So after a few games played, a few watched and much, much list building I have some thoughts on the new codex. In no particular order...

Please note these are just my thoughts, you may not agree with them but I wish to promote a good discussion.

Also note, despite me pointing out a lot of thing I believe are bad/could be better, I do enjoy this codex. It will still provide a good challenge to use and as a player o the old necrons, I enjoy this codex.


The ranged anti-tank is extremely limited and unreliable, where there is reliable anti-tank it is either far too costly or too easy to kill (or both).

Anti-Infantry fire power can be found in droves.

Quantum shield rarely comes into play, once that vehicle is penetrated the chances are it is going to die before being reduced to AV11.

Annihilation Barges 'should be' fast to be usable, or at least the destructor needs o be 36" range. It is very easy for an enemy to avoid.

The Doomsday Ark is too expensive for what it is capable of. The AP1 points to a tank hunter, but the gun is not ordnance, nor is it S10, the move and fire rule becomes a massive liability from turn 2 on wards.

Killing Terminators is still extremely difficult, there are units that will do it, but they are generally over priced.

I have a feeling Tremor Crons (Tremor Staves + Orikan + worldscape) will be a common build out of this codex. It is effective (Orikan not required...) and gives you a lot more shooting time.

Some of the better weapons suffer due to AP-, and to swap them out for a weapon with an AP costs you strength.

If you don't base your list solely on Gauss, it becomes very limited.

Doomscythes have potential, but not having quantum shielding is the real ball breaker. Their cost is also considerably high when compared to other unit of similar ability (Ravager, Vendetta etc).

Deathmarks are a solid choice, however expensive.

The Special Characters all lack something, weather it be a res orb, phaeron or an Invul. All of them are missing 1 thing that would make hem far more worth while. Such as Trazyn not being a phaeron, or Imotek not having a Res-Orb. The Cryptek character not being able to take a unit of crypteks seems very out of place too.

Command Barges, if they live, are insanely good with a Warscythe lord in them.

Triarch stalkers, whilst slightly over costed are a solid choice.

Scarabs are easy for an opponent to avoid. Their main ability to kill tanks can be nullified easy with some infantry (generally loosing combat against MEQ and not doing much other wise) or by moving the tank they will go after over 6". I am almost considering not using them simply because a competent opponent will make them next to useless.

Wraiths are reasonable, but to make them so they require whip coils. They cannot take on Dedicated Assasult units reliably but are fantastic for taking out objective sitting units like scouts or other weakened scoring units. They are also very good for killing lone characters.

All units pay out the ass for Reanimation, but it makes little difference I have found so far, since your army is generally lower on number than the average marine army, 1/3 models is not a large amount.

The available combos are powerful, but are either very expensive or very hard to maintain.

Taking any additional support (crypteks, lords) for units, beco0mes very expensive very quickly. 65 point to get a res-orb on the table minimum is quite possibly too much considering they now only support the unit they are in.

All of the fun wargear (Arrow, Labrynth etc) costs far too much considering how situational it is or the chance that it won't do anything.

Monoliths are a reasonable choice. Though their reliance on getting close with their lack of the old Living Metal rule is a liability.

C'tan are quite useful, but possibly over priced for their stat line. Some of the costing on their abilities seem oddly priced as well.

Many rules are 'overwritten' to the point of abiguity. Some of the issues, I hope the FAQ will clear up without making the codex worse, but actually more useful in some areas (what am I saying, its a xenos dex...).



Overall, I feel the codex will go the way of the Tyranids. Many people will pick it up for a brief period and than realise it is difficult to make work, going back to their other army of choice with a few dedicated players keeping with the codex.

I'm enjoying it, i'll just have to live with the fact that if my opponent has assault terminators in a land raider I'm pretty much boned.

I havent played matches, but based on my look at the codex...

C'Tans are definately over priced. Compare it to a talos, or even a trygon, and your not getting much bang for your buck.

I've been using beastmaster squads a bit in recent times, and they are a fairly difficult unit to use, and i can imagine scarabs are quite similar. But i think they are still a solid choice in a imoteck army, because night fight helps their survivability greatly, and oddly enough they are some of the best anti-av14 necrons have.

The necrons seem to have resiliance, but not much firepower.

As a dark eldar player im confident night scythes are the way to go, but it doesnt mean they will be easy to use.

