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> Power Weapon vs Single Lightning Claw
Paraelix
post Apr 9 2012, 06:58 AM
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Does anyone have the math on these for Space Marines? Losing the bonus attack vs gaining rerolls to wound. Can't decide which I'd prefer running.
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Yaleling
post Apr 9 2012, 07:05 AM
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The first question is what is the other weapon they are carrying? If it is a bolter/combi-bolter/stormbolter or such then the choice easily goes to the lightning claw.

The next question is who is wielding it? The more base attack they have and the more likely they are going to be charging makes the lightning claw's re-roll more attractive compared to the power weapons extra attack.


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Paraelix
post Apr 9 2012, 07:24 AM
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Blood Angel Vanguard Vets... And potentially some Sang Priests with Jump Packs... So it is Bolt Pistol/Power Weapon or Bolt Pistol/Lightning Claw in all likelihood.
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Cheexsta
post Apr 9 2012, 09:44 AM
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Vanguard vet sergeant attacking another Marine; no charging.

BP+PW = 3 attacks
1.5 (50%) hit, 0.75 (50%) wound.

BP+LC = 2 attacks
1 hit (50%), 0.75 (75%) wound.

Charging with Furious Charge (because as if you wouldn't!).

BP+PW = 4 attacks
2 hit, 1.3 wound.

BP+LC = 3 attacks
1.5 hit, 1.3 wound.

It's only against higher toughness enemies that lightning claws start to get better, but with furious charge and a couple of meltas you probably won't need it. Power weapons seem to be more useful, point-for-point, unless you're taking a two-handed ranged weapon as well.
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Paraelix
post Apr 9 2012, 09:56 AM
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Yeh... It's looking like potential damage will outweight reliable damage...
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Lacrimosa
post Apr 9 2012, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE(Paraelix @ Apr 9 2012, 09:56 AM) *

Yeh... It's looking like potential damage will outweight reliable damage...

lol


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Crynn
post Apr 10 2012, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE(Paraelix @ Apr 9 2012, 09:56 AM) *

Yeh... It's looking like potential damage will outweight reliable damage...


It really doesn't because as soon as the opponents toughness gets higher the lightning claw comes significantly better.

Toughness 3 is the only time the power weapons is better. other than that it is only as good on toughness 4 and worse against all other toughness values. and is barely better against toughness 3 may I add.

Rule of thumb. If its base number of attacks is 1, take the power weapons. if it 2 or more take the lightning claw always.

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neil
post Apr 11 2012, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE(Lacrimosa @ Apr 9 2012, 07:39 PM) *

lol


No that actually made sense.

3 attacks with a power Weapon and 2 attacks with a Lightning Claw will both kill .75 marines on average. But the chance of the Lightning Claw killing 0 marines is lower (39%) than the Power Weapon (42%) - so it's more reliable. But also, the Power Weapon has a 1.5% chance to kill three marines, which the lightning claw can't do (so higher potential damage).


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TopherPlus
post Apr 11 2012, 04:06 PM
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QUOTE(neil @ Apr 11 2012, 03:58 PM) *

No that actually made sense.

3 attacks with a power Weapon and 2 attacks with a Lightning Claw will both kill .75 marines on average. But the chance of the Lightning Claw killing 0 marines is lower (39%) than the Power Weapon (42%) - so it's more reliable. But also, the Power Weapon has a 1.5% chance to kill three marines, which the lightning claw can't do (so higher potential damage).

Its a good example of why mathhammer bugs me sometimes.

Most examples used rely on the average MEQ kills. But with such low sample sets in the rolls (usually a dozen dice for one of these weapons max) its nice to know what you can do with both bad rolls and good rolls.



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DarkHorse
post Apr 11 2012, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE(Crynn @ Apr 10 2012, 08:12 PM) *

It really doesn't because as soon as the opponents toughness gets higher the lightning claw comes significantly better.


The power fist is still king though, even for the 5 or so extra points.


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ru486baby
post Apr 11 2012, 06:17 PM
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power weapons on standard WS4 dudes Lightning Claw on priests. P.fists on 2 attack base is a good rule to work from


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Paraelix
post Apr 11 2012, 08:01 PM
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Well I'm looking at the configuration for my unit of Vanguard Vets in a blood angels army...

Now there is a chance my Vets may start the game with FC and Fearless... There is also a good chance they may happen to be standing close to one of the 3 Priests in my 1500 list... Now this can more or less render moot all this argument of "better vs T3 and nothing else", because my power weapons in all likelihood will be rocking Strength 5.

Which means if Power Weapons are the way to go vs 1 toughness lower, which will be all MEQ models, then you should all be singing their praises and not Lightning Claws :S
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Starfire
post Apr 12 2012, 05:53 AM
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Lightning claws for me. But that's because Power Weapons never, ever wound, despite what the maths says.


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Cheexsta
post Apr 12 2012, 06:35 AM
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QUOTE(Starfire @ Apr 12 2012, 05:53 AM) *

Lightning claws for me. But that's because Power Weapons never, ever wound, despite what the maths says.

Even in my Chaos Terminator squads, where there are 3+ power weapons, this is depressingly true armata_PDT_05.gif
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