been a true war that wasn't fought between two sets of people who were certain they were in the right. The really dangerous people believe they are doing whatever they are doing solely and only because it is without question the right thing to do. And that is what makes them dangerous. Neil Gaiman: American Gods.

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SmoCho
post Feb 20 2007, 03:25 PM
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Hey Waxsir

Like the list mate! Got some feedback about some changes and different directionthat could make the list a bit more cohesive but keep the unit selections you have (which I think are fluffy, challenging and a bit different, pretty nice work!)

QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 19 2007, 10:32 PM) *

HQ
Tyrant, Lash whip & Bonesword, scything talons, Winged, Toxic Miasma, Toxin Sacs, flesh hooks Psychic Scream 170


I think this guy is probably the part of the list that needs the most work... With your two MCs, if your opponent has a list capable of killing them, they will hunt this guy first. You might be able to keep him in cover i admit, but will that steal cover from your little ones? Also, i think the major problem which has been highlighted is that he may not even be very good at his job as he stands... He will die in combat, but you'll find if you dont take uber 2 twin devourer flyrants this can usually be the case.
You have chosen not to take the usual flyrant maxed out for cc survivability and this will reflect well in your comp scores (plus its something which is refreshing to see here on wau!), but I think at the same time this guy will just get isolated and killed. He is bound to take at least one wound on the way into combat, and if there are powerfists or some such around, theres a fair chance he will die (which could also be catastrophic for your synapse). Giving him wings gives your opponent incentive not to split fire between MCs, which will either force you to deploy your MCs far apart (which may not suit you, esp. given your fragile-ish ball of synapse) or risk your flyrant early which leaves him attacking 'solo'.
Also, if he flies ahead and does manage to break an enemy unit with the scream, they will run further from your foot troops (potentially a bad thing) as well as leaving your flyrant in the open and not engaged (ie. he will be shot to pieces next turn and you gain very little).

I would tone him down. Looking at your list you should be leaning on your carni and more importantly your genes and hormies to be smashing through in hth. Losing the wings will let you deploy as a double threat of 2 MCs, and will force your opponent to choose, leaving them open to mistakes. Use the points to max out your genestealer unit or maybe buy a guard. This will be favourable for your comp but also actually increase your power too IMO. Other than that his loadout is actually pretty good by the looks!

QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 19 2007, 10:32 PM) *

Troops
10 x Geanstealers, extended carapace, flesh hooks, feeder tendrils 220
16 x Hormagaunts, toxin sacs, Adrenal Glands +1 I 208
16 x spinegaunts, spine fist, toxin sacs 128

Elites
Lictor 80


Nice. I must admit i liked the devgaunts in the original list, but at least you have mixed it up! Way too many lists go for the boring spinegaunt/ripper or worse combinations. Your troops are varied and should still pack enough punch, and will get you great comp scores, but they will not survive out of range of their support units - make sure when your troops hit that the hormies and genes hit in same turn or they will be counter charged! Then, as long as your carni and termagants (and lictor mwahahaha) arrive a turn or two later they will help ensure the advance doesnt get bogged down!
I like your list because no one part of it is tooled which is quite a rare thing to see - you are relying on your units working together and supporting each others advance. Its nicely composed.
If you possibly can I would recommend maxing the size of the gene brood - your advance will largely succeed or fail based on the success of these fellas! And believe me - genes bouncing off DOES HAPPEN.

QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 19 2007, 10:32 PM) *

Fast Attack
3 x Ravener, Scything & Rending Claws 120

Heavy Support
Carnifex, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon, Enhanced Senses, Reinforced Chitin 163
2 x Zoanthrope, Psychic Scream, Synapse 110



The raveners are a GREAT addition. Combined with the genes it opens up lots of tactical opportunities for feints, double threats and surprise attacks, as well as the glorious 'hahaha n00b' first turn charge with Nid shock troops... Just make sure they dont die, or if they do die, make sure they died soaking up the gunfire that would have oherwise killed your genes (It feels horrible to sacrifice them to draw fire, but they are fire magnets and sometimes it is a valid tactic if it ensures that your next turn is bloody and violent).