I think necrons deserve decent comp scores that will reward good players.

Doom scythes in 5th will be only useful with night fight , which means imo and solar flare. And necrons will hate dark eldar and space wolves. I can't see necrons competing at all with dark eldar at all. My intial feeling is dark eldar get more firepower and more cc potential for less. More fragile, granted, but considering night shields + necrons small range i cant see them doing well against dark eldar.

I am going to try a game or 2 with them tomorrow and will see how it goes.



really? i dont see that as a problem, terminators would definately be one of the few assault units i dont mind my necrons being in CC with.

Ive used necrons twice since the new codex has been released and i have played 2 marine armies, grey knights storm raven spam and chaos marines mech and im two for two in wins

Then you havent constructed a balanced list

Necrons can deal with Assault Terminators in a land raider; you just have to cover that weakness in list construction (stalkers, scarabs, Lycheguard, etc)

Thats something I can't justify.

40 points for those guys is alot, compared to what else costs 40 points... Ogryn, Terminators etc. Its just too much. Basically like paying for an Old Pariah without all the funky rule.

I'd agree with you, statistics would agree with you. But I've played a couple of games and watched a single 5 man squad take out large chunks of my army with little to no casualties, so I figure, statistics is clearly wrong and it's par for the course.

Most games I should be right though I think.

A list I gave a try the other night worked pretty well though vs mech eldar in a kp mission. Damned night spinners.

Overlord with warscythe in command barge.
Retinue of 5 Destructionteks.

Overlord
Retinue of 5 destructionteks, 5 lords, 4 with 2+ save and 1 with res orb.

5 units of 5 warriors.

2 Stalkers.

C'tan with worldscape and spirit fingers.

I attached 2 Destructionteks to each of the 5 man warriors (1 from each court). And ran the lords as a single unit with the overlord with no upgrades.

Interesting. I doubt it'd do anything to a Land raider though

Not really, Im a fan of the 45pt versions of them. T5, S5 with the ability to get guys from the royal court bringing in a hidden warscythe and res orb (with maybe a Eldritch Lance and associated wargear.)

Yes its expensive but its a deadly unit that is very resilient. Against Terminators they have a 4+/4+ save.

Need to play with a unit however but I think it could be a good counter assault unit.

Whats your last name again?

Sure... If you dont want other stuff in your army...

Praetorians are interesting me, going to have to get them some more use. Points cost is prohibitive though.

Last I checked; 300 - 350pts wasnt an entire army...

No you are correct. But many of the other useful items in the codex take a fair chunk of points. Consider that your HQ and a reaonable troops base is ~600, the point remaining for more useful items is very limited. and when you spend upwards of a 1/3 of your remainder on a sub-par for points unit, well you have even less to play with.

Preatorians/Lych Guard are simply not worth the 40+ points they cost per model. Add on top of that the minimum 65 points to give them 4+ WBB (or for Preatorians the 155 for the D-lord to attach).

I2 with no way for that to be buffed (without the use of SC's, andeven then its only I3). No Grenades, 1-2 Attacks and only S5 (7 with Scythe).

Not worth 40 points each. Not by a long shot.

The Praetorians - definitely agree; esp with only 1 base attack.

While you have more experience with the book I still do like the Lychguard; even if it is to my detriment when trying to construct a list

I love for Lychguard to be good... My Pariahs want to see the light of day again

I think Lychguard are good if that helps.

Solid post Jeff.... something about the codex wants me to make things work (Doomsday Ark/Destroyer Lord) cause of the cool models/fluff.

I feel that Tesla weaponry is cool just in the potential of how many saves you will make an enemy make. And its lightening bolts man!

I still maintain we need to give the codex a few more games before I can pass judgement....

Still, I want to give the double doomsday ark list a go (Hell even triple....)

Good thoughts but I think you're being just a little too pessimistic. I do agree new Necrons aren't a super epic point and click codex, but it seems to be much more interesting than the old one to me. I agree it'd still deserve decent baseline comp score in general.

To go through it:


Really? I disagree actually. Unless by ranged you mean must be able to kill tanks from ~45".
One counter point is the extra durability Reanimation gives you- your anti tank gun will generally be available to fire longer than a marine's one(as his ablative wounds last longer), and he even has a chance of firing it again after getting himself killed... . Of course you can't have the level of anti tank vanmilla marines can, particularly given your next point. As well, you dismiss Gauss far too much in this statement.

