Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V  1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> How did you find playing with/against IA?
Chevynova
post Oct 15 2012, 09:31 AM
Post #1


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 3,073
Joined: 17-June 08
Member No.: 5,626



More than usual being used on the weekend, so throw your thoughts up and help TO's make decisions about allowing them in.

I scored the double Lucious, double Deathstorm for one of my games.

Lucious needs banning as far as I'm concerned. It's way too powerful for what it costs and there's very little most lists can do to deal with it (grey knights and spamming high strength interceptor are the exceptions). This edition actively discourages assaulting from reserve and the only other stuff that does has a potential downside (mishaps) and a huge cost associated with it.

Deathstorms on the other hand I don't think are too bad (they're certainly good). Opponents can mitigate them quite a bit with good deployment choices or having good saves. The only problem is the fidlliness of working out their shooting. I think it took us about 15-20 mins just to resolve the shooting from those two units when they landed.

What about the rest of it - Mortis Contemptors, Storm Eagles etc.


--------------------
Hello, my name is Glenn Blair.


Ashamedly having Force Z results count towards my ranking since 2013
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Maraxus
post Oct 15 2012, 10:25 AM
Post #2


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 461
Joined: 19-November 04
From: Brisbane
Member No.: 28



Only came across the conversion beamer predator. Didn't have a problem with it myself.

Have played vs Stormeagle before. It is big, fairly, nasty, but nothing a vendetta can't fix.


--------------------
Playing and building Crimson Fists.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Onehandedorgy
post Oct 15 2012, 04:53 PM
Post #3


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 1,417
Joined: 15-April 10
Member No.: 9,315



QUOTE(Chevynova @ Oct 15 2012, 09:31 AM) *

More than usual being used on the weekend, so throw your thoughts up and help TO's make decisions about allowing them in.

I scored the double Lucious, double Deathstorm for one of my games.

Lucious needs banning as far as I'm concerned. It's way too powerful for what it costs and there's very little most lists can do to deal with it (grey knights and spamming high strength interceptor are the exceptions). This edition actively discourages assaulting from reserve and the only other stuff that does has a potential downside (mishaps) and a huge cost associated with it.

Deathstorms on the other hand I don't think are too bad (they're certainly good). Opponents can mitigate them quite a bit with good deployment choices or having good saves. The only problem is the fidlliness of working out their shooting. I think it took us about 15-20 mins just to resolve the shooting from those two units when they landed.

What about the rest of it - Mortis Contemptors, Storm Eagles etc.



I've always voiced my opinion that most of the IA stuff is really not balanced well.(especially with the change to the new edition) My biggest problem is that forgeworld although part of games workshop isn't part of the design team so of course they are going to say most of their units can be used in average games of 40k so they can sell you their product. But the balances in the forgeword books aren't considered when building armies. They have a tendency to slap any points limit and just go with it.(most of it very undercosted)

Now not all of it is like that but like everything else sometimes all it takes is a few bad eggs to ruin the bunch.



--------------------
tintaman on player behaviour.....
QUOTE

This thread herps ALL the derps.


Best comment of 2013
QUOTE(Roundtooit @ Nov 19 2013, 03:25 PM) *

Im in.......but you knew that allready

QUOTE(NICS @ Nov 19 2013, 03:32 PM) *

I bet you say that to all the the girls.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
sladie
post Oct 15 2012, 05:50 PM
Post #4


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 172
Joined: 3-May 10
Member No.: 9,405



The Storm Eagle itself is very appropriately costed. Yes, you can run a loyal barebones version for 225pts but to get the TL Lascannons added suddenly you're at 285pts. Yes you can transport 20 infantry with it but I think that's offset by the premium paid in comparison covers that, in my opinion.

Each unit really does need to be considered of it's own merits in my opinion. Most TO's should have a fairly good idea of what Forgeworld units do what, and leave it to the individual TO to make the decision, in much the way fortifications are mostly being limited to Defense Lines and Bastions. I'd much prefer that blanket 'yes/no' rulings.


--------------------
It puts the lotion on the skin or else it gets the hose again..
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
trigger happy
post Oct 15 2012, 08:05 PM
Post #5


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 4,352
Joined: 4-September 07
From: brisbane
Member No.: 4,458



Storm eagle is yet another example of a poorly thought out and under costed unit. Most imperial armour units are fun but not balanced. Especially when you make comparisons to codex units.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Eltnot
post Oct 15 2012, 11:56 PM
Post #6


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 1,849
Joined: 19-April 08
From: North Brisbane, QLD
Member No.: 5,390



In regards to IA units at events like these, I think a limitation of 2 IA units maximum per army (or something similar). This keeps games fast as opponents don't have to suddenly read ten pages of rules before the game to familiarise themselves and helps to reduce some of the balance issues.

Example:
You can field two Storm Eagles, or one Storm Eagle and one Contemptor Dread, but not two Contemptor Dreads and one Storm Eagle.

I had no problems with the one IA unit that I faced over the course of the weekend.


--------------------
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Maraxus
post Oct 16 2012, 06:11 AM
Post #7


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 461
Joined: 19-November 04
From: Brisbane
Member No.: 28



Maybe the best solution would be limiting forgeworld to a single unit?


