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> 8th Edition 40k..., I think I hate this game.
Maxo_Q
post Jul 5 2018, 11:56 AM
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I tried, I really did.

The first read of the rules made it seem intriguing, but after playing it for a bit and watching lots of battles, reading through codecies and FAQ's.

I think this game is utter garbage. Im starting to think the people who really love it are mentally damaged.

Its tedious, formulaic and dull.

Buckets of dice... just buckets and buckets of them.

Standing there watching an opponent roll 58 dice looking for 3's and re-rolling misses is just dull. Turning around and charging him to roll my 50 dice looking for 3's to hit with +1's to hit and rerolls on ones is just dull and uninspiring.

I keep looking for tactics that don't involve stacking dice in your favourable phase, things like a shooting precision army, or a points denial army, or an army that moves around and I just don't seem to find anything viable beyond "I do combat well, buckets of dice in that phase and reroll bubbles" or "I do shooting well so buckets of dice and reroll buffs in that phase"

I didn't play 7th, so I don't know how bad it was for people to think that this is a better game.

I was excited when I saw movement characteristics were coming back, but then I saw that everyone still basically moves 6 but some things can move 7 or 8.

Vehicles with wounds makes the game flow faster, doesn't make vehicles very interesting.

Line of sight and terrain are pretty worthless now.

It just feels like an abstract dice system attached to some pretty trinkets and card game (which feels more like snap than anything else)

The game is designed to get outcomes regardless of logic, and that doesn't work for me. Overwatch is ludicrous, pile in a consolidation are excessive.

The removal of the old strength vs toughness system has ruined any individuality weapons had, made vehicles vulnerable to stupid things and sucked so much flavour out of the game.

The switch from 7 - WS and BS to flat dice targets has ruined the flavour of having elite units face elite units vs weak units facing elite units.

5th ed and 2nd ed are far superior versions than this game.

Ordinarily with a game I don't enjoy Id be like "eh ill come back next edition." This edition makes me not even want to buy 40k models anymore.

When AoS replaced 8th Fantasy I felt like "eh this is not my game, ill keep playing 8th" with this edition I feel like "Maybe Im just done with 40k as a thing in my life."

As someone who owns 14 40k armies, that is a very weird feeling.




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Orange-Bell
post Jul 5 2018, 01:18 PM
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I hear you. I played about 6 games, and only one of them was fun. The rest were an exercise in frustration and dice rolling.

Thing is I really like Age of Sigmar. The game systems are similar but the slight decrease of complexity of AoS works better.

I agree that 5th was the best. People have accused me of rose coloured glasses, but I've played 2-8, and 5 I my favourite of all of them.

Just want to find some people to keep playing that with.
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gerbil
post Jul 5 2018, 01:23 PM
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I know how you feel.

With the removal of vehicles (facing and arcs) and terrain\LOS I'm struggling to find any form of tactics in the new version that are not done in the model buying and list building stage.

I love the models but found gameplay very same-same.


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Krefey
post Jul 5 2018, 01:35 PM
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I enjoy the game when I get a chance to play it. More streamlined. There's more to tactics than positioning a unit to get side or rear armour shots on a unit.

Movement values are quite varied in the new edition when you look across the various factions.

Each faction plays more like I feel they would based on the background / fluff in 8th ed.


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Blackhearts Reaver
post Jul 5 2018, 11:27 PM
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If you dont have good terrain with more LOS blocking then games can become dice fests. Play with more terrain. I use 25-35% of the table area and of that >> half need to be LoS blocking. Some level1 (50mm) for troops some level 2 (75-90mm) for rhino's etc, and a few level 3(200-240mm) for Big stuff.). The other half is split between Area/ruins and low stuff like craters / low (20mm) walls.

Play missions with objectives and start with smaller games. 1200-1500. At 2000 the game becomes very brutal very quickly. The game has alot of tactics. Similar to previous editions but different. Most of them involve vehicles or monsters as targets and chaff units for screening. You will find however the days of a game bogging down into 5 turn scrumss or 2 SaFH hunkering down and shooting at each other are gone. Games are resolved by T3-4 so the trade offs in Turn 2-3 are extremely important.
Understanding range (of mid shooting/rapidfire/assault weapons and the h2h charge distances) is more important than cover or LoS. Some games will flip on a failed charge or a Rapidfire bomb that only gets 25% of the unit in rapidfire....

