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> need advice to beat vampire counts, any advice would be cool
zac
post Jul 10 2012, 12:36 PM
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whenever i go to a warhammer event i alway hit a brick wall when i take on a vampire count player. My lizard alway kill a lots but they res back up faster then i can get an entire unit down grave guard in particular.

just looking for advice to help me fix this problem


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Nighteyes
post Jul 10 2012, 12:57 PM
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I always find death magic is good against vampires as they are an army reliant on characters.

Grave guard can be a tough unit to deal with, even without the tools they had in the previous book. Once thing lizardmen have is lots of cheap expendale units that are also very useful. Try and shoot/magic the grave guard as much as possible before you hit them in combat. Also try and use your chaff to get the grave guard in a position where you can hit them in the flank.
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Hoodling
post Jul 10 2012, 12:59 PM
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Concentrate your fire/efforts on specific units and kill them off completely before moving on. He can't raise back onto a unit when it's gone.


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stattic07
post Jul 10 2012, 01:09 PM
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take more magical defence, dont let them get off a heap of spells
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Mouseketeer
post Jul 10 2012, 01:27 PM
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Big thing is, they can heal units, but can't raise them from scratch (well, anything good anyways)
So make sure you target single units, and delete them completely, rather than whittling down a couple where possible..

death sniping is possible, BUT hard..

Cupped hands / bane head is always rude..

Single saurus characters should delete ethereal stuff - along with magic..

That's a start at least - I usually leave the grave guard till last - kill everything else, avoid them.. go for a last turn big win...

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Grovel
post Jul 10 2012, 01:34 PM
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Combat resolution. Abuse the stupidity of the Undead rule by using multiple combats to your advantage.
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zac
post Jul 11 2012, 02:24 PM
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thanks for the advice guys ill give it try when i take them on again


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AdamRasz
post Aug 13 2012, 12:02 PM
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As a vamp player, I find that my opponent usually just has to show up to defeat me...
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Oveja_Negras
post Aug 13 2012, 12:25 PM
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QUOTE(AdamRasz @ Aug 13 2012, 12:02 PM) *

As a vamp player, I find that my opponent usually just has to show up to defeat me...

LOL i think match ups are key for VC. I've found that VC dont like to be shot at. But once in combat they can just keep raising zombies back and ruin your day.
Redirect them, march block them and slow them right down. Pick your fights. And as everyone else has said: Concerntrate on wiping a unit before moving onto another, instead of splitting your attacks on multiple units.

armata_PDT_34.gif

Brent
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Belak
post Aug 13 2012, 04:34 PM
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Zac, you can't beat Vampire Counts. No one can, the best you can do is just concede and join their ranks.

Remember, every Zombie, Skeleton or Wight once belonged to an army whose general thought they too could win!


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Grovel
post Aug 13 2012, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE(Oveja_Negras @ Aug 13 2012, 12:25 PM) *

LOL i think match ups are key for VC. I've found that VC dont like to be shot at


Which armies do like being shot at?
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Brendan Black
post Aug 13 2012, 06:39 PM
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I would say vampires prefer being shot at quite a bit compared to most other armies as the vamps can just raise back any models they lose plus half their army is ethereal and can't be hit.
Clear exception being the terrorghiest its a massive arrow magnet.


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Current Wargaming Record
Vampire Counts 19 Wins 23 Losses
Dark Elves 41 Wins 5 Draws 65 Losses
Orcs and Goblins 26 Wins 5 Draws 42 Losses
High Elves 5 Wins 2 Draw 11 Losses
LotR 40 Wins 10 Draws 17 Losses

Vargoyle challenges empire general on griffon and comes out on top then chases him down.

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Astafas
post Aug 14 2012, 10:15 AM
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Are ethereals actually being used?

They seem like the less popular choice - mostly because they are so fragile... Most of the netlists I have seen are running with big units of zombies backed by a red fury deathstar.

Anyway I think the OP needs to sit back and think about:

a) the point at which undead units crumble (the Crumble Point where the number of kills you do means the unit is going to pop due to the combat res; so for 40 zombies its about 20 kills). Work it out for the biggest VC unit you want gone and make it happen.

b) range of enemy wizards to summon back troops (unless its the big spell its 6"... you can probably focus on dispelling an upjumped version if your target is out of range of the 6" spell for example and most vampire players hate 6 dicing spells...)

c) never fight Grave Guard within range of a VC wizard unless you can pop them. Thats playing the vampires at their own game - Grave Guard by themselves are hard but not that bad. With 5-10 or more coming back each turn they are a nightmare.

d) never fight a red fury vampire lord unless you have to or can bring serious force to bear that will kill him through combat res. its an 8-10 wound causing model...

e) undeads cant march unless they are Vamps or within 12" of the general. Coupled with the short range of ION generally the key is SPREAD THEM OUT if you can.

f) vampires and ethereals only get 1 wound back per ION so make good shooting / magic targets otherwise... they are also precious and some of the only things that actual fight good in a vampire army

g) Lore of Metal is nice against vampire BK buses.


My point is:

- try to get a unit outside of the 6" range of ION at its most basic (preferably further) and zap / shoot it down

- try to only fight units where you can crumble them with your good stuff either by multi charging them or shooting them down completely if within 6" range of ION

- multi turn fights outside of that 6" range arent so bad - you can win those if you keep wizards away. Shooting stuff outside of the 6" or 12" ION ranges can get the crumble point down so its easy to take those units

- try to use your weak units to hold up zombies, it doesnt take much to pin them in place. Remember outside of 12" they are slow. A salamander in the flank would do it I think?


I know its not as simple as that because a good general will probably hold their troops together, maneuver well yadda yadda yadda.

Seriously though the most frustrating thing for a vampire general (or at least when I have used them) is being charged by tonnes of troops - including Saurus - especially that blow through zombies to land in the flank of your skellies and them killing enough skellies to cause the unit with vampire lord of doom to pop no matter what he does (even at the about 8 wounds a turn he causes).

That turned out longer than I expected but I tried to think of stuff I hate as a VC player. armata_PDT_34.gif



*edited for spelling*

This post has been edited by Astafas: Aug 14 2012, 10:18 AM
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J_D
post Aug 14 2012, 10:31 AM
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So are magic weapons a requirement, in case your opponent has ethereals, or can you do without them?


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Blade_of_Apollo
post Aug 14 2012, 10:49 AM
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You need at least two of either magic missiles or magic weapons within your army imo.


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Brendan Black
post Aug 14 2012, 11:14 AM
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Even just a small magic missile makes things like Hexwraiths much less of a concern being T3 no armour smile.gif


--------------------
Current Wargaming Record
Vampire Counts 19 Wins 23 Losses
Dark Elves 41 Wins 5 Draws 65 Losses
Orcs and Goblins 26 Wins 5 Draws 42 Losses
High Elves 5 Wins 2 Draw 11 Losses
LotR 40 Wins 10 Draws 17 Losses

Vargoyle challenges empire general on griffon and comes out on top then chases him down.

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Blade_of_Apollo
post Aug 14 2012, 11:30 AM
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They have a 6+ save!!! Mounted!


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QUOTE(Chaplain_Fortis @ Jul 25 2014, 01:48 PM) *

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Preacher
post Aug 14 2012, 11:40 AM
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Hexwraiths are overrated, three single spirit hosts are almost a must have in any VC list imo. But most VC lists have some ethereal in them.


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