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> ATC feedback and wrap up
Paddlepop Lion
post Sep 9 2013, 05:08 PM
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actually you came on turn 2, left turn 3, on again turn 4 then because it was short edges you couldnt flame me till turn 5, i put my remaining jetbikes in the way so you couldnt get close enough to flame me effectively turn 5 then i moved the rest of the seer council in the way to stop you getting into the one position you can to burn the last guys. I still passed 2 Ld tests on the last unit to stay around.

You may not think GW intended to not allow fliers on top but its in the book and the ATC FAQ so i dont know why you feel so robbed. it was a real close game that i had to work my ass off to win.
All the fortress does is allow me to not get completely mangled by helldrakes, night scythes, storm ravens and Tau armies that go first.
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Demon
post Sep 9 2013, 05:11 PM
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QUOTE(Paddlepop Lion @ Sep 9 2013, 02:51 PM) *

Fortresses do command the table but thats what there kind of supposed to do.

They cost 250 pts which is no small price so your fighting a fair bit less army as a result.


kinda like a landraider

except with a giant, giant footprint

QUOTE(Paddlepop Lion @ Sep 9 2013, 02:51 PM) *

many codexes simply dont use them well however so i dont think we are in any danger of them causing big problems.


Its the lists that can use them in a certain way thats the issue.

Hey Im not suggesting banning them or anything, but the idea of basically winning an objective by deploying seems a bit loose is all.


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Paddlepop Lion
post Sep 9 2013, 05:26 PM
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Well thats the thing tho. you dont auto win at all.

You can only hide one objective without leaving a large gap between the fortress and the board edge that enemies can just walk behind so even in the games where your opponent cant get behind it, you still have to come out of it and contest the other objectives to win.

If its a 3 objective game and you get to place 2, one is behind the fortress and they only need to hold thiers, contest the other and play for bonus points. if its scouring or you roll up 5 objectives its not even that big a deal. Most games unless your smashing them you leave thier home objective alone and focus on contesting midfield ones / keeping yours anyway so its just a lascannon and a blast which is pretty crap despite its size.

have a look through the ATC lists however and count the number that dont have a way to get behind and kill 10 measly dark eldar warriors.
Every list with fliers can do it, every list with a deep striking unit roughly as substantial as 7 marines can do it, anything with a bunch of mounted meltas can do it by killing the annexes and subsequently the guys inside.

Its not as simple as putting it in the corner and now i win. it takes alot of effort to make it work for you.
Nothing needs to change with fortifications IMO its just that people need to be aware of how they work and play around them.
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Angmar
post Sep 9 2013, 05:26 PM
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I just strongly doubt that gw intended for units that are allowed to end their move over impassable terrain to not be able to finish their move over a bsttlement
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Paddlepop Lion
post Sep 9 2013, 05:36 PM
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Yea i can see your point it does seem weird.

Im sorry if you didnt enjoy the game as a result of this, it was not my intention to pull anything on you.
If it makes you feel any better, if the rules happend to be different and your drakes could end on them then my bikes could too. This would open up a whole range of BS tricks for my army and it means the fortress is not in the way all the time. (it makes dragging slow poke eldrad around the board pretty difficult)
But most importantly it would mean my bikes can just stand up there themselves which would mean rather than throw bikes at you to try and kill you with them i would have saved more bikes to stand in the places you needed to go to do what you wanted. Either way i would have been making it as hard as possible for you to flame me effectively and i have practised it alot.
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Angmar
post Sep 9 2013, 05:45 PM
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I enjoyed the game, it just felt like that ruling made us playing the game seem irrelevant, May as well of called it turn 1 then played a friendly game over a beer.
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Paddlepop Lion
post Sep 9 2013, 06:14 PM
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I dissagree. I think i was lucky to win given you got first blood.
I have practiced alot against fliers and had to work real real hard to not lose that game. It may have seemed futile but it was very close and i think if you just deep struck your oblits you would have had me.

Anyway im glad you enjoyed the game despite it.
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Nikolectric
post Sep 9 2013, 06:28 PM
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Well this devolved quickly lol.

Thanks a great bunch to everyone who was involved with running the event and to all our opponents. I personally had some of the best games i've ever had at this event and met some real good bros.


Regarding fortifications and missions. ill give my feedback directly to my committee member and Tom.


