A friend of mine and I have been discussing the finer points of the Derivan Paints lately, and he came up with a great idea! If each of the users of the paint come on here and post what they think of each of the colours and how they react when used.

As those of us with some experience with them have come to know, they don't all behave exactly the same. Some are thin and cover is a little transparent, others are very opaque and cover well. Some require different attention to use properly.

I think this would be a great idea to put together, and if you think so too, post your experiences and I'll update the info!

THIS IS NOT A GRIPE ABOUT DERIVAN MINIS....please post info on how you have found the best ways to use these paints or even add to the info here so we can all get better at using the range.

My experience:

First up, one thing I have noticed is that the derivans don't excell at drybrushing, but they do it if you get the technique right. I find it's more of an edgebrushing/wetbrush than a traditional drybrush method to get the right results. A bit more precision but that's what a lot of experienced painters want....I believe...that's what I want anyways....


Spear Brown - Paint is thick and needs watering down, pigment is fairly transparent and requires more coats than some other paints I have used (Vallejo namely). Not real good for drybrushing but if you "wetbrush" with it being a little transparent will allow the undercolour to come through nicely allowing a blend of sorts.

RAF Blue - Like shadow grey. Covers well, requires a little thinning. Covers with 2 or 3 coats like most paints. Washes well, even when pretty thin.

Confederate Grey - Very similar in consistency to spear brown.

Battleship Grey - Same consistency as Confederate grey and Spear brown. The difference between confederate and Battleship is not very much.

Silver - Very very thick. Covers very well, although a little bit fiddly to get the consistency right. I probably need a bit more practice or advice on how to get the best results out of this one. The silver is a bit dark, sort of bluish. You'll want a lighter silver to highlight this one.

Gunmetal - This paint is actually a bit underrated. Now it is not the same kind of paint as the citadel boltgun metal or the vallejo whatever. Its very transparent, not as thick as the silver and very cool to use when used right. Here is the trick. Undercoat the item the colour you want, ie dark brown, black or whatever. Then do the coat of Gunmetal over the top. You may need a couple of coats. The gunmetal takes on the colour attribute of the base colour when applied correctly! Then use the silver over the top as normal! Very different than what most expect but very nice.

Flesh - sort of like elf flesh. A little transparent but not as bad as spear brown.

Is there not anyone else with some experience to add to this? I know it would be helpful to me in my quest for painting expertise..... :-)

Mark Fenlon gave me a tip for any paints yaers ago. He changes his undercoat to white for some browns, reds and light colours. (He did Art at school and has always done this)

So when he paints his American civil war cavalry, the horses are all undercoated white and the men undercoated in black with some parts in white.

I bought an military painting magazine late last year and it had a large 1/48th scale plastic Hetzer kit being painted using Vallejo colours. They spray undercoated the kit in white undercoat first.

So I've taken to undercoating in white again and the black out areas where I want to have the black shading.

I've airbrushed using the RAF blue over a white undercoat and it came up fine.

When I was a kid I never undercoated so I tried this on some 1/72nd scale plastic tanks.

I've brush painted directly on plastic (no undercoat) the dark olive. The first coat was streaky and very very scary. The second coat looked great.
Oh I also tend always thin out the paint a little, I have made the thinners in advance and put it in an eye dropper bottle I bought from the chemist..

***
My cousin who makes plastic kits and has been airbrushing for years, converted over to Derivan minis after using Tamiya for over 40 years. However it took him a while to be able to work out the differences in the paint. He loves the Battleship grey ( He has the whole Japanese WWII fleet in plastic kits on display at his home)

He airbrushed the battleship grey successfully first time and that sold him.

He then had trouble airbrushing with the Sherwood green and was very unhappy with it until he used a white undercoat.

Since then he went on to air brush some 1/72nd scale tanks in olive green and they look great.

The big difference for him was the thinners, 9 parts water , 1 part surface tension breaker). He had to buy specialist Tamyia thinners before. The money he now saves, he spends on more kits.

***
The gun metal is the weakest of the Derivan range. Mattisse are aware of that as well and have said they are going to have a look at it.

I added some black to my gun metal and made it darker. The black also improved the coverage.

Prior to that I use to make my own gun metal by mixing black with the irridescent medium. I've done that for years as I've used some Matisse product for over 10 years back when I had Ral Partha Paints.
(The drying retardent and a spread medium for over 10 years. The irridescent medium for about 4 years.)

***
WSGS now has an airbrush for members and vistors to use at our club. My cousin chris is there generally once a month to give tips and hep with the airbrushing.