--------------------
Playing and building Crimson Fists.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
fofjunior
post Oct 16 2012, 06:32 AM
Post #8


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 1,538
Joined: 21-May 10
From: Brisbane, Queensland
Member No.: 9,506



With regards to IA - I think it depends on what you take.

For example, I took 3 units of IA for my BT's:

Pred destructor - just a reduction in points down to 85pts for 1 x AC with las sponsons;

Pred executioner with heavy conversion beamer - 140 pts but honestly this thing didn't do much for most of the tournie. It still has only 3 hull points and if it scatters or someone is sitting behind an aegis with 2+ cover well I think you get the point...

Rhino - just dropped down to 35 pts.

So for me the points drop on two units was a big help in an outdated dex but otherwise didn't overly effect my games. The big blast template drew a lot attention but it certainly wasn't game breaking.

It didn't overly come with any major rule explanations - just conversion beamer rules 5" template.

So for me I enjoyed being able to bring some IA models and I think most TO's, especially with panel comp will be able to allow the balanced units and chuck out the few bad eggs.


--------------------
Quote of wisdom - Semper Fidelis

40K goals for 2017 - play socially more often, complete armies on parade project with son.

Life goals - Lose 15kgs, improve health, spend more quality time with my wife, children and grandchildren. Catch up with friends.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
A wiseman
post Oct 16 2012, 09:50 AM
Post #9


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 723
Joined: 14-August 10
From: Brisbane
Member No.: 9,940



QUOTE(Chevynova @ Oct 15 2012, 09:31 AM) *

More than usual being used on the weekend, so throw your thoughts up and help TO's make decisions about allowing them in.

I scored the double Lucious, double Deathstorm for one of my games.

Lucious needs banning as far as I'm concerned. It's way too powerful for what it costs and there's very little most lists can do to deal with it (grey knights and spamming high strength interceptor are the exceptions). This edition actively discourages assaulting from reserve and the only other stuff that does has a potential downside (mishaps) and a huge cost associated with it.

Deathstorms on the other hand I don't think are too bad (they're certainly good). Opponents can mitigate them quite a bit with good deployment choices or having good saves. The only problem is the fidlliness of working out their shooting. I think it took us about 15-20 mins just to resolve the shooting from those two units when they landed.

What about the rest of it - Mortis Contemptors, Storm Eagles etc.


Lucius Pods are way to powerful, probably the most broken forge world unit.

Morris Contemptors were amazing, the fact that for 220 points you get bs 5, 2 tl las and a cyclone, and potentially sky fire and interceptor makes them well worth it.

The storm eagle at 310 and not realizing how important extra armor is for it was big chunk of points, in an army where most of it was big chunks of points. Against high armor saves it was alright able to punch through, though against light armor saves it was able to make a mess of units easily with its vengeance launcher. It's big drawback though is it really needs to spend at least one turn in hover mode, to drop troops off.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
SneakyDan
post Oct 16 2012, 11:29 AM
Post #10


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 1,479
Joined: 17-May 10
Member No.: 9,480



Most of what IA allows is pretty lolsy- I think the only unit that universally is undercosted is the Lucius. There is a reason assaulting on deepstrike is so limited in this game, it should stay that way.

Played vs an eagle, it was frustrating, but not actually good. The fact that an immob result makes them death traps has a lot to do with balance, as well as the gunship options being so expensive.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
glynaynsley
post Oct 16 2012, 04:36 PM
Post #11


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 1,826
Joined: 13-March 07
Member No.: 3,895



I'm really hoping allowing IA becomes a trend.

People complain its overpowered but so are necrons and GK's before them, I'm pretty sure the helldrake is going to be meta changing as well. IA allows ALL armies to take some really cool stuff, just like allies.

It says on the entries too that they are 40k approved, that means that they have gone through the design phase for the game, we all play this game and I dont think anyone can say that everything is balanced.

If IA is in I really wanna do a tau army. So let it in. For me. Because I'm really important. And awesome. And good looking.


--------------------
I am amazing, la la la
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
fester
post Oct 16 2012, 04:46 PM
Post #12


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 1,271
Joined: 21-August 07
Member No.: 4,406



For me it's the cost of the IA book that stops me running the few models I own, that and they are crap on-the-table smile.gif
Awesome models but.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Onehandedorgy
post Oct 16 2012, 05:14 PM
Post #13


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 1,417
Joined: 15-April 10
Member No.: 9,315



QUOTE(glynaynsley @ Oct 16 2012, 04:36 PM) *

If IA is in I really wanna do a tau army. So let it in. For me. Because I'm really important. And awesome. And good looking.


Nothing in that sentence is true.... biggrin.gif


--------------------
tintaman on player behaviour.....
QUOTE

This thread herps ALL the derps.


