IA lists in 6th Ed, acceptable in tournaments now? Options

[J.D.Entropy]

So given we are going to see a lot of really strange and potentially unbalanced lists popping up due to the allies rules, do you think that the consensus about allowing IA lists at tournaments will change?

[Dono1979]

Although we are starting to see a relaxation of the restrictions against IA lists and units in Canberra tournaments, I think the same people are going to remain opposed to them no matter.

On a side note it was really interesting to see the number of people at Wintercon who loved the Contemptor Dreadnought I was using (well maybe not all ofmy opponents) and said that they would now consider start using it and other units as well as be more happy about facing them.

Well done to Wintercon for allowing the units, it showed that such an inclusion didnt destroy the tournament in any way, or even unbalance it as far as I was aware.

-Dono

[Plebicidal]

So given we are going to see a lot of really strange and potentially unbalanced lists popping up due to the allies rules, do you think that the consensus about allowing IA lists at tournaments will change?

Especially since most IA, particularly the 40k approved ones are hideously overcosted.
All the ridiculous appoc stuff is already ruled out by FW themselves.. seems like a no-brainer to me.

The only thing I think anyone can complain about is that they dont have access to the rules.. & really, I dunno about anyone else, but I dont have a copy of every codex & I never will.. yet I dont try & tell people they cant take some fan-dangled whotsit from the necron book just because I dont know its rules.

Seriously.. the only people looking to bring IA to tourneys only want it for the fluff.
WAAC players dont want some overcosted unit when they could spam something cheaper & just as effective!

This post has been edited by Plebicidal: Jun 28 2012, 03:17 PM

[Speedhump]

I for one HATE playing games where my opponent has IA Dreads... Especially when I have my poor whiddle stealers...

That freaking dread with the 2 assault cannon, with 6 shots each.. HITTING ON A #$%^&* 2+

Dratted thing mowed down 10 stealers PER turn by ITSELF!!!!!
And he had 2 of them(I think).



(Actually, IA stuff is a hoot. as lng as you know they are using it in advance...)

Just wish they had Hybrid lists for Stealer armies.

[EmpireGuard]

Especially since most IA, particularly the 40k approved ones are hideously overcosted.
All the ridiculous appoc stuff is already ruled out by FW themselves.. seems like a no-brainer to me.

Some AI are over costed but some are undercosted and some just add something to the game that can be a game changer.

I have always been Cool with AI in events but people need to bring the rule with them and the TO needs to approve it.

[J.D.Entropy]

I think based on the introduction to the IA book which came out recently (forget which one) this is something GW had in mind anyway.

[TheOriginalHavoc]

IA has a marketing issue more than anything else.

Getting it into tourneys is a case of exposing more people to it (particularly T.O.s) and showing that it can be as comfortable as any codex unit.

An Edition change isn't going to do it by itself, particularly as the Edition change hasn't even come out yet.

So have more friendlies using IA, or (better yet) organize an event which allows (and encourages) it to get more of the community familiar, then you may see it accepted into more tourneys.

[Plebicidal]

I think based on the introduction to the IA book which came out recently (forget which one) this is something GW had in mind anyway.

IA apocalypse 2nd ed

I have always been Cool with AI in events but people need to bring the rule with them and the TO needs to approve it.

Totally agree.. I never rock up with something & not have the rules available for my opponent.
Id even be happy to supply the rules to a TO to help with their evaluation ahead of the event.

[Archon Eugenic]

IA apocalypse 2nd ed
Totally agree.. I never rock up with something & not have the rules available for my opponent.
Id even be happy to supply the rules to a TO to help with their evaluation ahead of the event.

Yay for Tau manta.. 2000 point flyer... Who needs an army??

[Dono1979]

Yay for Tau manta.. 2000 point flyer... Who needs an army??

Tau Manta hasnt got the 40k stamp so even FW dont recomend for non apoc games.

-Dono

[ZarkinFrood]

Im sorry but what does IA stand for?

[Good ol Shakey]

Imperial armour.

As much as Id love to see more IA, I don't wann see the bitching that comes with it... sigh, oh well

This post has been edited by Good ol Shakey: Jun 28 2012, 06:07 PM

[Dono1979]

Imperial armour.

As much as Id love to see more IA, I don't wann see the bitching that comes with it... sigh, oh well

That's surprising because I haven't had a single complaint about me using IA yet, I am wondering whether there is a perceived dislike of IA units when in fact the majority of people no longer have anything against them and it is just a very vocal minority?

-Dono

[Good ol Shakey]

I believe if you can use one IA item you can use all that are legal. Then people whine about deathstorm and lucious pattern drop pods all day.

[Cypher]

Yeah, the issue is the handful of IA units that are hideously broken to the point of gamebreaking.

It eventually gets errata'd out, but every one in a while FW creates rules that should never, ever be used in a game. Ever.

[PlasmaDavid]

Such as? I like the whole "Apoc or 40k santctioned" stamps. A lot.

[J.D.Entropy]

That's surprising because I haven't had a single complaint about me using IA yet, I am wondering whether there is a perceived dislike of IA units when in fact the majority of people no longer have anything against them and it is just a very vocal minority?

-Dono

Agreed. I have had expressions of surprise - "Wow, DKOK models fielded as DKOK", but once a single game has been played against the list I have not had anyone say anything is fundamentally broken.

I'd like it to be assessed on a case-by-case basis. Something along the lines of "if you want to submit a list using IA units, submit your list early for TO approval". Removes the problems of the Lucius pods (which break game mechanics).

[Good ol Shakey]

Sigh... Lucious pods are not even that bad once you ready the rules... First turn charges are easily gianed with scouting transports and infiltrate... Yet you don't see people complain about them enarly as much...

[Biggy]

That's surprising because I haven't had a single complaint about me using IA yet, I am wondering whether there is a perceived dislike of IA units when in fact the majority of people no longer have anything against them and it is just a very vocal minority?

-Dono

This!

[Chaplain_Fortis]

Sigh... Lucious pods are not even that bad once you ready the rules... First turn charges are easily gianed with scouting transports and infiltrate... Yet you don't see people complain about them enarly as much...

When they were only +15 points and the meta made a first turn charge with an ironclad something that actually achieved something they were really horrendous. Now not so much.

I think there's two parts to this. The first is the obvious, TOs don't know how balanced or good the IA rules are (and it seems like now they are mostly fine, probably underpowered with a couple of things that are really really stupid like that thunderfirelandraider) and it's easier to ban it all than to invite exceptions to be offered.

The other is that there is an actual material advantage to using IA. The units are uncommon, people don't have access to the rules as easily. The response is always "I'll bring the book and show it to people" which sounds reasonable until you actually think about it. 40k is a game of target priority, the more familiar you are with stuff the easier you will win. If you are fighting a meat and potatoes marine army you can get all your target priority right easily and do well if you're decent at the game. If you play against something a bit more uncommon like Eldar it's a little harder to do. If you play something like Eldar with all the IA units then it's nearly impossible, even with a quick read of the rules to figure out how the target priority is supposed to go.