I'll see what Mick Sellman (Micks Metal Models) has to add as he usings them as well. I'll speak to Mark for more tips and his experience and Gary from the club. His dragon diorama (on the matisse web site is all Derivan mini and other Matisse products. He also built the new club terrain table using Derivan Minis and Matisse products.

**
This is a great idea and I'll get Matisse to look for the constructive comments so they improve as they go. :-D :idea:

Hey Ty, some good info there. A friend of mine also said that if you have a problem getting good coverage with white paints, you can actually add just one small drop of black to a large batch (I think about 10ml or so) of white. It makes very little difference to the colour (slightly very slightly off-white/grey) which is only noticeable beside bright white, but makes all the difference to the coverage.

If you try this, be really gradual and use tiny tiny amounts of black to the white unless you can find a website to give you the exact mix....I'd hate to be responsible for you stuffing up an entire batch of white coz i couldn't remember the quanitities accurately!!! :-(

Hi Guys,

I have been using the derivans for a fair while and enjoying them immensly. I tried to use the metallic medium last night but i had alot of trouble getting it out of the tube, as the nozzel seems to be too small? Did you guys cut it back ? any hot tips?

I've had a similar problem with a different colour in the Derivans. The issue was the cap had not been screwed down quite far enough and let some air into the nozzle. I then had to get a paperclip into the nozzle from underneath to clear it out (while the screw top was open as far as it would go...).

It was caused by a bit of dried paint in the opening.

Perhaps this is something that has happened to yours, or maybe the nozzle on yours needs widening (a bit of plastic flash in the moulding or something). If it's not the usual Derivan paint bottle, then I don't know what else the problem might be....maybe a stack of pigment in the top from sitting upside down or something.

I find that if you give them a really, really good shake, it can unblock the nozzle.

The metallic has a different nozzle, a thin tube, it is sealed at the top aside from the tiny straw.

I think i had a plug stuck in the top of it, once i squeezed hard enough it squirted a massive pile on the table

I can confirm combining it with white paint can really put a nice sheen on snow bases.

I've been told by a retailer that the 36ml bottle size is too big, they aren't getting frequent sales (like other paint brands that hold 12ml or 17ml)
So they are dropping the Derivan Minis in favour of vallejo.

Vallejos a fine imported paint with a HUGE range, It is already an establish range so there is more demand, but I found this disappointing.

I told Matisse and they said the money you save using their paints allows the customers to spend more on miniatures, so they don't see the issue.

I find I'm using the Derivan minis on buildings and terrain as well, I don't see the 36ml as being a problem BUt then I'm a consumer.. I'm more willing to mix and match, having bought some empty bottles (the retailers can order empty bottles from Matisse)


I don't believe in supporting bad Australian product, but I think the Derivan minis are a good paint. 36ml bottles are an advantage, I'd rather save the money for more miniatures and models any day.

Still it is a commerical decision and I don't run the business. I have a lot of time for the people there, I just wish the decision was different.

Just a reflection on the divide between a consumer and commerical decisions I guess.

That's sad to hear. I've also been using my Derivans for terrain - much higher quality than the bulk paints I've used in the past, and much cheaper than any of the other miniature paints out there. It's also a quick way of ensuring that those camo cloaks match the scenery... use the same pot of paint for both

The blues and greens I've used on water features (painting the bottom of lakes and streams) have quite vivid colours. My only complaint so far has been with their black paint, and it's a small quarrel at that - it's much more matte than most of the colours I use, so it actually looks grey in comparison to some of the darker colours. Nothing a good coat of varnish doesn't fix, though.

I have to admit that they have been disappointing .... the coverage and pigment density is at times average and this isnt offet by the large 36mm size for me... Vallejo are by far the best paints available. I do use my vast range of Derivan paints but for terrain purposes or for mixing in with vallejo colours.... for a top piece you have to use the finest paints and unfortunately for me they aren't derivan

Gav

PS the surface tension breaker is da bomb

Hey Gav, you've obviously got a few colours in the Derivan range....could you share some thoughts on the quality of the individual colours? i know some of them are not as pigmented as others...can you advise which ones have better coverage than others and what colours they are?

Maybe....

There major selling point is the price/size compared to other similar products.. for me as a painter its the quality that counts...Its very much like brushes... I use WN Series 7 on almost everything now even at $25 - $35 a brush because they are the bomb, last longer yadda yadda yadda Too me paint is the same.. I will use the best no matter what the cost...

Cheers

Paint perference is very personal, one person's poison is another person cure. I've seen very good results from good painters with many different paints, going back to enamels. (I'm old) I look at Mark's Roberts or Andrew's miniatures or Rachel Borthwick's miniature on the Matisse page and clearly good results are achieveable with the Derivan range.