Best comment of 2013
QUOTE(Roundtooit @ Nov 19 2013, 03:25 PM) *

Im in.......but you knew that allready

QUOTE(NICS @ Nov 19 2013, 03:32 PM) *

I bet you say that to all the the girls.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
westwood
post Oct 16 2012, 05:19 PM
Post #14


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 1,238
Joined: 15-August 10
From: Brisanyland
Member No.: 9,945



Dealing with IA - no dramas

Necrons - no chance.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
trigger happy
post Oct 16 2012, 06:13 PM
Post #15


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 4,352
Joined: 4-September 07
From: brisbane
Member No.: 4,458



Most of the IA stuff was at a minimum or theme/cool driven. The only exception was the lucius drop pod army and even then it wasn't a points efficient list.

Build a list with IA and the intention of breaking the game and the crying will begin, its just pure luck that no one done here and the one person that tried, failed.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
AlphaHobbies
post Oct 16 2012, 06:43 PM
Post #16


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 1,649
Joined: 18-June 09
From: www.alphahobbies.com.au/
Member No.: 7,678



QUOTE(fester @ Oct 16 2012, 04:46 PM) *

For me it's the cost of the IA book......

Chaos codex much armata_PDT_11.gif


--------------------
Force Z Jan-17, May-2, Aug-3, Oct-10
The Gauntlett Feb 7/8, May 30/31, Aug 29-30, Nov 14-15
Titans of War Mar 28/29, Sep-19/20
Masters/Scrubcon Nov 28

Australian Warhammer 40k Rankings
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
sheep
post Oct 16 2012, 09:04 PM
Post #17


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 995
Joined: 19-November 04
Member No.: 153



I would have dramas playing against any IA stuff, it's just another dimension adding component to the game, plus it looks cool which always wins in my book!

This post has been edited by sheep: Oct 16 2012, 09:08 PM


--------------------
"Oh! My wee-wee seems to have been stricken with rigor mortis"
- Stewy (Family Guy)

Forlorn hope, My blog.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
horus
post Oct 16 2012, 09:43 PM
Post #18


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 1,676
Joined: 14-August 06
From: Rockvegas
Member No.: 3,082



QUOTE(Onehandedorgy @ Oct 16 2012, 05:14 PM) *

Nothing in that is true.... 8=======D O: I love you Dave, bang me like a Salvation Army drum.


Fixed


--------------------
King of the North... leader of free men.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Sgt Ti'tan
post Oct 16 2012, 10:27 PM
Post #19


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 134
Joined: 13-June 12
From: Ipswich
Member No.: 13,119



Well as for the posed question IA or not, As a TO for a few small events that I do run I say yes, ..... But there are some boundaries that need to be set. I myself make all IA units unique, so no spamming, I also make a point that anyone running IA has the rules and tells there opponent about them pre game. armata_PDT_36.gif

That said Morris Contempters and Lucis drop pods are harsh but as in all my rules pack TO reserves the right to ask for a resubmit.

This post has been edited by Sgt Ti'tan: Oct 16 2012, 10:30 PM


--------------------
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Blackhearts Reaver
post Oct 17 2012, 04:10 AM
Post #20


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 10,997
Joined: 23-November 04
From: Laidley, QLD
Member No.: 446



QUOTE
I scored the double Lucious, double Deathstorm for one of my games.

Lucious needs banning as far as I'm concerned. It's way too powerful for what it costs and there's very little most lists can do to deal with it (grey knights and spamming high strength interceptor are the exceptions). This edition actively discourages assaulting from reserve and the only other stuff that does has a potential downside (mishaps) and a huge cost associated with it.

Deathstorms on the other hand I don't think are too bad (they're certainly good). Opponents can mitigate them quite a bit with good deployment choices or having good saves. The only problem is the fidlliness of working out their shooting. I think it took us about 15-20 mins just to resolve the shooting from those two units when they landed.

What about the rest of it - Mortis Contemptors, Storm Eagles etc

+1

The owner of the drop list said in no uncertain terms...... " Write it in your Blog....."

So here it is.....

I agree with Chevy on the above pts.

I have played against Mortis and Storm eagles. Both are undercosted for what they do. It is all fine and well to say people will be restrained or fluffy. They never are... the Storm eagle is stuffed with 19 berzerkers and Kharn (yes there is a CSM version...the contemptor is never just 1).

The other thing I don't like is all the secrecy about the rules. About 4 out of the last 6 times I have played against IA stuff I don't have a bought book for, the owner has sprung "special rules" only when it was benificial to them, as a "trap". Unsportsman like but hey thems the breaks....

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Oct 17 2012, 04:16 AM


--------------------
Run local tourneys, Make terrain. 75,000+ pts...Play 1-3 games a week...(40K,BFG,BB,FoW).
Good Trader +149 .....QLD Masters: 1st/14(Tau), 1st/12(Daemons), 4th/15(Daemons), 1st/16(Orks), 2nd/15? (IG), 6th/22(Eldar).
AUS ranking=briefly No.1. :) ATC2011=QLD team ChampionsATC2012=QLD 5th
Retired from Competitive play sometime early? 2013

Try to be positive and help... not negative and tear things down.

"I passionately believe that's it's not just what you say that counts, it's also how you say it - that the success of your argument critically depends on your manner of presenting it." Alain de Botton
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th February 2020 - 06:33 PM