And now for the 2008 GT season, we can all work together to make them better Options

[nasher]

Prizes well let me tell you a lot of people would be more interested if they got something, even a blister just for showing up. I personnelly like trophies but a lot of people it's not so much a thing.
Is that why every year for the past 7 years we have in the last weekend in January two huge events for fantasy are held with over 160+ people attending. From all over Australia and NZ come to play WHFB, where they get more players attending then all the GT's combined. Something is wrong in .
Is it the rules pack, the cost, the prize support, not giving the people what they want, because people are voting with thier feet and traveling for example "to Melbourne" from Brisbane for Convic a 70+ sold out event, instead of going to the Brisbane GT held on the same weekend.
WHY??.
We all know why!, and now we look forward to a better and brighter rules packs/prizes/trophies/cost etc.. at future GW GT's.
Here's hoping anyway.

[Drummer]

Why can't we have trophies and prizes? I love the GT trophies this year, they are cool! I also liked the Melb GT's trophy from last year - forgeworld plagques were awesome! But many tournies manage to get you a trophy and a prize (at conquest I got their standard generic mascot on a plinth and a rather large gift voucher from Mil-Sims). Apoco-lisp is giving away a baneblade and a trophy or so I believe as well.

Really, the prizes don't have to be massive, its more the thought that counts. I really can't see the problem with a Italian Marble trophy inlaid with gold spelling out the winners name along with a Forgeworld Warlord Titan as being too much to ask for in a contemporary tourney setting.

Yup. Both then.
But it hasnt happened you get both .... yet...

[sanguinary lord]

I also should preface this by noting that I did not attend this years GT due to army commitments and the year before was the only GT I have attended. My opinions are therefore somewhat bias as I won the GT I entered so I naturally think it was great.

I think the GT missions should not be revealed until players arrive. Upon registration you should be given a sheet with the timings and the missions. That way you must choose an army that can face any mission.

I think power gaming should be avoided by limiting the importance on game results. I still think they should have the lion's share of the points attached to them but as this is GW crowning tournament the it must be a hobby based tournament. Army selection, sports, painting/modelling should all count towards the final winner.

Subjective adjudiaction(sic) needs to be stopped. Have a panel of three judges decide on painting scores. Like others have said if the GW staff are good enough to judge the golden daemons then they can judge the painting scores. Leave peer based for players choice.

As far as comp goes this will forever be the gaming communites version of the Israel and Palestine. Although I believe that peer based comp is possible I feel it opens up the oppourtunity for people to snipe people. I know that it puts a large drain on the TO but I feel that a member or two or three of the TO's staff should be jugding comp. This may be harder for small tournaments but for something like the GT, GW can find the staff.

Another important point I think needs to be made is accountability. GW must be open and accountable with their scores and their method of adjudication. At the end of a tournament have ALL the scores available. Don't hide scores. Don't just give the overall points. Be open and accountable and people will not feel cheated, nor will they have an excuse to run to the forums and spread rumors of fixing scores.

Make a decision and stick to it. If you are disallowing unpainted models then don't let people use them. It makes the TO look weak and worst of all it allows people to openly break the rules. The GT's must be run professionally or people will not support them.

Finally and MOST IMPORTANTLY of all...Make a deal with forgeworld to get the limited release models that are available at gamesdays and make them available to Aussie gamers. If you force gamers to buy the cool models from ebay the why would gamers not buy all their models from ebay. If GW wants the gaming community to support them, then GW should support the gaming community.

~Adam~

[Lonestar]

Here Here!

[Buddha]

Just on a note about prizes though... I wonder what the actual cost price of the GW stuff is, I mean seriously, other events pay 50% on there prizes when supported by GW iirc? i mean surely prizes from GW themselves could be given out and written off without too much loss?

It could add to the spectacle a bit more.


Allthough, never get rid of the trophys... back when I used to win a tournament in SA there was usually no trophy, I wouldnt mind a few more to my other assortment of trophy's

Tom

[GT]

55% (i.e. a 45% discount) Tom - they changed it a couple of years ago, made it the same discount that independant stockists get the product for.

[thereisnosaurus]

I believe GW's disinclination to include model/money prizes is more one of principle than one of cost. They believe, as far as my discussions with the various folks who run the gigs have revealed, that the inclusion of prizes detracts from the friendly competition atmosphere of tournaments and pushes the win at all costs idea. If anyone's gone to a UK GT they'll know what I mean, the day our tournaments are like that will be the day I stop attending. Believe me, the australian GT's are the best in the world (I've been to both UK and US ones as well) so far as atmosphere and enjoyment are concerned.

However, I think GW US has come up with a very nifty idea in the hardboyz tournaments they're starting to hold. The aim is to win, no questions asked, no sports, no comp, only battle scores. I know there are plenty of people who like to play like that, but when they mix with more casual players, neither enjoys themselves. the Hardboyz tourneys may give those hardcore WAAC players an environment in which to test their skills against like minded, equally tactical and scheming players without giving others a sour taste at the pasting they recieved... GW AU could take a leaf out of that book, I think.