But everyone is different so our preferences will differ as well.

If Derivan Minis had not come along I would be painting with Matisse Flow range of Artists paints and Vallejo (of which I own about 18 colours which Derivan don't produce, they are a fine paint, just expensive but then I think Derivan minis are comparable in quality)

My preference for Derivan stems from the fact they will listen to constructive input and have proven themselves ready to adjust and improve their product based on input from the people in the hobby.

Part of this is because they are locally manufactured. Part is because they sort advice from painters and people in the hobby from the beginning. (Andrew Lum, Robert Sakaluk, Mark Fenlon to name a few)

I encourage any constructive feedback for Matisse to read, and I'm aware that they have been taking constructive feedback to improve their product.

Oh I saw this on the miniatures page about MOAB


"Andrew Lum, Victoria Lamb and Myself (Robert Sakaluk) will be doing painting and sculpting seminars there, also judging the painting comp this year. Dave from Mattise will be there too (I think) and they are once again giving away lots of paints as prizes."


Note I will not be at MOAB this year, the first time in about 10 years that I will not be there.

Enjoy the hobby that is why we do it after all.

regards

I spent a fun weekend repainting my chipped and battered lizards with my derivans.

My complaints are that they are very matt, not just the black, I was primarily working with the red and the greens and there is a big difference. I will need to find some more varnish.

The Metallics arent great, my gold and silver seem to be almost unmixed, despsite shaking the hell of out of them, they are only usable when i mix them with a small amount of black paint to increase the coverage. I will be picking up some Vajellos, or even goign back to GW for the shiny stuff.

I bought the full set a while ago, but i havent had time to really cut my teeth on them, so it is still a learning excerise. The majority of the time working with them is fine, just make sure you water them down.

The separation of the piogment and carrier fliud is very pronounced with the metallics. That was surprising because when we first tested the paints that wasn't an issue. My favourite colour being the light gold.

Last night I picked out all the smallest marbles from my son's collection.

I forced one marble though the neck of each bottle. (Got splashed with carrier fluid, I added some of the thinners I had made to make up for the loss of carrier fluid)

I put the eye dropper cap back on and gave it a shake.

I still had some carrier fluid caught in the eye dropper cap but once I cleared that, the paint had remixed and was back to what I remembered it should be.

I hope this helps


Ideally we need a glass ball about a bit smaller than a small marble so that it fits through the neck of the bottle easier.

I still maintain that the metallic when mixed are some of the best I have used but this separation of the carrier fluid and the pigment is a real pain.

Thanks for the tip, i will have a look around for a few glass balls today...

Why glass? Why not a ball bearing? can't see there'd be any reactivity issues, is there another reason?

I was thinking a ball bearing but i am scared there would be some colour problems? I will check that out tomorrow, my local art store does have glass beads that would solve the problem.

What a great idea! I don't see that there would be any reactivity problems with a good quality high tensile ball bearing as they already use them in pressure packs.

I'm gonna try this out and see if it helps me to get better results with some of the other colours I have too!

Since reaper paints aren't available at my local, I started using Derivans. But lately I tried vallejo and found them superior. Coverage is much better, more colour choices. The only problem is the stupid bottle. The derivans had screw off lids. I think I'll have to cut the pointy nozzle off my vallejo's so I can dip (I hate pouring paint, it's a waste).

I don't know if I'd agree about vallejo having superior coverage, I've only got bout half a dozen of each, and no direct colour comparisons, but the Derivans I find very good. In actual fact the 3 paints I'm having the greatest coverage problems with is Vallejo golden yellow, blood red and a Reaper Blue.

The derivans I've got include some greens (GI, Webbing and Drab), Night Blue, Dark Chestnut and Bronze,and I'm very happy with ever one of them. Agree with the seperation in the metallic but that's out weighed by the small particle size which I think makes a smoother finish than a lot of other brands, Can't make a direct comparison to Vallejo's on this point but have used metallics from Ral Partha's, GW, Tamiya (acrilic and enamel) and Revell.

@ Gop: decant in to little bottles?

I've been dissapointed with the Sherwood green. It's very streaky despite lots of shaking.

Perhaps we should do a vote for individual Derivan paints kinda like the good traders topic. a plus for a good experience and an exclamation mark for an issue. Might Look something like:

GI Green > ++++!!

The above would mean 4 positive and 2 issues. Would allow another forum for feedback for Derivan, I'd like them to have a strong future.

