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> 40k Maybe?
Obeisance
post Mar 22 2017, 07:10 PM
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Well, I played 40k/WHFB for years. Like 10 of them leading up to 2010.

I dropped out of GW stuff entirely just before the 8th Edition Exodus and picked up Warmachine, which I played as my main game for years. I quit it for Malifaux and while Malifaux has a moderate and dedicated playerbase (and is a great game), I have trouble getting games at the times I'm free, mostly due to the hours I work. There's a GW store at my local shopping centre.

Cut to now. I've been reading Traitor Legions/CSM 6E trying to get a feel for stuff. I'm thinking about getting back into the game because it's still very popular. Apparently the last tournament was around 75 players.

I like to take games semi-seriously and I'm used to crunchy strategic games. Honestly, I'm kinda worried that I'll find 40k boring and frustrating. But I haven't played it in forever. And I was told to save my money because the game sucks by someone I know.

Like, the models are pretty and I like the fluff. My nostalgia goggles are strapped on.

...

What's the game like now? Do you find it challenging? Rewarding?

Is it even slightly balanced?

And above all, do you enjoy playing it?

This post has been edited by Obeisance: Mar 22 2017, 07:11 PM


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morsla
post Mar 22 2017, 08:11 PM
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I pretty much stopped playing 40k around 2006-ish (I mostly played WM after that), but got back into it last year. 7th Ed has been a lot of fun so far, and the Traitor Legions book really helps to make each of the legions feel like different armies.

There's some crazy stuff out there (an over-reliance on giant walkers and deathstar units), but not much of that in the groups I play with, or in the tournaments I've gone to. I like that the tournament scene has reached a point where there are enough players that you can fill an all-out WAAC event, or a fluff & narrative based event, so people can find opponents for the type of game they enjoy playing.

The model quality is probably the highest it's ever been, too. It's a good time to get back into it again.


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Obeisance
post Mar 22 2017, 08:40 PM
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What's the strategy system like?

I heard you basically get a deck of cards. D66. Get 3. You can discard one at the end of the turn or any you can't ever meet.

Does it work?

I'm used to the complexity of Malifaux, playing one strategy and two schemes. Trying to complete yours while stopping the enemy.


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Obeisance
post Mar 22 2017, 08:44 PM
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I'm looking at playing..

Black Legion, because the formations/etc are sweet. I like the scheme and feel. And the models will be the easiest to get secondhand. I think they're not as good as the other factions, but more flexible. Speartip/etc seems really great.

Death Guard, because they seem incredibly stupidly resilient. But they'll be expensive to get together and are apparently OP. I don't want to step back into the game and immediately be "that guy."

World Eaters, because first turn charges and a cool theme. They seem solid, but I have no idea if melee dudespam works in a shooting game.


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Starfire
post Mar 22 2017, 08:57 PM
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Just play whatever you enjoy.


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morsla
post Mar 22 2017, 10:11 PM
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I haven't played missions with the Tactical objectives yet (deck of objective cards, or a d66 roll) - they look interesting though. All the events I've played in have used standard missions so far.

Death Guard are a very, very solid list these days. Haven't played against World Eaters yet via their Traitor Legion list, but Black Legion can also potentially get first turn charges with the Raptor formation in a Speartip detachment.


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Obeisance
post Mar 22 2017, 11:16 PM
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Trying to make sense of the way army building is done.

Black Legion has to take 0-5 Command, 1+ Auxiliary, 1+ Core.

The only two choices for Core and Black Legion Warband and Hounds of Abaddon.

... really? I can't take Chaos Warband as my Core choice?

I kind of wanted to take Chaos Warband, Cult of Destruction and either Terminator Annihilation Squadron or Cyclopia Cabal.


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While we weaken, Cryx grows stronger." - King Leto Raelthorne
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ThatWallyGuy
post Mar 23 2017, 06:30 AM
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The current rule set is good fun. I do like the Mealstrom of war missions as it adds another level of thinking. You will generally not see them at events though, as it can be harder to manage.

