 EW vs FnP |
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| EW vs FnP |
| Paraelix |
 Jul 6 2012, 09:34 PM
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#1
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Member  Group: Veteran Members Posts: 854 Joined: 25-January 10 Member No.: 8,815  |
So let's see if people are just as retarded here as everywhere else.
Eternal Warrior = immune to the effects of Instant Death Feel No Pain = a save that is denied by an attack that inflicts Instant Death So, a T5 Plaguebearer is hit by a Rail Gun (S10). Can it take a Feel No Pain save due to having Eternal Warrior, or is the weapon still considered to "inflict" Instant Death, even though the model is immune to the "effect"? |
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| ÆON |
Jul 6 2012, 09:45 PM
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#2
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 Edition Change Skeptic Group: Veteran Members Posts: 9,597 Joined: 19-November 04 From: A Hole in the Ground (Canberra) Member No.: 222 |
QUOTE(Paraelix @ Jul 6 2012, 09:34 PM)  So let's see if people are just as retarded here as everywhere else. Wow; what a great way to start off a post... -------------------- "Hail ÆON - Slayer of the Scrubs" Yes, I really am that awesome :) |
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| Paraelix |
Jul 6 2012, 09:50 PM
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#3
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Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 854 Joined: 25-January 10 Member No.: 8,815 |
The thread on warseer devolved into people quoting dictionary meanings of the word "inflict". If that isn't retardedness in an internet forum, then I clearly don't know what is.
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| Reclusiarch Rusty |
Jul 6 2012, 09:50 PM
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#4
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 Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 1,464 Joined: 14-October 06 From: Sydney, Australia Member No.: 3,241 |
I think the plaguebearer should get FnP.
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| Kingnova3000 |
Jul 6 2012, 09:58 PM
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#5
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 Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 3,770 Joined: 20-November 04 From: Morayfield (North of Brisbane) Member No.: 324 |
eeerm wah?
Is it a trick question. Railgun strength is twice that of a plaguebearer's toughness, ergo no FnP. Maybe Im too stupid to understand the topic... This post has been edited by Kingnova3000: Jul 6 2012, 09:59 PM -------------------- "Your self-image is restrained by having to observe the barriers between yourself, and others."
- Of the Voidblazer Legacy - |
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| Archon Eugenic |
Jul 6 2012, 10:00 PM
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#6
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 Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 1,642 Joined: 27-July 08 From: Sydney Member No.: 5,845 |
This was argued a little before.. I believe NO FNP save for him..
Why? The wound causes instant death, on T5, but the Plague-bearer ignores the effects of ID.. the FNP save does not ignore the effects of ID. Otherwise I could argue that the plague-bearer ignores the effects of ALL ID wounds and such cannot be hurt by anything that would inflict ID. This doesn't matter much here. BUT Drazhar has Eternal warrior and Paladins inflict ID wounds (S6 vs T3) so he ignores the wounding effects of Paladins (and anything else with S6 or higher). Yay.. now worth the 250 point he costs.. -------------------- QUOTE(Blade_of_Apollo @ Jan 15 2013, 03:09 PM) Sexist, acknowledges it, and refuses to change. |
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| Kingnova3000 |
Jul 6 2012, 10:01 PM
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#7
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Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 3,770 Joined: 20-November 04 From: Morayfield (North of Brisbane) Member No.: 324 |
Hang on, do plaguebearers have eternal warrior?
This post has been edited by Kingnova3000: Jul 6 2012, 10:02 PM -------------------- "Your self-image is restrained by having to observe the barriers between yourself, and others."
- Of the Voidblazer Legacy - |
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| Elliot.Yung |
Jul 6 2012, 10:02 PM
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#8
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Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 354 Joined: 7-May 12 Member No.: 12,956 |
QUOTE(Archon Eugenic @ Jul 6 2012, 10:00 PM) This was argued a little before.. I believe NO FNP save for him.. Why? The wound causes instant death, on T5, but the Plague-bearer ignores the effects of ID.. the FNP save does not ignore the effects of ID. Otherwise I could argue that the plague-bearer ignores the effects of ALL ID wounds and such cannot be hurt by anything that would inflict ID. This doesn't matter much here. BUT Drazhar has Eternal warrior and Paladins inflict ID wounds (S6 vs T3) so he ignores the wounding effects of Paladins (and anything else with S6 or higher). Yay.. now worth the 250 point he costs.. Drazhar is T4... -------------------- Used to be the Resub King...
Resub free since B-O-G 2012: Book of Grudges 2012, W4 L2 D0, 11th Warhammer World Series, W3 L3 D0, 14th Axemaster 2012, W3 L3 D0, 15th 2013: 1st Western Smash, W2 L2 D0, 14th Empire in Flames, W2 L4 Do, 26th |
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| Elliot.Yung |
Jul 6 2012, 10:03 PM
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#9
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Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 354 Joined: 7-May 12 Member No.: 12,956 |
Also since he is one of the few things Dark Eldar have that can now crack 2+ with his demiklaves, while maintaining high initiative, he's gonna be really worth it
-------------------- Used to be the Resub King...