If so, for my part:

GI Green +
Webbing Green +
Night Blue +
Bronze + (When thoughly mixed, aggitator suggested)
Olive Drab +
Dark Chestnut +

My Cousin Chris had problems airbrushing with Sherwood green looking streaky, he resolved it after undercoating with white and i think 2-3 thin airbrushed coats of sherwood green. (The first coat still looked streaky)

I finished putting small marbles in the metallics yesterday (quick visit to the shops to buy some marbles as my son caught me taking two of his.)

I also made up some of the thinners Derivan recommend for fine detail (9 parts water, one part surface tension breaker) I added that to the metallics to thin it down as well as a marble.)

Also earlier in the forum topic I menioned I had added black to the gun metal. That improved coverage greatly as well as the colour. (gun metal should be dark in my books) I used it on a clear plastic canopy (that goes over the cockpit) to show the metal frame which holds the glass in place. It covered the clear plastic well, no streaking, which is a great improvement on the original Derivan mini gun metal. (Also keep in mind with the clear plastic I didn't use an undercoat, I painted the "adjusted " gun metal straight in it.)

Oh the light gold once mixed properly is a 4 plus ++++

If you are looking for a good yellow, the Derivan Mini INSIGNIA YELLOW has great coverage for a yellow. Just be wary of the first batch, they tended to dry out, although Derivan have been replacing those that did.
They first batch had too much pigment in it.


Hope that helps

Ty, maybe try getting your cousin to put a reall small amount of black into the sherwood green and see if it helps with coverage there too? Maybe that will solve mr problem?

Insignia Yellow hmm, cheers for the head's up. Might have to pick one up.

I have used some glass beads in the paints that are a bit iffy and much better results, yay!

I'm rather enjoying using this range. I'm only getting into it slowly, a pot or two at a go, but look forwards to a larger collection with time. I really like the matt effect for the realistic look you can get. In metallics, I've only got silver and I can't say I've really worked out how to get the best out of it yet. I'm getting good skin tones through blends of light chestnut and flesh. I'm trying to get a few projects going using just Minis, to see the total effects.

I think Maerlyn has a good idea about rating each of the paints with your experience. If more of you could put your ratings in, I'll work on putting more info into the top of this with edits.

I trialed the Matt on Monday night, some figures came out very Matt, a few Satin so I emailed Matisse.

this is the response.

The Matt Varnish, it does need to be stirred well.

Basically, all varnishes start their lives as gloss varnish, and then we add matting agents to dull them. The more agent, the duller it is. So, my guess is that it wasn't mixed enough when you did this - so you may not have got the full matt effect either.

If you mix it again and apply another coat, it should work well. It is thicker than the solvent based varnishes, but can be thinned with up to equal parts water to create a very thin coat (however, you will need at least 2 coats if you thin it this much).

The gloss one will be an extremely versatile product which can also be used to prepare glass and other surfaces prior to painting, as a glazing medium, decoupage glue, as well as giving you a great gloss varnish finish.

Mixed together with Matt, you can create your own Satin varnish to whatever gloss level you require.

I'm glad this topic was started; I just looked a little closer at my paints and realised I don't have silver but actually have the infamous gunmetal. This makes me a lot more confident to get other metals and use them for my next project.

Here is a sample of one coat of Spartan red straight on a black undercoat.



That is very good coverage for a red over black.

cheers

I'm painting my Task Force Ranger Cadians for Cancon06 with Derivans. I bought the entire range a couple of months ago as part of this project. So far I've only done some of the basing (Chestnut Ink over the sand and gravel, Forest Green around the base edges for contrast) and I'm happy with the results and their performance. Much better than the GW paints I've been using.

Of course, it's early days yet, but I'll report as I go along, and pics once I'm done. I expect to turn out a superior paint job, and so far the Derivans look like the business.

I've got a number of the paints now, so I have enough to do most of the eldar I am currently painting mostly in Derivans. The only colours I have had difficulties with are the Spear Brown, Desert Sand and the Battleship Grey and Confederate greys. I find the consistently a bit different to work with and difficult to drybrush with.

I have found the Derivan White to be far superior to all other whites I've used, which is really amazing, and the Black is definitely on par with Vallejos and GW paints. All in all, I'm starting to enjoy using these paints. One colour I do think they need to add to the range is a lighter silver than the one they have at the moment. The current silver is a bit too bluish for my taste as the final silver, but I guess this is where the iridescent medium comes in.

OT:

Where are these paints sold?

S

Bought mine in an art store

I ordered mine from an Oxford Art Supplies shop in Sydney, mail order. Good prices and good service. Go to the website for Derivan and it shows you a list of retailers, that's where I went.