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Shadowmancer
post Sep 9 2013, 06:36 PM
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I think that the Jumper may of been left at BackpackOz sorry. Think it was under a Duvet or something when we checked out.
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Durkah
post Sep 9 2013, 07:03 PM
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Yeah, I gave the jumper to the NZ boys. They didn't have the whole team present and were going to check with the other players to see if it was there. smile.gif


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Wolflord
post Sep 9 2013, 07:16 PM
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I agree with the general dislike of the objectives/fortresses tongue.gif

Objectives - Would definitely prefer even number of objectives always. Would actually prefer preset objectives even more (ie one in the center of each quarter on a d.o.w. game, 3 in no mans land on vanguard, etc etc).

Fortresses/Bastions - 1-You should be able to shoot/assault/kill them when theyre empty. 2-They should die as wrecks not impassible terrain. 3-You shouldnt be able to set them up flush to the table edge. 4-Shouldnt be able to model them to your advantage, doors/guns/emplacements shouldnt be another way to game the system. This is getting to genuine house rule levels which I generally dont like, but I just cant stand their rules.



However these are my issues with 6th in general, not with the tournament specifically. Beautifully run, and really fun weekend.
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glynaynsley
post Sep 10 2013, 11:37 AM
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Just want to make a mention here that I played no bull###### 5 of the best opponents and games I've had in a long time.

When playing for sheep stations this is really awesome to see and come away with.


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Drazah
post Sep 10 2013, 11:43 AM
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Cheers for an awesome tournament guys. It was like playing on top tables for 5 whole games, and I was definately exhausted afterwards. Had heaps of fun though!

I love hard competitive games and I was given those all weekend against 5 opponents i've never played before, only one i've even spoken to, great to meet all of you smile.gif Shout out to Doug from NZ who got thrown under the bus early on, but challenged me for the toughest fought win i had of the tournament, Havent had a game that close for a long time mate!

The venue was awesome, cheep drinks, cheap food, walking distance to other food, loved it. The SA terrain was awesome too, good coverage, mixtures of terrain types etc.

Also congrats to NZ, you guys are breeding some quality players over there, the VIC NZ round was super close on every table, we'll get you next year! armata_PDT_36.gif
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Matt--ShadowLord
post Sep 10 2013, 11:47 AM
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QUOTE(Drazah @ Sep 10 2013, 12:43 PM) *

Cheers for an awesome tournament guys. It was like playing on top tables for 5 whole games, and I was definately exhausted afterwards. Had heaps of fun though!


By coincidence I was just saying the same thing in a report about the event on our local forum (westgamer.com)

"When viewing player's individual results, keep in mind that the calibre of opponents is such that almost every single game is like playing the final round of that tournament where you've fought your way up through the pack to be on the top table.
Picture your worst nemesis, the player you find hardest to beat with the army that best counters yours, playing their best to try and win the trophy at the end of a weekend of battles, and that's what each of the five rounds would be like."

From my point of view, that alone is worth the cost of entry biggrin.gif


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Æon
post Sep 10 2013, 11:53 AM
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QUOTE(Wolflord @ Sep 9 2013, 07:16 PM) *

4-Shouldnt be able to model them to your advantage, doors/guns/emplacements shouldnt be another way to game the system. This is getting to genuine house rule levels which I generally dont like, but I just cant stand their rules.


Hang on, did people convert there own fortresses and model them for there own advantage?

Im ok with peiple creating third party Ageis Lines as long as they are the same length and height; however modifying a fortress to gain some advantage and not use a stock standard Fortress is not on imho if it is in fact what happened...


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Matt--ShadowLord
post Sep 10 2013, 12:09 PM
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QUOTE(ĆON @ Sep 10 2013, 12:53 PM) *
Im ok with peiple creating third party Ageis Lines as long as they are the same length and height; however modifying a fortress to gain some advantage and not use a stock standard Fortress is not on imho if it is in fact what happened...


Wolflord was saying that not allowing fortress buildings to have doors would be the house rule. The ATC ruling was they had to be modelled, made clear to opponent and consistent across the tournament.

I've made a thread specifically for this topic to prevent this feedback thread turning into a fortification debate
http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=158404

This post has been edited by Matt--ShadowLord: Sep 10 2013, 12:10 PM


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Buddha
post Sep 10 2013, 12:22 PM
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Glad we were able to capture a good fun vibe for the weekend, and among all the serious business, there was a lot of good games and good times and had.

