Sunday Thread, 19th May: Start at page 40, post #782 & 1st as usual Options

[Preacher]

Well this Sunday is out anyway now. Forgot about a previous commitment. I'll be at the club challenge for Jan for sure.

[Gorgrunt_Ironhorn]

So who's up for a game against the new Vampires this Sunday?

I've made my list. My Hexwraiths are ready to roll

[Warbossr]

Maybe , if not enough turn up for Pathfinder.

[Psyche]

So who's up for a game against the new Vampires this Sunday?

I've made my list. My Hexwraiths are ready to roll

What do ya'll think of the book? I really like it. The changes to slain general make them much sturdier I think.
Raising models seems easy enough & provides a good number in d6+wizard level.

At 3pts a model they are cheap enough that a big horde of them is going to be a horrible tarpit. Then add in that when resurecting zombies you get 2d6+level AND can go above starting size makes for yuck.

[Gorgrunt_Ironhorn]

What do ya'll think of the book? I really like it. The changes to slain general make them much sturdier I think.
Raising models seems easy enough & provides a good number in d6+wizard level.

At 3pts a model they are cheap enough that a big horde of them is going to be a horrible tarpit. Then add in that when resurecting zombies you get 2d6+level AND can go above starting size makes for yuck.

They will make for a horrible tarpit for units that can't fight. Anything else that churns out the attacks will still grind them to dust.

It's good they fixed up the lore of vampires and the lores you can use.

The Black Coach remains the same, except it lost a wound and the sixes it captures can still be used as normal. I really like that change.

But it all remains to be seen what their capabilities are when they are put in the battlefield. I hope there's enough of us to defend the Empire when the VC leave their lairs in Sylvania...

This post has been edited by Gorgrunt_Ironhorn: Jan 14 2012, 09:31 AM

[Psyche]

They arnt combat monstors no, but even at ws1, with enough of them they will hit something. They wont go anywhere and can res up heaps to replace.

[Ra-num]

One rule stuffs them up.
That's unstable.

[Preacher]

I hate to say it but you are not going to see vampires in lists. Necromancer spam all the way for the win. Vampires are just too expensive, hard to protect and easy to kill.

[Preacher]

The Black Coach remains the same, except it lost a wound and the sixes it captures can still be used as normal. I really like that change.

It had 4 wounds in 7th as well. It's not going to power up anywhere near as fast and it doesn't nuke your opponents phase. Given how short of points you are going to be I don't see the coach making many lists. Too many great special choices and expensive characters. After your mandatory core you don't have many points left for the rares.

[Ra-num]

Have to get my vc out too then. Gives me a chance to use my tk models in a better list as it seems

[Preacher]

Have to get my vc out too then. Gives me a chance to use my tk models in a better list as it seems

To be honest I don't think they are better. Different maybe but not better. They are going to suffer from all the same problems that the TK's do.

[Gorgrunt_Ironhorn]

To be honest I don't think they are better. Different maybe but not better. They are going to suffer from all the same problems that the TK's do.

After looking at the book more, I have a feeling that they may have trimmed too much things out. Sure, they added the new units and changed the magic around but I was expecting bloodlines to come back. Oh well. At least a Vamp can no longer take Life Magic. That was so wrong

[Ra-num]

So the growing feeling is that they are not any better and are just as stuffed as tk at the mo? Surely with all the new stuff they are better than tk's. Or is this just the reaction to finally reading the army book and all the rule there in?

[Gorgrunt_Ironhorn]

So the growing feeling is that they are not any better and are just as stuffed as tk at the mo? Surely with all the new stuff they are better than tk's. Or is this just the reaction to finally reading the army book and all the rule there in?

There's always the factor of "Its new, so its better". The initial reaction when looking through the book has been outweighed once we got games in.

I'm having a game with them tomorrow night to get more insight into the army. But from my one game experience against VC so far, I can simply say that they have brought the rules into line with 8th edition and on par with the other army books.

[Preacher]

I am putting them fwith the Tomb Kings in power level. There were a couple of hard combo's possible in the old book, the new book has totally removed them. The new MI is nice and so are the hexwraiths, but the competition for special points is fierce. They are going to suffer from all of the problems that the Tomb Kings have regarding poor combat troops and unstable.

When I heard the rumors that it would be possible to stop crumble after one round I was thinking it would be viable to run a combat vampire lord on a zombie dragon again because it wouldn't matter too much if it died, but being unable to heal the dragon has put a real downer on that idea.

[Ra-num]

So crumble is still the game killer for the undead... Suxs really. This needs to be changed just a little bit to allow both to be somewhat useful.

[Gorgrunt_Ironhorn]

After 2 games of using the new VC and one game against them, here are a couple of observations.

One, the starting sizes of units doesn't need to be insanely huge, but it definitely helps. I reckon you need Master of the Dead on the Master Necromancer. Zombies should be at least 40 to start off with and should be about 50 strong before they get into combat. Or else its bye bye to them.

Was the Varghulf always with 4 wounds? I find its so fragile for what it does (ie. Flank, war machine hunter.) Heck, it doesn't even fly anymore.

The units in a VC army that will normally kill enough to cause a break test in big sized units aren't big enough to cancel the Steadfast. And the VC units big enough to cancel Steadfast don't have the hitting power to win combat.

Kim, the Black Coach is Vampiric, so can Fly the full distance (once it has it). Also, the Blasphemous Tome on the Mortis Engine forces you to roll twice on the miscast table, with the opponent choosing which effect you take.

[SnEaKy_GiT]

Ahhh forgot about that one ... well the 2nd Miscast I had you'd already killed the Mortis Engine anyway ... but the frist miscast with the level 2 it was still around ... ummm ...

With that light it makes the Black Coach a more attractive option .... ummmmm .... too many things I want ... but not enough points ...

After looking back on it ... I think I can afford to be a bit more aggressive with the list I took .... oh wells ... playing with it is the only way to learn

[Preacher]

Was the Varghulf always with 4 wounds? I find its so fragile for what it does (ie. Flank, war machine hunter.) Heck, it doesn't even fly anymore.

The varghulf always had 4 wounds and it could never fly. It was ok when you could regen crumble but took a major hit with 8th. Thunderstomp helps it somewhat against some things but its not great. A pair against infantry works wonders, just ask Ross how his orcs liked two into the flank. Vampiric allows it to march so it doesn't need to be babysat like most other units in the VC army. Its gained a couple of points of I so has improved slightly.

Kim, the Black Coach is Vampiric, so can Fly the full distance (once it has it).

Its a chariot, chariots can never march. A 20" fly is a march, the Black Coach can only ever go 10" via flying.

[Gorgrunt_Ironhorn]

The varghulf always had 4 wounds and it could never fly. It was ok when you could regen crumble but took a major hit with 8th. Thunderstomp helps it somewhat against some things but its not great. A pair against infantry works wonders, just ask Ross how his orcs liked two into the flank. Vampiric allows it to march so it doesn't need to be babysat like most other units in the VC army. Its gained a couple of points of I so has improved slightly.
Its a chariot, chariots can never march. A 20" fly is a march, the Black Coach can only ever go 10" via flying.

Aww, I stand corrected. The Black Coach sucks again