Golden Demon Options

[Slardy]

I normally wouldn't make a post like this but my level of angst and frustration is now at an absolute limit.

I rang GW Parra today (not the first time mind you) to enquire as to what may be happening on Saturday... finally I got onto a very young staffer.

As a background for you all I guess there was a lot of talk about what Saturday would entail priroo to this change occuring this year...ie talks of private function, drinks, etc etc etc. Now like many I'm flying to sydney FOR WHAT???? Basically to protect my hours of work and in the slim hope that this might have been a good thing for all of us.

Today I was told there will be nothing happening on the day except judging and presenatations quote "that may happen at 4PM"
I was also told I couldnt take my models home on Saturday.... yup too bad if you 're flying home Sunday morning.... bet you all didnt know that like me??!!!


What the??? Is this the best that GW can do after 6 weeks of competition and 1 year.... rock as all out to Parramatta to sit around and do nothing....

Now I'm a sporting administrator for over 8000 students in my metro area in Brissy and man If I couldnt come up with somethng for people who will fly from all over Oz and NZ then frankly I would be fired!!!

People who are there on Sat its time to really speak up..... Golden Demon is dying... and we must speak to someone.. or do something. This format is not the answer!!!! if it was a raging success why did GW UK drop it like a cold fish years ago????

I wont even go into some of the farcical occurences that I have observed so far... ie the horrid effect with the lack of anonomity, posting of photos without artistic permission, the fact that some peoples works are "protected" from photography and even mentioning their entries whilts others are discussed / photographed without due concern
( ie shocking photos etc etc) etc etc etc I can hardly wait to see how many will be broken or chipped??? What is there to even see... almost every model has been photographed and put up here on AU or other sites

Anyway.... my rant... Well I guess you'll see me on Saturday sitting for hours on end looking at the same store stock in the same generic GW shop.....

[Slardy]

Cant believe no one has made a comment.... am i the only one who can see ????? Man I sound like I'm on the x-files....

[Castigo]

Im sure GW will have some excuse.....not surprising thou. Good luck with ur entry mate.

[Paintingploddy]

I'll wait and see what happens on saturday. My hopes aren't high and I'll probably head into Sydney and spend some money at Tin Soldier (and any model shops i can find/anyone can suggest) The organisation seems ad hoc at best, but I had to enter, and I want to see the best on offer on Saturday. The thing that has been missing is the organiser actually addressing these issues and posts as they are raised, whether on an official GW website or another forum.

On Sunday I'll make up my mind whether this format works or not.

[Rob_Jedi]

Well I can point out in the interest of things to do in Parra, that there is a fine comic shop right next door to GW. There is also a pretty good old hobby shop called Sheriffs Mini Cars up along the side of westfield (on the main st running along it toward the rain lines) they have a good range of sci fi and japanese stuff there.

I too am baffled by what in hell is happening on Saturday, I'll be there in the arvo to take pics of the minis (even the sceret ones XD). Hopefully there are enough of us around to go get dinner.

[Jester of Death]

well i for one purposly didnt enter this year because of how the event is being run, hopefuly gw will realise the lack of enteries and revert back to the old or better system for gd. as for hobby shops in sydney, try hobbyco, they stock heaps oof hobby stuff like trains, model cars, etc...


jod

[numbat]

Prepare long rant, trying to think of what to write since Slardy is after replies :-D

I have felt for a very long time that the reason that *I* enter the demons is not to win trophies (though if I do, it's a plus, and I never expect to), but it's the chance to catch up with fellow painters. It use to be the only time of the year we'd all be in one place, and for the previous years I've tried to organise a dinner or something so we get a chance to meet up outside of Games Day.

With the abolition of Games Day, this year I was quite worried that people would be hit with the "couldn't be bothered" to travel to Sydney to visit the local Parramatta store (no point sugar coating it with battle bunker or hobby centre - for the purpose of this event, it really is just another local GW store). At least with Games Day, people had a purpose to travel the distance, and there'd be something to do while the Demons were happening.

So I was on the verge of actually not organising another Golden Camel for this year as I thought most people would just stay put at home and wait for the results and receive their trophies in the mail.

I was told by GW that it was up to the painting community to organise events for themselves (and hence why I think Leigh took the initiative to try get accomodation deals, organise a room, etc.). Believe me, I was a bit miffed at all of this, especially when I was asked to run the Camel again this year by GW staffers - it's like asking me to provided added value to the visit of people who go to Parramatta because GW weren't going to provide too much on the day. Of course, at the time I asked GW didn't want to help me organise the event or provide some sort of sponsorship (not that I expected them to).

In the end I decided I would try organise something, hence the After Golden Demon dinner in the other thread, because I was overwhelmed with joy by the number of people who did decided to make the trip (and even new people to the competition whom I'm sure would have liked to see something more akin to a Games Day or Conflict to make the trip worth it, not just visit the local hobby store).

So even if there are no events organised by GW, hopefully we can all catch up with each other on the weekend and make it worth our whiles, whether it be the time, the cost or the distance.

