Blood Angels Dready Army, Is this frowned upon? Options

[Earendil the Dark]

I have recently picked up the BA codex and became aware of the possibility of running an army that has 9 or so dreads in it. (I have made a normal list as well.)

When I was discussing the army list with a mate he said he had mentioned this type of list a while ago to some 40k players and they frowned upon it at a comped tournament.

This gave me the impression that it was only a list that could be used at non comp tournament. I haven't used the list or run it through properly to agree/disagree. If it is solely a non comp list, why have I not seen it at no comp tournaments. I have seen other BA lists there, but never this style. Is it because buying 9 dreads is expensive......I'm not sure it is that much more expensive then any other army. 1 razorback/thunderfire cannon/land raider, all of these are the same price if not more and a tactical squad is only slightly less. AOBR dready are pretty cheap anyway (you will need to get hold of some blood talons though).

So what do others in the community make of a BA list that fields 25 death company, 5 Death company dreads, 3 furioso dreads, maybe 1 or 2 heavy support dreads and a librarian (HQ) in a 1750 list. Is this nuts and does not work, is it boring charging someone with 9 dreads, is it over the top and rude. I am keen to know before I invest time and money into this project. Mind you if it is even remotely close to 50/50 I am going to do it. I am keen to model these guys up and let 'em run.

Cheers in advance,
Matt

[BorisBC]

Well they aren't grey knights or space wolves so youve got +1 for comp. And if you paint them as BA or a successor chapter, that will get you another +1, so the lowest comp you can get is a 2 out of 5!

You will have to go for an annihilation win for each game though, as nothing can score. You may want to drop a dread and some dc to take a scoring unit.

I wouldn't think it's really over the top - at 1750 there will be plenty of armies that can shoot up some dreads, and 25 dc will be an unwieldy unit. Still, dreads are awesome, so I say go for it! I've got 5 myself.

[casperionx]

Remember Death Co Dreadnoughts count towards the Death Co model count requirement for fielding them (ie you can have 9 Death company marines and a Death Co Dready to qualify for a second one).

I would actually run say 17-18 get 4 death co dreads, fit in a chaplin (re roll to hit AND wound!!) and a scoring troop choice or 2 (assault squads with DoA to help control when they come on for late game obecjtive grabs??)

Death Co are annoying and if they get into combat they are hard to kill. And can kill lots!

[Earendil the Dark]

Can someone direct me to to the page or FAQ which mentions that death company dreads are non scoring. My mate says, it is what he thinks is the go, but couldn't remember where he heard/read it. I am fine with death company being no scoring as they have the Black Rage but dreads don't have this. I would think that as they are DC as well they might have the same rules.

[Earendil the Dark]

Are the dreads considered part of the death company group and therefore subject to Black rage. Why then do they have just rage in their special rules and not black rage?

This post has been edited by Earendil the Dark: May 23 2012, 04:41 PM

[Earendil the Dark]

Never mind. P.90 in rule book says something about vehicles, even if troop choice, can never be scoring.
I may need to put in a scoring unit as mentioned above.

Cheers.

This post has been edited by Earendil the Dark: May 23 2012, 04:55 PM

[Mono]

Death company dreads are vehicles and without a rule stating otherwise are not scoring as per the main rules, basically same reason dedicated transports are not scoring.

Just out of interest how do you come to death company dreadnoughts count as death company for calculating allowed dreads?

I don't think that they can count as a death dread is referred to as a Dreadnought in unit composition, tactical, assault and devastator squads have compositions of Space Marines, Death Company has a composition of Death Company.

To calculate how many death dreads you get you count how many Death Company models are in the army and there is only one type of unit that is made up of Death Company

[Earendil the Dark]

Yeah, I am going to take 20 death company and have 4 dreads on top of that. I believe there is a distinction between the two types of units as well. This will free up some points to take a troop choice.

With a scoring unit, does this now mean my list is unsuitable for comp tournaments?

[Zidi]

Yeah, I am going to take 20 death company and have 4 dreads on top of that. I believe there is a distinction between the two types of units as well. This will free up some points to take a troop choice.

With a scoring unit, does this now mean my list is unsuitable for comp tournaments?

That depends on the comp score you want to get.

I've looked at this type of list before and i think it's probably getting a 2/5 which is fine for comp tournaments. People just see spam and cry a bit at comp tournaments, but really you'll have 3-4 different dreadnought types amongst things you should be fine.

[Golden Gecko]

With no scoring units, would you really care for a comp score?

Unless you are a fantastic general or play absolute amateurs, you wont be placing high enough for Comp to matter enough on countback.

Hope they have a cheese or fluff award.

[Earendil the Dark]

GG you missed the last few posts. I was considering taking a scoring unit. Based on your cheese comment I guess you think it OT even without a scoring unit.

This post has been edited by Earendil the Dark: May 23 2012, 05:43 PM

[SneakyDan]

Its really not mate. Its 5th ed - Dreads need to get close to fry face, generally, especially DC dreads. They suffer from rage, so can be kited about reasonably effectively, or misdirected. Add to this the fact that you really only have the 9 Hulls. It sounds like heaps, but it aint hard to knock over 10+ Chimera Hulls in a no comp environment, and those generally fire manticore rockets and what not - your running across the table pellmell hoping to get there. Assuming you do get across the table (with say, 6 dreads) then you have no ability to multi charge with them, (Though the DC can) and become prone to being tarpitted. Thats assuming that you don't hit the edge of your 12+ D6" bubble (for fleeting dreads) and miss your assault range - because its highly likely that anyone competent will simply deploy/mobilise in such a way that you WILL cop his melta units, before you get to charge. Assuming that is the case, I think you could assume 3-4 dreads will actually get there (This is all assumptions based on competent general, tourney terrain, and 4-6/10 lists mate - So discretionary caution).