I think it's prt of the balanceing act to keep the army in step with the others that they don't offer you many good long ranged options. You have the resilience to move up and bring shorter ranged weaponary to bear and it's always been a Necron thing.



In this game, many of the things that will be penetrating AV13 are some sort of melta anyway, and that brings a 66% of destruction anyway...



You diss the Doomsday then complain you can't kill Terminators! It has a 72" range... it can hide in the corner and pivot to cover much of the battlefield. I agree it isn't really an anti-tank weapon, it's AT ability is secondary to it's primary role of dealing with Terminators and the like.
Still, you can also try the tried and true tactic many gunline armies use and keep a counter-attack unit in the back of your lines to help deal with those nasty terminators. Try Lychguard with a ResOrb/Warscythe Lord/Overlord (Both wopuld be better- except Overlords ride Command Barges )Also the Command barge is awesome, and that'll help keep the terminators at bay.



I think Tesla has it's uses, completely awesome vs infantry, and at S5 it's still at least able to suppress light vehicles with enough shots to hurt them.



I don't understand this statement.



They are a similar price to a VoidRaven, you aren't comparing the right units and/or expecting the kind of love Imperial armies get.



Death,marks are great and might be well costed (yet to see them used to full effect but wounding on 2+ with a sniper rifle sounds scary)

Characters seem expensive, but at least 3 of them also seem to be very handy. I think we'll see a lot of Imhotek.



+1 to Command Barge and Stalker. Completely disagree about the Scarabs - you will need to practice with them a little, but being beasts makes them actually quite difficult to hide from - a 19-24" threat radius gives you massive reach. Scarabs are your #1 anti tank and are simply the *must have* unit of the codex.



Again, I disagree with your negative vibe. IN the end, your final statement sums it all up perfectly - as Xenos you simply have to expect a bit of rough with the smooth. We'll never be the good guys, so we may not get the codex love of Imperials. But at least *all* our games are characterful and not just another "training mission vs our allies", and we get to poke fun at the gorram Imperials (Just don't mention your guard armies around me and we'll get along fine! )

My initial impression is that Necrons are still a shooty army and the initiative two does no favours for the close combat elements. But that shooting is going to be pretty heavy.
If you absolutely must fight close combat its probably best done with some Wraiths, Spyders and Scarabs leave the Lychguard to make yourself a Royal court on the cheap and get the Overlord from the Barge.
Looks wise I think the Triach Stalkers will look really menacing and cool if you leave off the cockpit of replace it with some enclosed thing.

From my limited experience, the Dex suffers from New Dex Syndrome.

Once opponents have a chance to read it and figure out how to combat it, people will stop fretting.

i played a game against an Imhotep force with 8 Wraiths, a Deceiver Shard and found that the Difficult Terrain slowed down my forces considerably to the point that vehicles became immobilised by either terrain tests (on open ground) or the lightning strikes.

Any units not mounted in vehicles were also prone to the S8 lightning strikes.

It will take some time but without an FAQ you must just use best judgement on many of the rules.

Finally, this is definitely a 6th Ed Dex as there are many exclusions to 5th ed and hints that these will make more sense this time next year.

Imotek is strong but good players will be able to weather out the storm

I played my first game against the new dex today and my observations are:

Eldritch Lance Crypteks are a great medium tank hunting upgrade to a warrior squad, especially if all they are doing is babysitting an objective.

Scarabs are no longer first strike vanguard units. They need to sit behind the cron front line and leap out to munch tanks after the line has advanced.

Being Monstrous Creatures, C'tan can fire 2 shooting weapons - though rarely worth it. Get a shooting attack and versatility upgrade. I also learned that 40 guardsmen will take a C'tan down in melee - and it will explode and kill more guardsmen when it dies then it achieved in fighting. Though that last bit is almost certainly a trick of the dice.

Monoliths lost their Drop Pod style Deep Strike invulnerabiliy. They need to be careful where they try to land now.

Wraiths don't Get Back Up. Suck it wraiths! Mind you, I still think wraiths are one of the best units in the book.

How?

S3 cannot touch T7.

I'd imagine with Straken nearby for the Furious Charge.

I think I might try to do a 'walking dead' sorta list. Lots of warriors and red orbs backed up by some ghost arks.