PS. Come to my dinner. It's cheaper than a Games Day ticket, and just as fun. :-D

[Rob_Jedi]

The food and company is way better too

[Gonzoangel]

I decided last week not to attend as I couldn't get any answers as to what the weekend entailed......now I'm kinda glad I chose not to go.
I have to admit that the time between the regionals and the Nationals is long and quite frankly, hard to take, but I can understand the reasons behind it such as packing and freighting all those entries, etc, so I have been patient and will continue to do so.
I wasn't aware this system had been tried elsewhere in the world, but if it has why haven't the organisers here learnt from what went wrong elsewhere?
I was very skeptical from the start about this, but thought I'd give it a chance, because I want GD to prosper in the years to come and not die a sorry death. That will just rob everyone of the chance to view the work of some of the worlds best miniature painters and modellers. I think maybe GW UK should think about sending over some help next year as their GD seems to do well every year, so why can't we pick their brains about the right way to do this?
So many questions, so few answers.

[Zordana]

I, too, have no idea what's happening on the weekend.
Im flying out tomorrow and will probably drop my miniatures off on Thursday and ask what the heck is going on then.
To be honest, with all the kefuffle that's been going on, ill probably just duck in to see who won what for myself and friends, and then go back to catching up with my family - which is pretty much the main reason im over there, I just figured it'd be good to time it to coincide with the GD.
Hopefully next years runs a little smoother.

[Slardy]

[quote]So many questions, so few answers.[/quote]

And this is the point...they don't answer any questions??? I can tell you all right now you have seen the last of any of Glenn's work in this country...
Mate odds are the sword winner wont even be there this weekend.... yup i reckon we'll be clapping in an empty room


Guys a glimer of hope remains if we tell the GW's this weekend that it aint good enough!! We must lobby hard to save GD or it will die a slow painful death or lose whats left of its artistict integrity...man I want to compete aginst the best and if guys like Glenn etc are pulling the pin then it just becomes a big store painting comp.

I dont care about winning I just want to compete against the best and sorry this comp in its format will never provide that... man we cant even use display bases... dont get me started on how poorly i've seen some of the entries in single fig handled!!!

Gav

[Zordana]

Heh you'd die if you saw how I handle my own minis

[weisern]

just got home from work. ooh what a hot thread!

i had a very good hunch what the day would be like. lots of waiting. i would not have entered this year but since i've never won a GD, i found myself wasting my time again. the 1st and 2nd round should be indication enough of what will happen. put minis in. wait for results. entertain yourself.

i look forward to chatting to other painters on the Sat to kill time, as i've never known who you guys were pre-WAU.

even at Games Day last year, 3 of us went, entered, queued in an annoying line to check out the competition, quickly walked around checking out tables, then left to play mini golf outside. the new release stuff was rarely worth a GD. taking photos of minis in round 1 and 2 for this new format was more to my taste. though its only a small portion, i was luckily enough to see the work of some masters in Victoria.

the handling of single minis without a display base is a big issue. i have two rare-earth magnets on the base of mine and i handed the mini in on a white metal plate about 3cm X 4cm. they gave me no arguments in round 1 or 2 as the plate is not ostentacious and still sits on the entry card and does not take up extra display space. plus they were more comfortable handling the metal plate and not touching the mini. i did the same to my dragon and will be arguing for my flat white metal plates to be accepted.

not knowing that you couldn't pick up your mini on Sat must have been a real pain. i wonder how early you can pick it up on Sunday? the earliest i've heard is lunch time as Leigh mentioned he would've (can't make it now) picked it up then to make his noon flight back. the rough guideline he was told was that GW would at least like to display winning entries for a little while on the Sunday.

the posting of people's mini's without their consent is an issue too. thanks to Victoria Lamb's, i was persuaded by her shining example to post my stuff too and to dispel any taboos i previously had. i'm guessing you must be vexed about people posting inferior pics of your Bret men at arms. i picked that for a 2nd place win last year.

chips in minis: Leigh has told me that Andrew Long is prepared to give some leeway to chips due to transportation. though its unfair that the public did not know this, and other info. a crowded store is a recipe for disaster (getting bumped) when one tries to hand in minis. beware. Leigh dropped one of his models on the morning of the 1st round after being bumped. though he managed to fix it in time before the cut off time.

perhaps Glenn will travel overseas to compete with the real pros in Europe. it is a shame for painters to have to resort to such actions. 2006 Rackham Paris open anyone? Damn, if only i spoke French, to add to the travel incentive.

i would say, i am not going to enter GD again. but that's what i said last year. i'll probably end up entering next year. it does sound like it may turn into a big store painting comp. but then again, new master painters (e.g. that Sebastian guy) may support the new format and give you your desired competition with peers of your level.

win or lose, the only thing i can look forward to and enjoy would be the company of fellow painters (as wallowing in defeat last year was a bad use of the time).

weisern

[Paintingploddy]

The old concept didn't suit me. This is why I have entered for the first time. Things could be done better and an honest critique should help sort out the problems.