Resub free since B-O-G 2012: Book of Grudges 2012, W4 L2 D0, 11th Warhammer World Series, W3 L3 D0, 14th Axemaster 2012, W3 L3 D0, 15th 2013: 1st Western Smash, W2 L2 D0, 14th Empire in Flames, W2 L4 Do, 26th |
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| Paraelix |
Jul 6 2012, 10:05 PM
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#10
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Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 854 Joined: 25-January 10 Member No.: 8,815 |
QUOTE(Archon Eugenic @ Jul 6 2012, 10:00 PM) This was argued a little before.. I believe NO FNP save for him.. Why? The wound causes instant death, on T5, but the Plague-bearer ignores the effects of ID.. the FNP save does not ignore the effects of ID. My justification is similar... The attack causes Instant Death, but Eternal Warrior makes you immune to the effects of Instant Death - it does not stop the attack from causing it in the first place. Furthermore, it is not an effect of Instant Death to deny Feel No Pain. It is a stipulation in the rule of Feel No Pain that it does not work vs an Instant Death attack. |
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| Shadow Fox |
Jul 6 2012, 10:08 PM
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#11
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 Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 2,603 Joined: 15-December 08 Member No.: 6,578 |
Summarizing how I see it. (I play daemons too - mainly seeing this a something for nurglings more than plaguebearers)
Instant Death: Trigger: Model suffers a unsaved wound. Condition: Weapon is of a strength high enough to cause instant death or a ability that causes instant death. Effect: The model is removed regardless of wounds. Eternal Warrior: Trigger: A model would suffer the Effect of the Instant Death event. Condition: Model has eternal warrior ability at time of application. Effect: Effect of Instant Death is ignored. Feel no pain: Trigger: Model suffers a wound. Condition: Unsaved the wound would not meet the conditions of Instant Death event. Effect: A feel no pain save is made. I don't think they'd get a save. The plaguebearers are still taking a attack that inflicts instant death. The fact that they are immune to the effects of instant death doesn't cause feel no pain to also ignore this. Unless we are to take all special rules as being interactive... That may cause problems. -------------------- --Campaigning against the mistreatment of Chaos Dwarves in Fantasy-- |
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| Paraelix |
Jul 6 2012, 10:14 PM
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#12
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Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 854 Joined: 25-January 10 Member No.: 8,815 |
I think that is quite eloquently put, Shadow Fox.
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| alpha_and_omega |
Jul 6 2012, 10:39 PM
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#13
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 Member Group: Bad Trader Posts: 1,539 Joined: 6-September 09 From: THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON Member No.: 8,118 |
Yep.
I'd say he gets the feel no pain. As all models in the daemons codex is eternal warrior -------------------- Soon I discovered that this rock thing was true, Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil.
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet. All of a sudden, I found myself in love with the world. So there was only one thing I could do. Was ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long Sleeping itself is ok, it is where I get to be a viking after all |
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| neil |
Jul 6 2012, 10:46 PM
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#14
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 Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 11,674 Joined: 13-January 06 From: Adelaide Member No.: 2,415 |
I think he gets feel no pain. Instant death can't be inflicted on an eternal warrior model.
I'm not biased because I think plague bearers are terrible and I don't use them  -------------------- Please ban everyone.
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| Marshal_Loss |
Jul 7 2012, 12:40 AM
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#15
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Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 218 Joined: 6-February 12 From: Brisbane Member No.: 12,562 |
He gets fnp
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| EzekielBrodie |
Jul 7 2012, 04:41 AM
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#16
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 Member  Group: Support Veteran Posts: 2,790 Joined: 21-November 04 From: Wagga Member No.: 357 |
He most certainly does not get FnP.
Eternal warrior means that if he had 2 wounds (a herald?), he would only suffer 1 from a ST10 hit: "Immune to the effects of instant death". Eternal warrior has no effect on feel no pain, ergo no FnP save from a ST10 attack: "Attack that inflicts instant death". He gets hit, fails his save. The attack is still an "attack that inflicts instant death", therefore no FnP. Then we apply EW and see that he only suffers one wound. EW makes the model immune to the effects of ID, but does not extend to making his FnP immune to ID. To follow the logic that "he's immune to ID, therefore his FnP ignores ID" can only follow with the thought that all ID attacks will not cause any wounds, which is blatantly incorrect as the model is only immune to the effects of ID, not the ID attack itself. |
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| Harvey Birdman |
Jul 7 2012, 06:43 AM
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#17
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 Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 4,284 Joined: 20-September 08 From: Adelaide Member No.: 6,103 |
Here's a thought: the interaction between the 2 rules has not changed between editions.
What were you doing in 5th? -------------------- QUOTE(The Sound of Machines @ May 30 2013, 09:25 PM) They are lingering like Elvis, when they should have gone out on top, like Jesus. |
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| Ranko82 |
Jul 7 2012, 07:38 AM
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#18
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 Member  Group: Support: Veteran Merchant Posts: 2,883 Joined: 5-October 09 Member No.: 8,261 |
He'd get his 5+ inv, but no FnP for him. FnP is ingored by ID, no matter if he has EW or not.
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| Bane |
Jul 7 2012, 09:20 AM
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#19
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 Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 4,086 Joined: 19-November 04 From: Lockleys, SA Member No.: 116 |
heres a thought
the interaction between the two rules has changed in 6th edition. In fifth edition feel no pain was negated by weapons that have strength double your toughness, and the rule specifically mentioned that it didnt matter if you had eternal warrior. Now there is no such specification and the rule makes no mention of the strength to toughness relationship. As it stands I belivee that Eternal warrior leads to eternal feel no pain simply because if the wording of the current rules. -------------------- want daemons
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| Paraelix |
Jul 7 2012, 11:37 AM
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#20
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Member Group: Veteran Members Posts: 854 Joined: 25-January 10 Member No.: 8,815 |
How can you ignore the effects of Instant Death if they were not inflicted in the first place?
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