Or Pat and I just got the stats wrong and farked up.

Bugger! I could have held the wraiths up alot longer if the exploding C'tan didn't kill 13 guardsmen.

Oh well, live and learn.

I'd also like to add that the C'tan shards tear it up for me. Being an Elite and less points makes me more bold with them. Their powers range from extremely cheap offensive power to large table affecting rules to I don't know why that is there..... Yes their statline is less than godlike though I think with the right combo of powers will make them appropriately costed....

@Archon Cryx You said it bro, I reckon this codex has solid choices...it'll just take time for us killbot playas just need figure out the finesse required to defeat point and click power armour wearin', Machine Spirit usin' Gadamn Marines.....

Well, after much time in the TheoryHammer Dojo, having actually had a game yesterday, my thoughts......

Eldritch Lance Crypteks are gold. 35 pts for anti tank ability in a Necron unit, and all those ablative wounds that just get back up. Just don't flub your Death or Glory to hit when you get Tank shocked off an objective!
36" range is decent, S8 is good, but why oh why don't they have the Lance rule?

Scarabs are tricky..........I think 2 x 5 man units is the sweet spot, cheap as dirt and great utility. Keeping them alive against a decent opponent is the tricky bit, but I think that is part of their use- sheer threat, especially to an IG gunline. Force your opponent to devote resources to their destruction which frees up the rest of your army.
Also, I think Entropic Strike is less about eating the vehicle the death, more about hitting the target, dropping its armour, then finishing it off with something else while you move on to the next target.

I'm quite happy with Wraiths, good Str, Rending, and 3++ all in a multiple attack unit with mobility. Units of 6 are going to be nasty. Although I really need to get some new models, the old ones keep making me think I get Reanimation Protocols..........

Immortals + Overlord is decent, Relentless and Res Orb makes the unit useful on the front line. Just take more than 5 like I did!

Monolith- there is no need ever to Deep Strike. Especially when it doesn't come on until the fourth turn. Lot of potential for the Lith now, but I didn't really get a chance to try it out..........

I like C'Tan shards, especially given that when they die they do damage as well.....great bomb unit, smash it into your opponents front lines and dare them to kill it..........two shooting weapons is a neat trick, but you should probably pair up Pyreshards with Moulder of Worlds instead of Transdimensional Thunderbolt like I did.......escort the Shard with a Wraith unit for some support and you have a decent assault force.


Overall, I think the new 'Crons will be OK, but will really hit the sweet spot in 6th ed, there is so much in the 'Cron dex that foreshadows 6th changes its not funny.........



D'Oh! You might have held up the Wraiths a bit longer, but then you would have had a C'Tan Shard eating your tanks too......

Except that you dont have a choice with it. It has to deep strike if it is in reserve.

So don't put it in Reserve?

See Angmar, we did it wrong. Apparently we need to CC the TH/SS terminators!

I still dont see many options to reliably deal with a Land raider from long range however.

Pfft, haven't you heard the new necron battle plan, just roll 6's ?

You know you're playing 40k and not Dystopian Wars, right?

Gauss weapons remind me of dystopian wars

thats not a new battle plan, cron players have been doing that for years lol

You mean the Tesla

Actually, necrons remind me of dystopian wars.

Asmodean - Why the obsession with long ranged anti tank? And isn't S10 Ap 1 Unlimited range a kind of super duper long ranged anti tank option anyway? SO it's only a one shot and pricey - still fine if it's the opening shot of the game and drops a nasty enemy vehicle! A Doomsday Ark has a fair bit of range, even if it isn't quite an anti tank specialist...

Imhotek's Lightning also offers potential long ranged anti tank. Sure it's random, but that night fight turn/s allows you to bring the "short range" stuff to within threat range.

And if 36" isn't enough, then DE also never had decent long ranged anti tank firepower... Clearly this is a deliberate feature of the codex, so it seems a nonsense to complain - otherwise prepare for my rants about poor DE's lack in this department!

And just like the Necrons, I've never really missed the extra range!

Between relatively cheap Heavy Destroyers, dirt cheap scarabs, well costed Harbringers of Destruction, Harbringers the Storm (maybe with warriors on a Ghost Ark), relatively pricey Triarch Stalkers, the very cool but pricey Doom Scythes, not to mention the cumulative effects of Gauss, plus a host of close combat options (Warscythes, C'Tan Shards, Canoptek Spyders) tbh, I don't actually see a lack of AT much at all! Just cheap long ranged stuff.