In a balance sense.. the game is as balanced as it has always been. You.can easily have a balanced game with any faction. But there are a few builds in a few factions thay tend to break the balance.

In the tourney scene the Chaos Spacemarines are considered bottom teir. Even though they are simular to regular Spacemarines they tend to be more points heavy and miss out on some extra rules that their loyal brothers have access too, that being said Traitor Legions codex supliment has closed that gap slightly.



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Starfire
post Mar 23 2017, 07:10 AM
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Just about every tournament I've been to in NSW and ACT uses Maelstrom in some form, so it's probably a regional thing.


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QUOTE(Prince Raven @ May 11 2014, 07:43 PM) *

You know what? I give up, this is like playing chess with pidgeon. I'm going to leave while I still have enough brain cells to make the decision.

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ThatWallyGuy
post Mar 23 2017, 11:09 AM
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QUOTE(Starfire @ Mar 23 2017, 08:10 AM) *

Just about every tournament I've been to in NSW and ACT uses Maelstrom in some form, so it's probably a regional thing.


Do they? AI admit I havent gone to any events in the past year.. except for cancon friendly.. but I didnt think Cancon or Wintercon used it (could be wrong)

I know ITC has a really cut down version of it (which makes the top teir lists better)


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ĆON
post Mar 23 2017, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE(Obeisance @ Mar 23 2017, 12:16 AM) *

Trying to make sense of the way army building is done.

Black Legion has to take 0-5 Command, 1+ Auxiliary, 1+ Core.

The only two choices for Core and Black Legion Warband and Hounds of Abaddon.

... really? I can't take Chaos Warband as my Core choice?

I kind of wanted to take Chaos Warband, Cult of Destruction and either Terminator Annihilation Squadron or Cyclopia Cabal.


Any CSM Detachment/Formation can be a Black Legion Detachment if you follow the rules for choosing a Black Legion army.

The Grand Detachment is just a way to get extra Black Legion rules on top of what you already can get.

The formations you describe can be chosen as an army of themselves


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Blackhearts Reaver
post Mar 23 2017, 04:34 PM
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The main differences from mid 2000's to the current game, besides the Flyers, Giant robots and Gargantuan MC is the game is more deadly in all phases (except moving >> and that has more movement lol).

Psykic: Mainly buffs to make units much more powerful/tougher but there are some damaging powers. Or conjurations to get more units.

Shooting : many newer weapons have been added often with multiple profiles for better shooting at different targets. AP3 and AP2 firepower is more common so marines and termies are not safe either. Multi shot str5-8 has also become more available so just putting mass wounds on and watching them fail saves is a valid tactic in lists as well.

Assault: is way more deadly. Everyone in 2" gets full attacks and there are pile in's at every init step so a lot of models get to attack. Characters being able to challenge can also crush out some of a basic units h2h power too. (eg Init5 IC killing out PF sgts is big now). Assaults are usually over in 1-4 phases now there are no massive scrums that go on for an entire game (6-12 phases...).

It is usually harder to get into assault now (with overwatch fire before the charge) but a well planned assault or a list designed around it can butcher entire flanks much quicker than it used to. Almost as fast as a BA rhino rush in 3rd ed... wink.gif

Where I am Maelstrom objectives rarely get used. They are all just a bit too random.... On a scale of say 4-12 point is an average game, one player can be 6-0 up in turn 1 (litterally!!!!!! the worst game I have seen on random draw cards was a 9-1 by the end of turn 1) The game is effectively over. Not terribly fun for either player on just a random card draw. Play out the next 1hr and 50 mins for dice rolling. (with a good mate I play alot of games with if games become very onesided we call them at the end of a turn and just reset the game).

A more limited version of Maelstrom (the ITC has a more balanced system) has been used occasionally and it is a nice balancer to std game conditions. (obj=3pts, and the 3x 1pt std objectives (kill warlord, get into enemy deployment, first blood).

