Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> ADLG Battle Report: Carthaginians vs Han Chinese, 22-Jul-2018
MarkC
post Jul 25 2018, 08:41 AM
Post #1


Member
Group Icon

Group: Support Veteran
Posts: 4,021
Joined: 29-July 05
From: Central Coast, NSW
Member No.: 1,849



Carthaginians vs Han Chinese

Game 1

This was my first proper game of ADLG (I had played one previous "training" game). Using all the models that I have painted I could field a 100 pts list. It is not completely legal as it exceeds the maximums at 100 pts for Spearmen and Heavy Cavalry, but my opponent indulged me.

IPB Image
The Carthaginian list.

IPB Image
* EDIT: The corrected Han Chinese list

Carthaginians won initiative and chose to attack. I chose Plains. The resulting terrain didn't hamper either sides deployment and left a large open area in the middle of the battlefield.

The Chinese deployed first with their chariot and heavy cavalry aligned to the left flank of their foot troops. The light cavalry were further forward as a group of 3.

I aligned my battle line to his, with light infantry in front to protect my Spearmen. I deployed two units of elite Heavy Cavalry and two units of Light Cavalry as a group which I felt would be able to deal with his two units of Medium Cavalry and three of Light Cavalry. I wasn't familiar with chariots, so I didn't worry about it. I deployed a single unit of Light Cavalry on my left flank intending to take it around the Chinese right flank.

My battle plan was to move ahead at maximum speed and get into combat as quickly as possible, just to see the combat mechanics in action. This also had the advantage of minimising the number of turns he could shoot at me.

My cavalry group charged his light horse, which evaded. My charge then continued on to his his medium cavalry. My light infantry moved full speed ahead so as to get my slingers in range of his main battle line. The light troops came worse off in the exchange of fire with the crossbows. My light horse on the left flank got around to the flank of the Chinese battle line.

IPB Image

The Chinese right most unit turned to face the light horse, and the rest of his foot advanced to face my troops. Another round of shooting ensured. His light horse charged mine, which evaded. The Chinese light horse had charged at an angle to avoid my heavy cavalry.

In my turn the light infantry fell back and the spearmen charged through the Chinese foot. My right most heavy cavalry unit had dispatched its opponent in the previous turn so was able to turn 90 degrees and charge the Chinese light horse in the flank. My light cavalry group split with one unit going to support each combat. On the left flank my light horse was ZOC so I decided to charge in rather than just being shot at.

IPB Image

After a turn of rolling high it was looking good for the main battle, with one Chinese unit dispatched and no Spearmen having taken hits. I had lost the light horse, and their opponents were trying to plug the hole in the Chines battle line but didn't have enough movement. My light infantry had also moved up to support the spearmen.

IPB Image

The cavalry battles had seen me lose one heavy cavalry and one light cavalry, whilst the Chinse had lost two medium cavalry and one light cavalry.

IPB Image

After two turns of rolling high it looked like the Chinese were about to break. I only needed to take out one more unit. I then had two turns of rolling low (law of averages in operation) and both forces broke in the same turn.


Game 2

We then had a second game when I won initiative and chose to attack in a Forest setting. There were three forests, a lake and a marsh, which completely stuffed up my deployment zone. I put the light troops in a forest on the left flank (where they ended up achieving nothing) and separated my cavalry and infantry into two separate groups separated by terrain.

We had a cavalry battle in front of my battle line. The spearmen got involved but I still lost more units than the Chinese and my battle line was disrupted, whilst the Chinese battle line was still advancing intact. With time running out I conceded the game.


Conclusions

The Chinese main battle line was mainly units that were 1/2 Heavy Swordsmen 1/2 Crossbowmen. The rule for mixed units like this is that they fight one level lower in melee (ie ordinary units fight as mediocre), though they do have supporting fire in the first turn. Bottom line is that the Chinese units were more expensive than my Spearmen, but worse in melee.

So it turns out that advancing as quickly as possible to get into combat with them was the right thing to do. This also reduced the amount of time that they had to shoot at me, because with a range of 4 UD I couldn't afford to hang about. Using my light infantry as a skirmish line meant that my battle line arrived without being disrupted by shooting.

It was suggested that I had too many light troops to be useful. I made the javelin LI elite to use up the points, but the only thing they achieved was soaking up shooting. It may be that I could have achieved the same effect with less units of ordinary LI. I will look at replacing at least one unit with MI.

With respect to the second game I obviously can't cope with a disrupted deployment so the main thing I have learnt is to choose to fight in plains!