Assault lists are very possible but if you go that way you have to go pretty full on to make it work. Run a few transports to block LoS as well as transport a few of your more delicate /glass canon units.

The variety of lists that run OK is quite amazing. The variety is much more than the previous 3 editions. The power creep is starting to come back in however with maximising Command Pts and bubble aura's is the order of the day. There are ways to nullify the latter.Most people don't run 4 huge Characters. they run 1-2 huge character and 2 or 3 buff characters (in 2000+). Snipers and deep strike etc can help kill off Aura's by turn 2-3.

If you want to have simple games find a group that is happy with a few more restrictions and play games with 1 force Org (eg battalion) and use things like the Rule of 3 (or even make it the Rule of 2) etc


If you are the type of gamer who hates to see your guys die, 8th ed is probably not for you. If you are a gamer who doesn't mind sacrificing your Queen to win the chess game it probably is.......

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Jul 5 2018, 11:42 PM


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General_Hospital
post Jul 12 2018, 08:58 PM
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Yeah I haven’t played much since 6th, not a fan of over simplification, also just tired of replacing all the fifty billion extra books you need to keep up with things


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TheTrans
post Jul 24 2018, 03:20 PM
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After playing 5 great games at preferred enemy, it really is just a dice rolling sesh.

I get people say 'there is more tactics' ... but honestly where? The game is just a matter of list building the most amount of shots, while making sure you have a reroll aura somewhere.

All weapon ranges mean there is turn 1 movement..and unless you want to assault or get more shots in (woo more dice) it just doesn't happen.

Terrain rules are stupid to the point of may as well play on bare tables with a few boxes on them. You can try and blame peoples collections all you want but GW balls up big there, no excuse really.

I would love to see a 'tactics' game out of it...but honestly I care not for how good your tactical game is.. you'll still lose to a dice-bucket with rerolls list...

Also can't stand the 2+ units that get easy access to reroll 1's to hit... madness..

Love 40k, love the setting, (most of the) fluff, (most of the) models... but as a rule set it is pretty derp levels of simple...

Half all weapon ranges/movemtn etc or double the size of the boards and we may get somewhere...
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iz.hans.iz.good
post Sep 7 2018, 11:33 AM
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QUOTE(Maxo_Q @ Jul 5 2018, 11:56 AM) *

I tried, I really did.

The first read of the rules made it seem intriguing, but after playing it for a bit and watching lots of battles, reading through codecies and FAQ's.

I think this game is utter garbage. Im starting to think the people who really love it are mentally damaged.

Its tedious, formulaic and dull.

Buckets of dice... just buckets and buckets of them.

Standing there watching an opponent roll 58 dice looking for 3's and re-rolling misses is just dull. Turning around and charging him to roll my 50 dice looking for 3's to hit with +1's to hit and rerolls on ones is just dull and uninspiring.

I keep looking for tactics that don't involve stacking dice in your favourable phase, things like a shooting precision army, or a points denial army, or an army that moves around and I just don't seem to find anything viable beyond "I do combat well, buckets of dice in that phase and reroll bubbles" or "I do shooting well so buckets of dice and reroll buffs in that phase"

I didn't play 7th, so I don't know how bad it was for people to think that this is a better game.

I was excited when I saw movement characteristics were coming back, but then I saw that everyone still basically moves 6 but some things can move 7 or 8.

Vehicles with wounds makes the game flow faster, doesn't make vehicles very interesting.

Line of sight and terrain are pretty worthless now.

It just feels like an abstract dice system attached to some pretty trinkets and card game (which feels more like snap than anything else)

The game is designed to get outcomes regardless of logic, and that doesn't work for me. Overwatch is ludicrous, pile in a consolidation are excessive.

The removal of the old strength vs toughness system has ruined any individuality weapons had, made vehicles vulnerable to stupid things and sucked so much flavour out of the game.