As far as GT prizes are concerned, I'm not sure if they're doing this still, but the AU GT I attended had signed limited run prints as prizes. This was a brilliant idea- it's a prize with a monetary value, artistic value, collectable value and acts as a trophy all at the same time, yet it's not something people can actually 'use' so it's less likely that people will fall into the win at all costs mentality just to get them. It's a brilliant prize for those dedicated to the hobby enough to win a GT.

[Buddha]

As far as GT prizes are concerned, I'm not sure if they're doing this still, but the AU GT I attended had signed limited run prints as prizes. This was a brilliant idea- it's a prize with a monetary value, artistic value, collectable value and acts as a trophy all at the same time, yet it's not something people can actually 'use' so it's less likely that people will fall into the win at all costs mentality just to get them. It's a brilliant prize for those dedicated to the hobby enough to win a GT.

They did have the prints for a prize 3 years ago, but the last 2 GT's have been trophy only.

I was happy, got one of the prints myself, very nice stuff!

Tom

[ArchonCryx]

Yeah the prints were the awesome - I managed to pick one up at KF a couple of years ago. It's still greatly cherished and is my fondest prize. WHile I like getting miniatures I admit I don't focus on them in the same way I do that print which has pride of place in the living room. They were great prizes!

This post has been edited by ArchonCryx: Oct 2 2007, 12:59 PM

[thereisnosaurus]

the other great thing about them is it doesn't actually cost games workshop that much to make them, so they're brilliant prizes, which are dirt cheap and don't encourage powergaming (coz powergamers tend not to care about those sorts of things anyhow). It's a pity they're no longer doing it , that had to be one of the best things GW has so far come up with on the GT circuit...

[Lonestar]

There is a misconception here, prizes do not encourage "power gaming", majority battle points encourages "power gaming" as they dont need to be a nice oponent, they dont need to stick to fielding a "fair and ballanced" army, hell they dont even have to paint there models well, if at all.

The Best General Prize is for the power gamer.

And thats it.

The currect system for the GT has been designed so "power gamers" have the greatest chance to win as the magority of the points earnt come from battle points and for MOST players, they will only score battle points.

The GT has become a "power gaming" event. There is no need for GW to run a battle points only tournament as they already have one. While, sure if there are 50 people in attendance, 5 may gain a bonus point or 2 and 5 may lose some points, this is an abberation. Combine this with inept TO's, poor missions and very open tables, you have a poorly run and poorly scored tournament.

The facts speak for themselves.

[ArchonCryx]

I certainly agree GW don't need another gameplay event b-c that is quite true, the '07 GTs very much resembled a 100% gameplay tourny to my eyes. And as far as the top/bottom 10% modifiers go, that seems a normal thing to do at a 100% gameplay event too.

There's nothing wrong with that per se.

I keep coming back to it - it's our lack of a premier hobby event that we were looking to the GTs to fulfill around here. When a GT doesn't do that it leaves many of us a little unfulfilled.

And I frankly find it difficult to understand the GW prize stance. Fair enough trophies are cool, and I just loved that print I got at KF 05. But how much would it increase the costs to also include some product prizes? If the top gamers really prefer trophies, then how about modest product prizes for some of the also-rans? Even a randomised raffle, like they did at 2004 GT.

Considering the awesome prize support GW offers the casual TO it comes as a bit of a shock to see no product on offer at a GT and I thought it could compliment the trophies.

*shrug* but as Lonestar alludes, it's not the prizes that cause the fuss it was the composition restrictions (or more the lack thereof).

As one of our best painters/all round hobbyists amongst the very regular gamers in Sydney I think he has some very pertinent points to make. Comparing some of the awesome GTs of the past also makes me nostalgic for the days when ppl travelled to Sydney from across the Tasman and the Nullabor for these...


It's less about prizes or trophies, more the hobby mix.

And I definitely agree you won't keep power gamers away due to a prize policy. Most of us who desire to win a GT just wanmt the braging rights - Im sure I'd try just as hard to win a GT where the only prizes wasa "well Done!" Certificate....

People tend to attend a GT because they think it's a pinnacle event. Only the very best private events should even come close to a GT. I'm afraid if the trend continues the GTs risk becoming "just another tournament" instead of a peak showcase of our hobby.

This post has been edited by ArchonCryx: Oct 5 2007, 03:14 PM

[Maraxus]

Definately would be good if GW could give out some more "creative" prizes. The Prints are good. Maybe some of the forgeworld or warpartefacts gear would be nice too.

Some of the campaign or art books from Black Library would be nice (not everyone's cup of tea I would imagine though).

On another note, it would be nice to see a KF style tournament up here in sunny queensland.