This post has been edited by MarkC: Jul 26 2018, 01:54 PM


--------------------
Currently working on:
(ADLG) 15mm Republican Romans

Would play if I had time:
ADLG 15mm Carthaginians: 200+ pts

Packed away:
(FoW) Australian Rifle Company (EW/MW): 1500 pts / 200+ pts
(FoW) Deutsches Africa Korps (EW/MW): 1500 pts / 200+ pts
(FoW) Canadian Rifle Company (LW): 1750 pts
(WFB) 2600+ pts Dwarfs
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Nagnar
post Jul 25 2018, 10:28 PM
Post #2


Member
*

Group: Veteran Members
Posts: 107
Joined: 21-August 13
Member No.: 14,784



The Heavy Chariot was also Elite and Impact (Almost but not quite as good as medium knights, very good against cavalry and non-spear/pike infantry) and I did not have a fortified camp.

The Chinese light horse had to charge at an angle to avoid my own cavalry who were in the way. I could not shift to avoid them as they did a half turn. In retrospect it put them in a terrible position. I should have charged with only the outermost 2 joining the existing battle instead of chasing your 1 lighthorse.

In melee the 10 pt heavy mixed units fight as 6 point mediocre heavy units which is not great. I still have to work out how best to use these. Their shooting can be fun though.

It is likely that much the same effect could be achieved with less light infantry and instead getting a medium unit, though in the first game they were decisive in the infantry fight.

My list had no LI and if i played it again I think i would switch one heavy mixed unit for a LI and another Light horse.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
MarkC
post Jul 26 2018, 01:55 PM
Post #3


Member
Group Icon

Group: Support Veteran
Posts: 4,021
Joined: 29-July 05
From: Central Coast, NSW
Member No.: 1,849



QUOTE(Nagnar @ Jul 25 2018, 10:28 PM) *

The Heavy Chariot was also Elite and Impact (Almost but not quite as good as medium knights, very good against cavalry and non-spear/pike infantry) and I did not have a fortified camp.

Army list for Han Chinese in original post has been corrected.


--------------------
Currently working on:
(ADLG) 15mm Republican Romans

Would play if I had time:
ADLG 15mm Carthaginians: 200+ pts

Packed away:
(FoW) Australian Rifle Company (EW/MW): 1500 pts / 200+ pts
(FoW) Deutsches Africa Korps (EW/MW): 1500 pts / 200+ pts
(FoW) Canadian Rifle Company (LW): 1750 pts
(WFB) 2600+ pts Dwarfs
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
MarkC
post Aug 2 2018, 01:20 PM
Post #4


Member
Group Icon

Group: Support Veteran
Posts: 4,021
Joined: 29-July 05
From: Central Coast, NSW
Member No.: 1,849



EDITED below because in ADLG you get to shoot in opponents turn as well as your own.

Thinking about the mixed units - the crossbows have a range of 4 which means that when dealing with an approaching enemy you will probably have four turns of shooting at HI and two turns of shooting at MI (recall that in ADLG you get to shoot in your own turn and your opponents turn).

Average units shooting at average targets with protection 1 has a 28% chance of victory (according the the game aids on the ADLG site). That means if you have a mixed unit shooting at an opposing unit that you have over two turns 52% chance of no hits, 40% chance of 1 hit and 8% chance of 2 hits.

If shooting at Heavy Infantry you would expect 27% chance of no hits, 42% chance of 1 hit, and 31% chance of at least two hits.

What we experienced was that the 4 Carthaginian LI (admittedly elite) in front of the 4 Chinese mixed units ended up 2 units untouched and 2 units with one hit each. Note that the Chinese line advanced, so this may have cost them 2 turns of shooting.

I would have thought that a unit of Halberdiers would have been better value for your main line than a mixed unit. I can understand the appeal of the mixed unit at the flanks to be able to shoot at any light units trying to get around your main battle line.

With my force, spending 20% of the 100 points on LI was too much. Just replacing them with normal LI Javelin and getting rid of the fortified camp (which I only used to make up to 100 pts) would give me 7 points for another unit of something. Time to get painting.

Regards

Mark C

This post has been edited by MarkC: Aug 12 2018, 12:22 PM


--------------------
Currently working on:
(ADLG) 15mm Republican Romans

Would play if I had time:
ADLG 15mm Carthaginians: 200+ pts

Packed away:
(FoW) Australian Rifle Company (EW/MW): 1500 pts / 200+ pts
(FoW) Deutsches Africa Korps (EW/MW): 1500 pts / 200+ pts
(FoW) Canadian Rifle Company (LW): 1750 pts
(WFB) 2600+ pts Dwarfs
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th January 2020 - 03:58 AM