Chaos Dwarf list for Dogcon List 1 or 2? Options

[Varzad_Singebeard]

Ok trying to get my list locked in for Dogcon. The Chaos Dwarves are going to wave their banners.

Which list do you prefer as (A) the list you would like to fight, ( the list that is most effective and © what sort of comp rating would the lists receive? Any suggestions on improvements are welcomed.

In short List 1 has more magic, List 2 a chariot killer.


List 1
Sorcerer Lord, Lvl4, Black Gem of Gnar, 2 Dispel Scrolls
CD Hero, BSB, Armour of Gazrakh (1+ Save)
CD Sorcerer Lvl 2
Hobgoblin Hero, Wolf, HA, GW, Sh

Core:
16 Blunderbusses
16 Blunderbusses
24 Chaos Dwarf Warriors HA, Sh, Musician
20 Hobgoblins, Sh
20 Hobgoblins, Sh
10 Hobgoblins, Bow
10 Hobgoblin Wolf Riders LA, Sh, Standard

Special:
35 Sneaky Gits Standard
2 Bolt Throwers
1 Death Rocket

Rare:
1 Earthshaker
12 Bull Centaurs, Standard, Champion, War Banner

List 1 Summary
Magic levels: 6
Power dice: 8
Dispel dice: 5 + 2 scrolls
Unit Deployments: 10
Models: 176

Core: 40.9%
Specials: 14.5%
Rare: 18.5%
Characters: 26.1%


List 2
Sorcerer Lord, Lvl4, Black Gem of Gnar, 2 Dispel Scrolls
CD Hero, BSB, Armour of Gazrakh (1+ Save), Biting Blade (-1 Sve)
Hobgoblin Hero, Wolf, HA, GW, Enchanted Shield, Gauntlets (+1 Str)
Hobgoblin Hero, Wolf, HA, GW, Sh

Core:
16 Blunderbusses
16 Blunderbusses
24 Chaos Dwarf Warriors HA, Sh, Musician, Champion
20 Hobgoblins, Sh
20 Hobgoblins, Sh
10 Hobgoblins, Bow
10 Hobgoblin Wolf Riders LA, Sh, Standard

Special:
35 Sneaky Gits Standard
3 Death Rockets

Rare:
12 Bull Centaurs, Standard, Champion, War Banner

List 2 Summary
Magic levels: 4
Power dice: 6
Dispel dice: 4 + 2 scrolls
Unit Deployments: 10
Models: 172

Core: 41.4%
Specials: 18.9%
Rare: 13.7%
Characters: 26.1%

[sart]

I would prefer to play the second simply for the no earth shaker Factor.
But the First 1 IMO would be much more effective.

Both would be looking like a 5 IMO
Earth Shaker IMO is what makes the first 1 a 5
and the 3 Death rockets is what makes the second 1 a 5.

Both Look highly effective

[rampagingpenguins]

list one is much more effective
i'd rather play against list 2 - less magic, less shooty
i'd rate the first list a 3, having never played against CD before, i think a 3 is about right on normal scoring systems, on a DC system, i'd say the first gets a 5, the second i would probably give a 5, maybe a 6 depending on how good death rockets are (stone throwers? then a 5).

[CountArach]

List one is better because you can get more magic off, and it has the earthshaker.
Agreed with both of the above comments that the second one is better to play against.
Both would be 5s IMO, as they aren't drasticly either way.

[Colzey]

First list definately is the way to go. A few things that spring to mind. Give the BSB a sword of might, spread the love with the scrolls. You don't want to be stuck using the gem early in the game with scrolls up ur sleeve.

Also how do you plan to use the BB units 16 strong? 6,6,4 or 4x4?

[Wolfman]

OK then, I get to play against CDs a bit . . . List 1 is the best, but could do with a few teaks IMHO.

I don't see the need for 3 Death Rockets in list 2. Take 1 and have 2 Bolt Throwers ie list 1. Better to have variety in war machines and 1 Earthshaker is OK.

12 Bull Centaurs is a huge pts sink. Reduce to 6 with full command and War Banner.

The Hobgoblin cavalry bulk up to 12.