Cheers for the feedback so far everyone smile.gif


FYI, this tournament has kick started my enthusiasm for playing some games again, so watch out next year ladies wink.gif
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Demon
post Sep 10 2013, 01:26 PM
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QUOTE(Buddha @ Sep 10 2013, 12:22 PM) *

FYI, this tournament has kick started my enthusiasm for playing some games again, so watch out next year ladies wink.gif


come at me bro

weekend of no games and watching some great games got the vibe going

This post has been edited by Demon: Sep 10 2013, 01:29 PM


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QUOTE(WitchFinderGeneral @ Jul 2 2017, 05:43 PM) *

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Brookesy
post Sep 10 2013, 08:22 PM
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My thanks to the organisers and opponents for a great weekend of gaming. As was said before, even when playing at what was the most competitive event I had attended, the opponents I faced had a great attitude come win, draw or loss. biggrin.gif

Feedback:
- Missions; were they what you expected? changes for next year?

The missions were fine but I would prefer to have seen the number of objectives evened out so there is less of an advantage to the player who rolls highest first up.

There is a part of me that would like to see the Scouring objectives standardised (not taking anything away from my opponent who played excellently) but it is a fairly uphill battle when I have a 1, 2, 2, objective compared to their 3, 3, 4. Still, this may be a bit too far of a shift from the rulebook which should really be what is followed, for better or worse.


- Fortifications; yes, no, maybe? restrictions?
I have no problem with them. They have an impact on the game sure, but they bring a different tactical emphasis to the game and well, they are in the rules.

- 3hr rounds? long enough, too long?
I finished most of my games well within the 3hr mark. If more time was needed to creeate an extra round, I think it could have been trimmed a little without affecting things too greatly.
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Crynn
post Sep 12 2013, 11:36 PM
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QUOTE(Buddha @ Sep 10 2013, 12:22 PM) *

Glad we were able to capture a good fun vibe for the weekend, and among all the serious business, there was a lot of good games and good times and had.

Cheers for the feedback so far everyone smile.gif
FYI, this tournament has kick started my enthusiasm for playing some games again, so watch out next year ladies wink.gif


Good to hear, and good to see you again mate.

On to the tournament. generally I'm pretty hard on tournaments and what I expect but I have to say this was really well run. It's funny how at a tournament where every player is giving it all they've got, using every rule with hard armies the T.O. can describe the tournament as so easy to run that he should bring a hammock.

To the TO. Fantastic job mate, twice I came to you with rulings and not once did you say "4+ it" which is essentially the sign of a TO who doesn't really understand the question or doesn't care enough to work it out. You were on point, made sure things ran to time and what I thought was great was how you used captain's opinions about rules to base your own which meant you really understood both sides instead of just saying "i feel that GW thought..." blah blah blah. If I knew you were TOing an event that would be a huge reason for me to go.

TO the 5 players I played. When people know they are going there to win and to play hard armies there is an attitude shift. I didn't see any sour faces in my games no matter the result and had the luxury of 5 games that actually challenged me, which is 3-4 more than you get at most tournaments. I put my opponents through little tricks and horrible maneuvers and instead of getting all ######ty I was simply able to show a rule or FAQ and have the player learn something new themselves and at worst get a comment with a smile saying "that's dirty". (Sorry Dennis!!!, i forced 5 scouts out the front of my bastion onto an objective using emergency disembarkation by blocking the door with my grey knights which were technically an enemy and thus allow the BA scouts to bail out the front!). By far the best part was heading out with everyone afterwards and realizing how similar we are when it comes to playing the game and learning about how the lists I didn't understand functioned. Showed me how clever some of these players are!

Venue - Excellent, not to hot or cold, wasn't stuffy or crowded, had food and beer, what more can you ask for.

HANDS DOWN the best tournament I've ever been to and I would recommend the ATC to anyone who thinks they are good enough to make the teams and wants to play some excellent games of 40k against great opponents who can play hard but are great guys at the same time. Was nice to see so many girl friends there as well, shows that the top level of the game is actually made up of people you would hang out with on the weekend, even the girls felt safe.

See you all next year. (If I make the team)

Regards,
Crynn



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