I think the carni is unnecesarily armed - keep the VC for stunning tanks etc (face it, this list will struggle against armour. Embrace it. Love it. Youre a tyranid) dropping the BS will free up points for a warp blast, another gene or two, or maybe a couple of devourers for the raveners. Give the carni some scything talons (or, if you reeeeeally want to be ballsy about it - and this would be glorious btw - give it a pair of crushing claws) and toxic miasma. Use the points to bolster your little guys! I would even consider dropping the Chitin and putting those points into your troops too - your carni aint gonna be the model winning the games so he's no good wading through enemies if your hormies, raveners and most importantly your genes are getting killed off...

All in all though i'd give it a 3.5 or a 4 as it stands now, depending on mood (PS I am a harsh bastard in comp marking, i rarely give 4's!!! So this is really good). Getting closer to a 5 I would need to see:
Some full strength units or at least a unit above 16 (I know its 1200 but come on!)
Tone down the carni and/or the tyrant somewhat
A unit of tyranid warriors (sorry)

Whatever you do, please dont make the list blander by dropping the challenging units like the raveners! Khysanths lists are good - easier to use, more grunt and still good comp - but your list is really well composed I think and it doesnt contain the usual tendency to lean on the monsters. It isnt gonna win all the time but it will provide you a challenge and if you paint it up good you could be contending best comp and best army awards depending on the tourney.
Learn to win deployment, love the refused flank, ignore the enemy's tanks and time your assaults right and this list has got lots of potential!


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waxsir
post Feb 20 2007, 10:36 PM
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OK armata_PDT_05.gif

QUOTE
I think this guy is probably the part of the list that needs the most work... With your two MCs, if your opponent has a list capable of killing them, they will hunt this guy first. You might be able to keep him in cover i admit, but will that steal cover from your little ones? Also, i think the major problem which has been highlighted is that he may not even be very good at his job as he stands... He will die in combat, but you'll find if you dont take uber 2 twin devourer flyrants this can usually be the case.
You have chosen not to take the usual flyrant maxed out for cc survivability and this will reflect well in your comp scores (plus its something which is refreshing to see here on wau!), but I think at the same time this guy will just get isolated and killed. He is bound to take at least one wound on the way into combat, and if there are powerfists or some such around, theres a fair chance he will die (which could also be catastrophic for your synapse). Giving him wings gives your opponent incentive not to split fire between MCs, which will either force you to deploy your MCs far apart (which may not suit you, esp. given your fragile-ish ball of synapse) or risk your flyrant early which leaves him attacking 'solo'.
Also, if he flies ahead and does manage to break an enemy unit with the scream, they will run further from your foot troops (potentially a bad thing) as well as leaving your flyrant in the open and not engaged (ie. he will be shot to pieces next turn and you gain very little).

I would tone him down. Looking at your list you should be leaning on your carni and more importantly your genes and hormies to be smashing through in hth. Losing the wings will let you deploy as a double threat of 2 MCs, and will force your opponent to choose, leaving them open to mistakes.


I知 still juggling some ideas on this one but a major prerequisite is the wing since I致e spent a lot of time working out a very heavy conversion and my goal is to get noticed for best MC prise. In the end I also want him to be completive. But I don稚 like the idea of the kitchen sink approach to make him effective (maybe in higher points and for a less sports based tournament). I think the wings should let me pick my own fights so I should be able to avoid the odd power fist. what options would you give him SmoCho ?



QUOTE
I think the carni is unnecesarily armed - keep the VC for stunning tanks etc (face it, this list will struggle against armour. Embrace it. Love it. Youre a tyranid) dropping the BS will free up points for a warp blast, another gene or two, or maybe a couple of devourers for the raveners. Give the carni some scything talons (or, if you reeeeeally want to be ballsy about it - and this would be glorious btw - give it a pair of crushing claws) and toxic miasma. Use the points to bolster your little guys! I would even consider dropping the Chitin and putting those points into your troops too - your carni aint gonna be the model winning the games so he's no good wading through enemies if your hormies, raveners and most importantly your genes are getting killed off


I like this big boy and the barbed strangler will play a big role in my plans with the cumulative effect on the scream there will be some great moments is try and pin my opponents troops. Although not reliable it has potential to change the battle.