On the other hand as I said I will be there on saturday.

Unfortunately due to outside committments I will be flying back in the early evening, otherwise I'd love to compete in the Golden camels.

Maybe next year.

[Slardy]

great reply weisern and it will be nice to meet on Saturday... look my aim in this post is to garner some support to put pressure on GW this week to really let them know that we are not happy and that they HAVE to START listening to stuff!!!

If we sit still and say nothing about what we have seen then we are fools.... i have some very interesting stories from QLD regionals about entries making the regionals on huge display bases!!! what the????

Your base is a great idea... well done... i think I will do that for this weekend as well... bottoms of all my figs are magnatised.... I'm very upset about my LOTR single fig that is very stained in places.... you will be able to see why on saturday...white is not a good colour for people to be directly handling....

Anyway thanks for all your replies... I love GD and think it WAS the best painting comp in OZ... something that I have been inspired by and encourages me to continue to strive to be a better painter...

slardy

[Gonzoangel]

[quote]Maybe next year.[/quote]

Here's hoping there IS a next year!!

[quote]you have seen the last of any of Glenn's work in this country... [/quote]

if this is true it's very sad to hear, very sad indeed. I'm a big fan of his work, as most people here are, and GD just wouldn't be the same without him.

[Aspirant]

I think numbat has it right, in that the onus is on the painting community to make GD, and especially this Saturday, a worthwhile experience. Although I am not qualified to comment on this year as compared to previous years - this is my first GD - it seems clear that most of the fun of GD comes from meeting other painters, having a talk, and checking out all the great minis. While we've all experienced various (and strangely differing) accounts of what is actually going to be happening on Saturday from members of GW staff, I'd have to agree with Weisern that it's probably going to be much like rounds 1 and 2 - that is, contestants will be pretty much left to their own devices to while away the hours. I know I had a pretty boring time waiting around at Parra during round 2 judging. But during round 1, by contrast, I had a great time once I (finally) met - someone - numbat.

I've been really excited about meeting others on this weekend, it will be great to meet all those names I keep hearing in person. This is why you have to keep entering Weisern - it's not about winning, it's about meeting everyone and having a good time, which will only happen if people like you DO keep entering! And I realise it's expensive to fly to Sydney for those that don't live here, but that's all the more reason why we should make sure we organise things to do amongst ourselves, like numbat's golden camel, to try and make the trip worthwhile.

So although Slardy is right that we should alert GW to our concerns with the new competition format, I don't think being overly confrontational or critical will be very constructive...although they want feedback, I think GW has already pretty much determined the amount of involvement/organisation/money they are comfortable putting into the event. So I guess it's up to the rest of us, in future years, to ensure GD remains a healthy, growing and most importantly, a fun competition.

Sebastian

[Rob_Jedi]

Yo Sebastion look forward to meeting you. Andrew and I need to organise a group painting day soon (it's the only way I manage to get a decent amount of stuff painted, my Khador Jacks may finally get done).

The big issue to me is GW is putting all the onus on us to actually make the comp an event where as the entire reason for the comp is to promote GW and the hobby, frankly that's ass backwards. They really need to be making this a big event, with a proper presentation. Holding it in the back of a store out west of Sydney with no schedule and no grandeur is just nuts. Hell the place is full of gaming tables there'll barely be room to stand in there. That is of course depending on if anyone actually goes.

Am I the only one that thinks if they want this to be so national and spread all over Aus that the Conflicts that have totally replaced Games Day should just BE the new Games Days, open the Demons up properly by having one in each Region (just like it is done in the US and Europe) man look at a map of Europe or the US and compare to the size of Oz, sure we have a smaller population but if they want this to be a national event they have to actually make it AN EVENT. Hell I'd travel to different GDs if I could (something that painters do in the US and Europe every year). That is how you make the comp bigger, you make it BIGGER, not water it down. Having WA, SA, VIC, NSW, QLD, NZ Golden Demons every year would be awesome, hell think of all the extra content WD would get out of it (which frankly is the number 1 reason they do the thing in the 1st place, it promotes their hobby).

[Rob_Jedi]

Andrew has pointed out to me the one big flaw in my above argument. There aren't enough actual entries in each region to make this viable :-( (going by regional results) and the winners of each state will likely be forgone conclusions. Really though how can GW or we the painters make this comp bigger if it is getting smaller :?

[Arithon]

This will be the first time in six years since I have entered anything. I am just hoping I think like the rest of you that we can get something organised for the day. The lack of organisation is I admitt annoying. Considering we have some of the best painters from each region represented and we dont really have any real plans for the day is not something you expect from a major event. Well I am loooking forward to meeting people so far I have only read about or talked to briefly on the net.

I think Rob_jedi has some good points about possible furture directions. Given that we have our own WD for the Australian region I would really like to see more of the local artists featured. I believe that is starting to happen. It will be interesting to see what is discussed this weekend.