The switch from 7 - WS and BS to flat dice targets has ruined the flavour of having elite units face elite units vs weak units facing elite units.

5th ed and 2nd ed are far superior versions than this game.

Ordinarily with a game I don't enjoy Id be like "eh ill come back next edition." This edition makes me not even want to buy 40k models anymore.

When AoS replaced 8th Fantasy I felt like "eh this is not my game, ill keep playing 8th" with this edition I feel like "Maybe Im just done with 40k as a thing in my life."

As someone who owns 14 40k armies, that is a very weird feeling.

i hear you too friend, i really enjoy the model aspect of the game more these days, initially i enjoyed 8th,but im feeling like the game plays just like 7th edition all over again! everything felt balanced for a while there but now it just feels like grinding.

fortunately there are other augarations of the system now like killteams, necro, bb, where models can be used to play the game so its not a complete waste of time...
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iz.hans.iz.good
post Sep 7 2018, 11:41 AM
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tho i might also add - i really miss when this game was based on strategy rather than roll-playing

40k was for a long time a game i could easily go to to just play with a loose strategy that could somewhat function without too much bad stuff happening that it could get completely wrecked early on, so is some what a no brainer.

but fantasy was always my go to for playing strategically with the game being more about deployment and measurement than rolling dice.

you could play a game of fantasy and have poor dice rolls and still win games if your strategy functioned well.

unfortunately aos is just about who can roll the highest scores on your dice rolls, less about anything else, tho i collect it cos i really enjoy the hobby - not so much the game.

40k has been ok for a while but its also just become about solely rolling dice!
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BearPowers
post Sep 7 2018, 12:17 PM
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I get the feeling that they've gone too far away from the strategic aspect of 40k.

I loathed the strategic placing of models in 7th edition. Games dragged on, people spent ages perfecting units that had the best balance of invulnerable and armour saves to absorb damage from the shooting phase. Models had to be perfectly placed etc. I know that Fantasy was somewhat similar, but I found the placing of units never took as long as perfectly arranging your skirmished 40k army.

However, 8th is very 'throw dice heaps' to sort everything out. It feels like a 9th edition may help balance things out down the line.
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Blackhearts Reaver
post Sep 7 2018, 10:55 PM
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I think the main thing that is not completely right with t\he game is the terrian rules. they just dont do enough to mitigate the increase in firepower.


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Run local tourneys, Make terrain. 75,000+ pts...Play 1-3 games a week...(40K,BFG,BB,FoW).
Good Trader +149 .....QLD Masters: 1st/14(Tau), 1st/12(Daemons), 4th/15(Daemons), 1st/16(Orks), 2nd/15? (IG), 6th/22(Eldar).
AUS ranking=briefly No.1. :) ATC2011=QLD team ChampionsATC2012=QLD 5th
Retired from Competitive play sometime early? 2013

Try to be positive and help... not negative and tear things down.

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Norto
post Sep 8 2018, 12:34 PM
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Just play epic armageddon it's so much better biggrin.gif all the cool kids are doing it.
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Occulto
post Sep 9 2018, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE(Norto @ Sep 8 2018, 12:04 PM) *

Just play epic armageddon it's so much better biggrin.gif all the cool kids are doing it.


+1


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Kingnova3000
post Oct 8 2018, 11:56 AM
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Yeah I agree with OP.

Game has zero depth or substance these days.

Layer re-roll bubbles and try and roll more dice then your opponent. Mind numbing tedium.


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eaglesixfive
post Oct 27 2018, 09:45 PM
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Max Q

40k is bubblegum wargaming. It's OK sometimes but you wouldn't want to have it everyday.
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LimitedSlip
post Nov 10 2018, 07:57 PM
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LOL, W40k is a beer and pretzels game, always has been and always will be. If you want sothing that has a little strategic depth, play warmachine.

W40k is all about buckets of dice.
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Kingnova3000
post Nov 11 2018, 09:54 AM
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QUOTE(LimitedSlip @ Nov 10 2018, 07:57 PM) *

LOL, W40k is a beer and pretzels game, always has been and always will be. If you want sothing that has a little strategic depth, play warmachine.

W40k is all about buckets of dice.


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