Hey everyone,

I am going to be picking up some farrow minis next week and wanted some advice on my list. I basically went for this army purely on the fact that I liked the majority of the models in the faction - well, pretty much all of them.

This is what I want to start with:

Lord Carver
Road Hog
Rorsch and Brine
War Hog
6 man Brigands unit

25pts

What can I expect when fielding a Pig army, is this a good start and where should I think of taking the list from here?

Any advice is much appreciated!

tears.

There are not a lot of experience Farrow players that I know of - at least they don't get mentioned here too often...

Why are you aiming for the 25pt mark? Most things these days are either 15 or 35... 35 would be the best to aim towards - as the game really only starts getting balanced at this point.

There doesn't appear to be anything glaringly bad about the list - ticks most of the boxes.

If you do end up building to 35 - Maxing the Brigands and adding Targ would be a good start (he's out now, right?).

Targ's ancillary attack + the Road Hogs 10" spray would be funky...

So I'll start with a caveat, I'm also new to minions, haven't actually played pigs yet (though I am building a carver list).

1. Your list there is actually 24 points. You've fulfilled the tier three requirement of Carvers theme list so the brigands are worth a point less. You also get pathfinder on your first turn and the Brigands advance deploy (although they do that with thornfall anyway). If you actually played it the way you have it written (with the War Hog in Rorsh's battlegroup) then you actually have a 22 point list. Don't do that though, your warlock needs the fury and the Warhog won't benefit from mobility or batten down the hatches. (the two points off heavies in Rorsh's battlegroup is a trap, especially at low points).

2. Carver makes his beasts great. If you do go to 35 points consider another war hog on Carver. If you take another war hog for Carver and max out the brigands you're at 35 points and have what I'm looking to take at 35 points. That will take you to tier 4 and give your battlegroup advance move (always useful).

Pigs struggle a little bit but that's mostly because they are severely lacking in options. Carver though is competitive. Don't expect it to be easy but you'll still be able to do very well with him. I like Targ with the road hog, I just can't fit them all in at 35. Definitely at 50 points.

The first big issue is that the Road Hog isn't out until June. The second is that honestly, I wouldn't be using Rorsh and Brine until at least 35 points. They're brilliant, don't get me wrong, but they're a little hard to use and at lower points I find you won't get as much out of them. By contrast, Carver adores Brigands, and a max unit is exceptional with them. Quagmire on a max unit gives you 10 models able to lock down crucial enemy models and lets you spread out that -2 Defence a bit more.

So, for the list, I'd drop Rorsh and Brine, max the Brigands, and take a Gun Boar. This leaves you with 1 point to spare. If you don't want to wait until June for the Road Hog, grab a second War Hog and Targ and you've got 25 points exactly. I recommend multiple War Hogs anyway, because War Hogs are awesome and because when/if you get Arkadius, you'll find you want about three anyway. In fact, Carver, two War Hogs, Gun Boar, max Brigands, and Targ is what I used quite frequently for my 25 point matches when I was starting pigs. It's an extremely brutal list, capable of pulverising most opposition pretty easily. It also expands fairly easily to 35 points, where you can just add Rorsh and Brine for 34 points total (and when the Road Hog does come out, you can swap a War Hog for a Road Hog and you have 35 points exactly).

As an aside, you may find that extra infantry perform more effectively with Carver at 35 points than Rorsh and Brine. I've used the pair in 35 points a good bit, and they're damned effective. Sometimes though, sheer quantity of models have a quality all of their own, especially with Carver. The more models you have, the more models are affects by the Feat. Slaughterhousers, for example, can get to a staggering P+S 11+5d6 for damage rolls on Feat turn. Can give you the pleasure of watching one unit of six shred two Khador 'jacks in a single activation, if all goes well

Edit: About the Tier vs Pact thing tort mentions above, I wouldn't bother with the Tier list until you have multiple units of Brigands. Otherwise, I'd pay the extra point to give all your units Advance Deploy (very useful with Farrow infantry in general, and Brigands and the Razorback Crew in particular, as it lets them get a good deal further up the field and Dug In). The big reason for that is mostly that Farrow don't actually have a 1 point option, so there's nothing you can really do with it aside from swapping, say, a 2 point option for a 3 point option.

Also not taking into account the theme force bonus. You only have 1 unit so you lost nothing by taking the theme list, gain a point for the brigands, get advance move and pathfinder first turn. One unit gets advance deploy in the theme force.

Advance Deploy is better than Advance Move, for a number of small reasons. It gets you a whole inch further up the field, lets you start the game Dug In (which Advance Move would cancel), which is nice against some first turn shooting, and it lets you see where your opponent deploys before you set up. Since the Theme stops you from taking the other Minion solos, the only thing two points really gets you (since he already has Targ) is a min unit of Bone Grinders, who aren't too useful with Carver aside from the extra weapon master attacks on Feat turn (although with the low Mat and P+S, their usefulness then is largely up to how well you roll). Frankly, the usefulness of the pact versus the theme force is pretty much down to a case-by-case basis at this point.

Expanding to 35 points though, especially if you plan on taking more non-Brigand units, you should always be using the Pact with Carver.

Wait, actually, hold on, don't you need two units of Brigands to get the discount?

Farrow units get advanced deployment when you are thornfall alliance. Your beasts, warlock and solos get nothing. When you play the theme force one farrow brigand unit gets advanced deployment. You do need the two units to get the point discout, I was wrong about that but the pathfinder turn one still comes with the theme list and you lose nothing for it.