Thanks for the help lads I have some ideas ill sleep on it and get out the calculator tomorrow

shnoogens

This post has been edited by waxsir: Feb 20 2007, 11:07 PM


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There's never been a true war that wasn't fought between two sets of people who were certain they were in the right. The really dangerous people believe they are doing whatever they are doing solely and only because it is without question the right thing to do. And that is what makes them dangerous. Neil Gaiman: American Gods.

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SmoCho
post Feb 21 2007, 11:08 AM
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Well if youre converting the wings and making it all perdy the I guess they stick around.

I dont have the codex handy, but something like this is what I would deck the tyrant out with:

Venom Cannon (But I would remove the BS off the carni for this though), bonesword/whip, psychic scream, scything talons, toxin sacs, flesh hooks, 1 Tyrant Guard.

Im pretty sure you could afford the Guard with the loss of the wings and the toxic miasma


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waxsir
post Feb 21 2007, 10:34 PM
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Ok I have been listening and it is all good and valid advice and the Nid army I have played with has some of the options you guys have talked about (they worked) and this is hard decision but I知 going to back my own play.

This is the revised list.. I知 still open to comments what you lads think but I think I will run with it. wink.gif


Tyranids 1199pts

HQ (159)
Tyrant, 2 x scything talons, Winged, Toxic Miasma, Toxin Sacs, Psychic Scream 159

Troops (582)
10 x Geanstealers, Scuttlers, toxin sacs, feeder tendrils 230
16 x Hormagaunts, toxin sacs, Adrenal Glands +1 I 208
16 x Termagaunts, fleshborer, toxin sacs 144

Elites

1 x Lictor (80)

Fast Attack
2 x Ravener, Scything & Rending Claws (80)

Heavy Support (298)
1 x Carnifex, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon, Enhanced Senses, Reinforced Chitin Extended carapace, (188)
2 x Zoanthrope, Psychic Scream, Synapse (110)


This post has been edited by waxsir: Feb 22 2007, 04:44 PM


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There's never been a true war that wasn't fought between two sets of people who were certain they were in the right. The really dangerous people believe they are doing whatever they are doing solely and only because it is without question the right thing to do. And that is what makes them dangerous. Neil Gaiman: American Gods.

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SmoCho
post Feb 22 2007, 10:55 AM
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Hey looks good

Yeah responses you get on the boards are only ideas, ultimately it's always better as a player to go with what you want and incorporate and adapt replies from wau

List looks challenging but definitlely fun and good comp. Don't be discouraged if you get smashed from time to time and if the list is a bitch to win with at first! As long as you win deployment and concentrate your troops you can score some tasty upsets. You don't have massive numbers (in fact you dont even have big numebrs) but you've got plenty of specialists in there, so remember to match each unit to its role and use them efficiently.

After playing some games with it I reckon you may find the lictor to be a bit of a drag (lone lictors are pretty hit and miss, and they usually miss) but he is easily replaced. Your troops choices are good and maxing the gene brood would still be really good for you i think. Termagants instead of spinegaunts - old skool tongue.gif

Very nice list
3.5/5 from a comp nazi like me smile.gif


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Khysanth
post Feb 22 2007, 11:39 AM
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The list is a lot more solid I think. Some positive changes.

It should do alright in a straight up fight, but may struggle in objectives if played wrong. Then again, I managed at Arc with 6 scoring units, so maybe you will be fine.

Also you should ask yourself, do you really need S6 termagaunts?
I'd drop that and give the tyrant a gun. A decent gun like dev's/venom/strangler on the tyrant would make him more versatile, but that's just me. Hate to see a 150+pt monster die before it gets to wound anything.