Even supposedly inferior Tesla Carbines have enough strength to threaten suppresion of anything up to a rhino, the annihilation barge has a chance even vs AV12! Hell, even a Monolith has the potential to slow down vehicles...

Of course Necrons will now play very different to marines, isn't that a big part of the attraction?

I think the key to understanding how Necrons will work is by considering their added resilience. Think Plague Marines - they certainly can be competitive despite lack of long range anti tank options (even if they take Obliterators, these can only target one or two vehicles a turn) - Ive certainly faced Plague Marines with nothing ranged above 24". Meltas, flamers, occaisional Plasma guns, and Power Fists can be enough!

I think it's still far too early to get too negative about Necrons, even if you have played several games with them now. For example, one can't easily proxy a Ghost Ark - that thing is huge! Sure, that means a bigger profile for enemy to target but it also means a wider screen to hide behind if such is your wont. Most negative drawbacks also brings a positive for the astute general.

I look forward to more games against the Necs, then we'll see. I'm hoping the new Necrons will prove to be about par with new Dark Eldar. Time will tell.

A few things i've noticed with the new dex.

1.Triach stalkers are awesomesauce. They whole twin linked thing is great. In competitive builds there should definatly be 2 of them(with heat rays)

2. Immortals should always have tesla carbines. Tesla(also from A barges) with stalkers equals whole units of dead marines.

3. Necrons don't need to kill tanks just shake and stun unless they have assault units in them in which case a immobile result see that threat ended.

4. Scarabs are still awesome too. Spyders make them a nightmare for people to deal with

5. Command Barges are retard good. Also seems like reliable AT.(somewhat)

6. Destroyer lords are great as well. Got preferred enemy and a points decrease. No longer ignores invuls but now pops tanks and walkers faster(as well as basic rank and file). No access to invuls for him but again cheaper.

These so far seem good from what i've seen so far. Still a bit biased but with more play tests i think this will still be no less true with other results.

Is that possible? My reading was no unit can have more than one lord or cryptek total.

I think he's okay. The wording says one per squad from "the Royal Court"

Unless you argue 2 Royal Courts count as "the Royal Court" I think Angmar's idea is okay.

It may be faqed otherwise, time shall tell...

Yeah my reading was that it was 1 model from each court per unit. Hence 2 destructionteks per unit of warriors.

That said, whilst it worked pretty well vs av12. There was still no answer for av14 aside from sheer stupid luck.

After playing 2 games of necrons i would say mass gauss is the best way to stop AV 14, not necessaily kill it but can definately immobalise it. Hit the AV 14 with a stalker and then just mass gauss and it is done.

How have people found keeping track of all AV reductions and No armour saves from the scarabs? It seems like one of those logistical nightmares that slows the game down.

Are you just keeping a bunch of d20's for peoples use?

Sure... if there were more than 2 of them at BS4 (one shot only...)

That can get rerolls to hit pretty easily (stalker) and if you had a Cryptec with the reroll D6 you can then reroll the penetration or damage rolls. Put a second overlord and Cryptec in the unit and you can virtually assure that the tank dies

Really? No reliable way to kill a land raider? Oh you meant Cheap and reliable at long range; well what is? Land raiders cost ~250pts for a reason

Just use a token that represents a -1 on a vehicle or no save on other models... Just like pain tokens, difficult terrain etc....

And you've just spent more than that for a 1 shot chance to kill it.

Stalker - 150
Overlord with TA - 110
Overlord with TA - 110 (you suggested a second one...)
Cryptek with Chron - ~50?

~430 points to deliver 2 single S10 hits... yes I would call that overly expensive to kill a land raider.

I dont think the codex is all doom and gloom. It certainly looks and feels different to most of the marine codexes out there...which is a good thing! Having unusual wargear and weapons gives the game more variety.
Like most codexes it has its good things (wraiths, scarabs, spyders, night scythes and immortals) and not so good things (much of the elites!)
Personally if I was to build a force (still debating) I would be going for a 80% shooty army backed up by a counter CC assault unit.
I have not read too much of the fluff yet, but the whole sleeping for 60 million years is ridiculous! Maybe 600 000 years, but 60 million??? I just dont see it happening.