Ensure your Hobgoblin hero with GW and wolf has the Gauntlets (ie S7) and use him as a single scud 18inch missile. He only costs 82pts.

Have 3 units of Hobgoblins with shields (60pts each). No need for Hobgoblins with bows, they can hardly hit anything worth while with S3.

BSB should also have the Sword of Might.

Split the scrolls between the 2 wizards.

I'd love to do a Chaos Dwarf army as well, but I'm not sure they have much of a shelf-life into the next edition.

[Colzey]

Wolfman: I have to disagree with the 6 BC w/FC and warbanner being the better option. BC's that small i have found to be shot up way too easily. Only need 2-3 casulaties and they arn't gunn do much with or without warbanner.

[Wolfman]

Well I suppose it's all opionions. Personally I find paying for extra models for ranks for cavalry units a huge pts sink.

6 Bull Centaurs might not get a lot of attention. 12 certainly will and I bet you'll lose more pts with a unit of 12 than a unit of 6 before they hit your opponent's lines.

But of course it's all IMHO and it would be a boring game if we all had the same opinion

I have to admit, I find playing CDs one of the more enjoyable armies in WFB to play against. A pity their medium to long term future is so uncertain :cry:

[Varzad_Singebeard]

Thanks for the comments! It seems list one gets the nod. I will try and tweak it a little.

@Colzey I tend to use the BBs in a 4x4 formation. The main reason is the ability to quickly turn and then wheel to hit something screaming down the flank of my unit or popping up in my rear. I have tried nearly all the BB combinations from 10-20, 4x3, 5x3, 6x3 etc and 4x4 just seems to work the best. Against skirmish armies like Southlands I sometimes run it wide 8x2 and blast away but the majority of the time 4x4. They are weak in combat but 4x4 can survive against light cavalry. Against anything serious they are usually toast in HTH unless the BSB and General are both nearby.

@Wolfman I used to run a BC unit of 7 with warbanner in much the way you describe. Sadly it always attracted plenty of attention and often entered combat with just 3 or 4 models left. A unit of 12 is probably target priority #1 or #2 (if opponent has a lot of shooting, then earthshaker is #1) and so will suffer casualties but can be in combat by Turn 2. Given the weak armour save of 4+ vs shooting/magic I have to put them into combat early against any army with some shooting or magic capability. I try to think of them as a throwaway unit, so that they can get some points before being destroyed. The scud missile is effective against knights and chariots so will see if I can squeeze him in.

The hobs with bows will stay they are as you rightly point out pretty useless but have won a couple of games for me by coming out of hiding into prolonged combats and once shot, taking the last wound off a nurgle daemonic chariot which was about to pound my army into the dust! Light cavalry does not like S3 bows. If my opponet has no light cavalry then they are basically a quarter holder.

The CDs are a great army to play with and most seem to enjoy playing against them. I hope they survive into 7th edition, they have good fluff prospects as a technology driven master/slave race but the future looks pretty dim at the moment.

[Colzey]

Wolfman:

But of course it's all IMHO and it would be a boring game if we all had the same opinion  

Indeed, couldnt agree more!

The extra centaurs arn't there for rank bonuses. If they make it unscratched even better, but we all know that usually can't be helped. They are there for casualty purposes. I use to run a small unit without command to pik stuff of up the flanks but they got hammered by shooting thus didn't want to put more points into a command.

I have to admit, I find playing CDs one of the more enjoyable armies in WFB to play against.

Yeah, i have found that they are one of the most enjoyable to play 'with' aswell.


Varzad_Singebeard: I just notice........... WHY THE HELL NO MUSICIANS!!!!

My CD army is very similar to your first list, though i have a second unit of 24 warriors instead of hobgobs. Only difference in characters is that i have a sword of might on BSB and enchanted shield on wolf.

Despite my mates saying i'm a gluton for punishment i wuill be there with my CD's. Though after playing them at MOAB i found they lacked combat hitting power (played 4 OK armies) so am playing around with a hero (GW and armour of furnace) as my general. BSB and 2 Lvl 2's.

I will post my list later. But am looking forward to seeing another chaos dwarf army there!

[Colzey]

Sorry, saw a musician in your worrior unit