As far as comp goes, I think you would deserve a 5/10 for the list with a scoring unit, and 6/10 for the list without. If you upped the scoring units, you would probably hover around that 5/10 mark - because your going to lose dreads to make that possible.

Give it a crack brother - i reckon it looks fun

Dan

[Zidi]

Ok, so i just threw together a quick list to see what it comes out as. I think i had 7 Dreadnoughts in the end.

I had

Librarian - Combi-Melta, Shield and Blood Lance

Furioso Librarian, Wings and Blood Lance
Furioso - Frag Cannons replacing storm bolter fist
Furioso - Frag Cannons replacing storm bolter fist

10 Death Company - 3x Power Weapons, 1x Power Fist
Rhino
Death Company Dread - Blood Talons, Magna Grapple
Drop Pod
Death Company Dread - Blood Talons, Magna Grapple
Drop Pod
5 Assault Squad - Melta
Razorback - TL-Las
5x Assault Squad - Melta
Drop Pod

Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons
Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons

1750

I wasn't really sure on a few things, i was just playing around quickly after all. Maybe full out drop dread army could work. Could possibly get the Assault squad up to 10 man for 3 scoring units, but i thought extra hull on the board + good shield carrier may be useful. I reackon it looks like a 2.5 for comp to me. Maybe a 2, but yeh. I think it can be done in a comp environment.

This post has been edited by Zidi: May 23 2012, 07:11 PM

[Earendil the Dark]

Thanks heaps! The quick informative responses are helping a lot, especially when someone actually has a look at the how the list would play out or throws a list together. Cheers for that.

As both of the last two posts suggest, I will need to lose a couple of dreads to make this work and have suitable scoring units. Now to get the dreads (not as many needed now )

Matt

[Zidi]

Thanks heaps! The quick informative responses are helping a lot, especially when someone actually has a look at the how the list would play out or throws a list together. Cheers for that.

As both of the last two posts suggest, I will need to lose a couple of dreads to make this work and have suitable scoring units. Now to get the dreads (not as many needed now )

Matt

You can another quite easily from the list i posted if you wanted. Dropping the Rhino and Razorback + one power weapon on the death company gets you enough for another Rifle dread.

I'm not really sure how to get anymore then that to work, 15 death company just seems too unwieldy to me, I think having them in a transports is logical, particulary with blood angels as they can move up quickly.

Another way to look at the list could be more drop dreads...do scouts have infil or just scout? Because infiltrating locator beacons could be interesting.

I'd have a good think of how you wanted to get things to run, but 10 Death Company in a Rhino + 2 Death Company + Shield of Sang seems essential really.

This post has been edited by Zidi: May 23 2012, 07:44 PM

[Greatwolf Glen]

You can another quite easily from the list i posted if you wanted. Dropping the Rhino and Razorback + one power weapon on the death company gets you enough for another Rifle dread.

I'm not really sure how to get anymore then that to work, 15 death company just seems too unwieldy to me, I think having them in a transports is logical, particulary with blood angels as they can move up quickly.

Another way to look at the list could be more drop dreads...do scouts have infil or just scout? Because infiltrating locator beacons could be interesting.

I'd have a good think of how you wanted to get things to run, but 10 Death Company in a Rhino + 2 Death Company + Shield of Sang seems essential really.

Scouts and scout bikers both have infiltrate and scout, and access to locator beacons so with that in mind I would be looking at more drop dreads so you get them where you need them the most.

[Zidi]

Scouts and scout bikers both have infiltrate and scout, and access to locator beacons so with that in mind I would be looking at more drop dreads so you get them where you need them the most.

The main reason i thought having the death company dreads in pods could be useful is it removes somewhat the rage problem, as you control the drop and hopefully can choose its target pretty well.

Against some armies it may not work very well. Especially melta spam lists, but thats the bane of any dread army really.

[Crynn]

I would l;ove to see a 9 dread army! never seen one before only talk. Who cares if people frown upon it, if you enjoy it take it, it's even fluffy. In the BA codex there is astory where the Baal is assaulted by a huge WHAAAGH while the chapter is deployed elsewhere so Moriar the chosen ancient venerable DC dread leads all 40 someting BA dread out of the bastion adn crushes the horde in one assault!

AWESOME!!!

Regards,
Crynn

[Zidi]

I would l;ove to see a 9 dread army! never seen one before only talk. Who cares if people frown upon it, if you enjoy it take it, it's even fluffy. In the BA codex there is astory where the Baal is assaulted by a huge WHAAAGH while the chapter is deployed elsewhere so Moriar the chosen ancient venerable DC dread leads all 40 someting BA dread out of the bastion adn crushes the horde in one assault!

AWESOME!!!

Regards,
Crynn

Librarian - Shield, Some other power

Furiso Librarian - Sheild, Some other power
Furiso Dreadnought - Talons
Furiso Dreadnought - Talons

15 Death Company
Death Company Dread - Talons
Death Company Dread - Talons
Death Company Dread - Talons
10 scouts - camo-cloaks, Missile

Rifledread
Rifledread
Rifledread
------
1740

Something like that Crynn? Even has 2 scoring units with cloaks!

This post has been edited by Zidi: May 24 2012, 03:33 PM

[Earendil the Dark]

That last list is very close to the mark.

Have you got drop pods for those dreads (I haven't checked the points yet to see).

The purchasing of that army starts today, although if I end up using drop pods it may be a bit longer than expected. Here goes.