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Hive Fleet Iceberg modelling diary

QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 25 2007, 01:01 AM) *
Khysanth (Plays tough armys and has evolved IMHO as a great tryanid player in vic)
Thanks wax
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waxsir
post Feb 22 2007, 01:30 PM
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Yeah I like where it is going and the tyrant will get guns in 1500 pts, the termagaunts are S5. I think the lector may end on the chopping block for more raveners. I have thanked you guys in my modelling diary Waxanids 2008 for your help in making choices. I値l have my first test min up mid next week if you want to have a look.

Ta armata_PDT_34.gif


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There's never been a true war that wasn't fought between two sets of people who were certain they were in the right. The really dangerous people believe they are doing whatever they are doing solely and only because it is without question the right thing to do. And that is what makes them dangerous. Neil Gaiman: American Gods.

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Tamberlaine
post Feb 23 2007, 01:30 AM
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WAIT a minute!

I SO disagree with a lot of this advice!

As a nid player myself, it is chaffing to see this measely force of two biggies and a mass of fluff!

And what is this notion that the King should carry a gun! Sacriliege!

The Hive Tyrant is the supreme leader model! Wings are indeeed GRAND! But better than wings are TYRANT GUARD and a WARP BLAST! You fry with the brain and then rip to pieces in the same turn! throw away petty guns and indeed carry your talons and maximise the number of attacks!

A Carnifex is a (glorious but overly costly) waste of breath! Throw that away and take a second HQ of, what! ANOTHER HIVE TYRANT OF COURSE. King and Queen! Boost them both to hell, give them full equipment for hand to hand plus warp blast and let the two majesties and their six guard rip all before them. Surround them with a large number of insignificant models for mere WITNESSING the glory, and if you really want to appease the cry babies who want a "fair" list... throw in three Biovores for "covering fire!".... hehehehehe! Bioveres rip up big armies of IG, Orcs, other Nids, etc......

Nids have a great list why dilute it with semi tough stuffing like warriors and raveners or genestealers! Carnivores are slow and thick! give your focus to two hive tyrants!!!!!!!

Oh, the guys who wrote the rules don't like that.....

There is a residual problem with the devotees of gamesworkshop caught between what the rules allow, and what "social approval" allows. Well never mind the addended provisos. Read the Codex again. see That the Hive Tyrant is INDEED WORTHY. Take two with maxed out tyrant guards to give them the time they need to destroy ALL!

All else is secondary!

Tamberlaine the Great!
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SmoCho
post Feb 23 2007, 02:08 PM
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'Secondary' or not, wax's list is well themed and challenging. This also translates to 'fun' and 'interesting', which is in the spirit of the game. The list as it stands is actually reasonably intricate in comp and will require skill (or the gradual building up of skill!) to use, esp. at 1200 pts.

Also the notion that your list should be fun for an opponent to face is often overlooked with some tyranid armies.

This post has been edited by SmoCho: Feb 23 2007, 02:13 PM


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Carnex
post Feb 24 2007, 02:17 AM
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QUOTE(SmoCho @ Feb 23 2007, 02:08 PM) *
Also the notion that your list should be fun for an opponent to face is often overlooked with some tyranid armies.


I disagree with this. I feel that the people on this site have gotten alot of players to think about what they are taking as opposed to KILL ALL ELSE.


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QUOTE(radle @ Dec 13 2007, 02:04 PM) *
Remember, Mathhammer doesn't annoy people, people annoy people.

Mathhammer is just a tool, like some people are tools.


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Khysanth
post Feb 24 2007, 08:39 AM
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QUOTE(Tamberlaine @ Feb 23 2007, 02:30 AM) *

WAIT a minute!

I SO disagree with a lot of this advice!

As a nid player myself, it is chaffing to see this measely force of two biggies and a mass of fluff!

And what is this notion that the King should carry a gun! Sacriliege!
Disagree as you like, but I think I know what I am talking about. I have been playing nids since the new dex came out, and have had a lot of success in the tournaments I have enterred, with 10 wins, 4 draws, and only 2 losses total!