Sorry, I misread your post. However, I rather think you misread mine as well. I have my Minions book here, and in the list I proposed, you'd get absolutely nothing from taking the Tier over the Pact Since the list I proposed lacks Rorsh and Brine, you can't even get Tier 2. Not only that, but the list with Rorsh and Brine only has two Warbeasts, so you don't get the Tier 4 bonus. In fact, since you don't have the two Brigand units, you don't get Tier 3 either. So... yeah, you're right, there's not really a whole lot of difference one way or another

I was talking about the 35 point list you suggested.

Ah, I was under the impression we were still talking about the 25 point one.

Well, for the 35 points with Carver, I'd honestly go for Slaughterhousers and some utility stuff over Rorsh and Brine. All those Finisher attacks Quagmire the enemy Warcaster/Warlock and get half a dozen Mat 10 P+S 11+5d6 attacks against them. Good way to end a game.

I think I will start with 15 points:

Carver
2 Warhogs
6 man brigands

Hopefully I will expand to 35 in the future:

Carver
2 War Hogs
targ
rorsh and brine
10 man brigands
6 man slaughterhousers

what do you guys think?

Honestly, Targ, while good, isn't that amazing without a Gun Boar (or Road Hog). War Hogs rarely need the extra attack. Of course, when it comes to 2 point options, Thornfall don't have too many super effective options, so you may as well use him. Feel free to swap him out for Saxon Orrik or Alten Ashley though. Ashley makes a great sniper for picking off enemy support, or for killing crucial members of character units (the Black Thirteenth springs to mind). Orrik goes well with the Slaughterhousers, since they're occasionally in dire need of Pathfinder. I've never used Pendrake, but I imagine he could come in useful as well every now an then. Finally, there's the option for a min unit of Bone Grinders, who have a high accuracy shot (with a lower range and POW, admittedly) similar to Alten Ashley, with the added advantage that they benefit from Carver's Feat and can add four weapon master attacks on Feat turn. Even with P+S 9, you can still expect quite a bit of damage with a charge, provided you hit (a Quagmired target would probably be best, Mat 5 isn't exactly exceptional).

Still, all of the above comes down to what you, personally, find most effective in games. I advise you to try them out. Personally, I like Alten Ashley, but then I've rarely had a problem with terrain for my Slaughterhousers that has made me wish I'd brought Orrik along.

Other than that, looks fine. I would be slightly concerned abuot Fury, in that if a single War Hog dies you're going to have to start cutting for Fury. It shouldn't be too much of an issue if you play a little bit conservatively with the War Hogs and let your infantry do a lot of the heavy lifting, but it does make things a bit interesting.

Yeah I think once I see how it starts to play together I will get a better feel for what suits me.

Thanks a lot.

Also, I was looking at the gun crew option for pigs - what are they like?

The Razorback are not something I've ever used (I have them, but it often comes down to them or Gudrun in my Sturm and Drang lists, and I love Gudrun so much The other Warlocks don't help them too much and often have better options, so haven't tried them with Carver or Arkadius). Still, there's a bit of discussion about whether they're better or worse than a Gun Boar. The Razorback has a Power and range, but its actual threat range is shorter than the Gun Boar's, and it lacks the ability to boost, making it a good deal less able to project its threat and threaten high defence/arm targets. As they're not warbeasts, they don't benefit from Targ being able to effectively double their firepower either. On the flipside, you can nearly buy two for the cost of a Gun Boar, they don't worry your Warlock with Fury management, and two of them Dug In somewhere roughly central can command a lot of the table.

I have heard people say that they more or less need the Advance Deploy from the Pact if you want to get any use out of them, however. Advance Deployed means they can spend the first turn advancing and Digging In, and then they don't have the move for the rest of the game. That puts them 21" forward on the table, close enough to the action to provide support for your army right through the game. Without Advance Deployment, they'll spend the first two turns struggling to get somewhere where they can do anything, by whih point the game is nearly over.

I love my pigs and have a win ratio of 50% with them.

Things Ive learned.

Brigands: Rock! I like to take lots of minimum units of them and carver. They benefit alot from his ability to give them combined range attacks, dig in use them as cannons or move them forward and use them as cannons, six brigands gives you a rat 9 p 17 shot from each unit, you however get better points discount per guy from the tier list if you take max units. Dont forget Hog Wild Prayer, combined with carvers feat and charge bonus.

Slaughterhousers: Carvers feat while attacking a damaged beast or jack is brilliant. 9+5d6 damage. Just be careful they drop to being charged pretty quick.

Gun Boars Im not so fussed with: I often run them with rorsch. Just one to get a few shots off, you can still have targ force it to do an extra shot. I have also found that its a great way to hold on to rorsch if brine dies because he has an extra beast to transfer to. Get some nice dynamite throws out of rorsch before he goes.

Rorsch and Brine: Assasination runs.

Warhogs: Points, Powers and Stats wise its amongst some of the best beasts in the game. Try to make sure yopu attack models it can hit, its allways a shame to have it waste fury just trying to hit those pesky high defense cryx models.

Roadhog: No idea how it will go but i can think of plenty of nasty things to do.

Sturm and Drang: Never used yet to buy.

Targ: Has his uses, i generally only take him to fill points out.

Carver: Good but you have to get him in there, he will take down jacks if you use him right, he can even do his own assasination runs.

Arkadius: He is absolutely brilliant. The kademan and 3 warhogs is almost autowin in my opinion. The combinations that can pulled with his feat are rad. Ive had the most wins with him.

Razorbacks: Yet to get them, the only way i see them being effective is with sturm and drang. Otherwise they are just hitting the broadside of barns.