Cheap tarpit units that are made fearless (eg 20-30 cultists with an apostle) are often the answer to many death stars and giant things.... they usu manoeuvre for 1-2 turns then assault. if your tarpit can block/assault them in turn3 and hold them up for 2-3 turns(3-5 phases) you will have basically taken them out of the game. They will get out and maybe do 1 thing after that.

40K has not really changed that much. The more deadly game takes a little getting used to but it still requires the same strategic and tactical game as before. I find I can still put myself at and advantage of alot of opponents in deployment (still) and they are then still playing catch up (tactically). As long as you trade damage/units well you still end up ahead and hopefully on or near objectives. Just bear in mind movement of most things is alot faster (eg eldar jetbikes can move48" in 1 turn hell even a humble rhino can move 18" if it doesn't shoot to contest objectives) So positional play is key.... know where every unit can be by turn5.... don't wait around and then find yourself 2 movement phase away from an objective when you need to do it in 1...

So many players in the newer younger generation are still damaged focussed. It is always "look how much damage this unit can do....!!!" They throw away a 300pt unit to do its damage. If you can make the unit it destroys only a 150 pt unit (before you pulverise it) you are ahead...

and yes CSM are definitely not near the top feel free to take whatever.

This post has been edited by Blackhearts Reaver: Mar 24 2017, 12:05 PM


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Starfire
post Mar 23 2017, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE(ThatWallyGuy @ Mar 23 2017, 12:09 PM) *

Do they? AI admit I havent gone to any events in the past year.. except for cancon friendly.. but I didnt think Cancon or Wintercon used it (could be wrong)

I know ITC has a really cut down version of it (which makes the top teir lists better)


Yep.


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QUOTE(Prince Raven @ May 11 2014, 07:43 PM) *

You know what? I give up, this is like playing chess with pidgeon. I'm going to leave while I still have enough brain cells to make the decision.

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Obeisance
post Mar 27 2017, 10:00 PM
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So let's say you're taking a Black Legion army. You get Black Legion rules and restrictions.

As part of the rules, you have to select 1+ Core choices. Black Legion's Core choices are Black Legion Warband and The Hounds of Abaddon.

Can I take Chaos Warband as Core to get a heap of Objective Secured?

It was mentioned above that I could, but I can't find anywhere that gives me permission to do so.

How good is Objective Secured, anyway?

...

I'm leaning towards picking the game up again. I think I'm going to. Death Guard, World Eaters, Black Legion or... Tau, because Ripetides look sweet. Pity I know nothing about the game anymore. =p



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While we weaken, Cryx grows stronger." - King Leto Raelthorne
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ThatWallyGuy
post Mar 27 2017, 10:47 PM
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Thats fair.

So with the Traitor legion codex. You take the choas warband as your core (some of the other factions get a diffrent option) all models in their get that detahcment bonus (actually not a bad start choas build imo) then you pick atleast one of the auxiliary formations to get the full build bonus (But you dont need to, but can be nice)

Taking a legion restricts your character choice. In Traitors hate they have basically the same build for any choas spacemarine you like.

Death Guard are a reletivly Solid choice.. but you go for Regular choas marines over plague marines in deathguard because it is more cost effective.
That being said there are new Deathguard models being released very soon, and they do look pretty sexy


Objective Secured means that you will hold a objective over someone who doesnt have it. It can be very useful in objectove heavy games. When your opponet isnt taking Combined Arms Detachment or one of the very few others that give it

This post has been edited by ThatWallyGuy: Mar 27 2017, 10:50 PM


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Obeisance
post Mar 27 2017, 11:19 PM
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Let's say you're taking:

a) Chaos Warband
and
b) Terminator Annihilation Force

Both call for having a Lord. Do you need to take two Lords?


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While we weaken, Cryx grows stronger." - King Leto Raelthorne
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zed
post Mar 28 2017, 09:28 AM
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QUOTE(Obeisance @ Mar 28 2017, 12:19 AM) *

Let's say you're taking:

a) Chaos Warband
and
b) Terminator Annihilation Force

Both call for having a Lord. Do you need to take two Lords?

Yes. They are two seperate forces being combined as a list, so you have to meet all of the requirements for each force.


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