QUOTE(Tamberlaine @ Feb 23 2007, 02:30 AM) *
The Hive Tyrant is the supreme leader model! Wings are indeeed GRAND! But better than wings are TYRANT GUARD and a WARP BLAST! You fry with the brain and then rip to pieces in the same turn! throw away petty guns and indeed carry your talons and maximise the number of attacks!
What an absolute joke!! Why would you give a Hive Tyrant, who has 3 base attacks, Warp Blast, when you can make use of the awesome 'assault' type guns nids have to offer? If you take WB, you cannot take +BS, so he hits 50% of the time with 1 shot only, that has 18-24" range, that can be nullified if against the wrong opponent. If you want WB, give it to a Zoanthrope, who would make use of such a power, and cost half as much for the model. The Zo would still hit 50% of the time, but if you gave your tyrant a Venom Cannon, you would have 3 shots hitting on 3's (with +BS), at S8 (with Toxins). Never a chance to be nullified, and has 2 more shots to boot!

And if its a blast template you want, the barbed stranglers large blast with pinning is a much more viable option, since it can potentially hit a crap load more models, and hit more often since you can take enhanced senses.

QUOTE(Tamberlaine @ Feb 23 2007, 02:30 AM) *
A Carnifex is a (glorious but overly costly) waste of breath! Throw that away and take a second HQ of, what! ANOTHER HIVE TYRANT OF COURSE. King and Queen! Boost them both to hell, give them full equipment for hand to hand plus warp blast and let the two majesties and their six guard rip all before them. Surround them with a large number of insignificant models for mere WITNESSING the glory, and if you really want to appease the cry babies who want a "fair" list... throw in three Biovores for "covering fire!".... hehehehehe! Bioveres rip up big armies of IG, Orcs, other Nids, etc......
Carnifex's have their uses, and as far as mobile firing bases go, you cannot beat the Carnifex in a Nid list. Nothing else can have a S10 36" range x2 shots, or a S8 large blast template! I am offering advice to make his list more effective, where as I would say you are the one trying to make his list less effective. Biovores are effective enough, but once again, they are only S3, compared to a mighty S10 Carnifex.

This post has been edited by Khysanth: Feb 24 2007, 08:48 AM


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Hive Fleet Iceberg modelling diary

QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 25 2007, 01:01 AM) *
Khysanth (Plays tough armys and has evolved IMHO as a great tryanid player in vic)
Thanks wax
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waxsir
post Feb 25 2007, 12:01 AM
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GG guys, I致e got two good army痴 I知 quite effective with and I don稚 think they are cheesy if I stuff up as a general its over! I知 making this army for the same reason I have to think! When I play it well I think this army will perform.

Taking two HT with guard, Power game, you think it is fine, but talk about a no brainer! I can稚 think of a more S*&# list it play and enjoy with mates and a tournaments.

Khysanth (Plays tough armys and has evolved IMHO as a great tryanid player in vic) & Smocho I don稚 know, but his advice is valid and well thought out. I wish Casio had a look at my list because I think he is up there with the best players to play!

Hindsight I can稚 wait to play my mate with a demon price with the kitchen sink and blood thirster at 1200pts! LOL armata_PDT_37.gif

I致e been drinking since midday I think that makes sense!

This post has been edited by waxsir: Feb 25 2007, 12:03 AM


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There's never been a true war that wasn't fought between two sets of people who were certain they were in the right. The really dangerous people believe they are doing whatever they are doing solely and only because it is without question the right thing to do. And that is what makes them dangerous. Neil Gaiman: American Gods.

My fine art practice @ conoroshea.com
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Khysanth
post Feb 25 2007, 09:59 AM
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QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 25 2007, 01:01 AM) *
Khysanth (Plays tough armys and has evolved IMHO as a great tryanid player in vic)
Thanks Wax, I appreciate it.


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Hive Fleet Iceberg modelling diary

QUOTE(waxsir @ Feb 25 2007, 01:01 AM) *
Khysanth (Plays tough armys and has evolved IMHO as a great tryanid player in vic)
Thanks wax
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