the good thing is I have nearly all the models already

LORDS

Vampire Lord
Sword of anti heroes (pending rulebook check)
Heavy A
Barded nightmare
The other trickster shard
Red fury
Quickblood
Lvl 1

Master necro
Lvl 4
Dispel

HEROES

Wight king
Bsb
Barded steed
Heavy A
Nightshroud
Lance

Necro lvl 1
Rod of flaming death
nightmare

Necro lvl 1

Wraith

Wraith

Wraith

Wraith

CORE

40 skeletons full command
40 skeletons full command spears
44 zombies full command

SPECIAL

2 fell bats
2 fell bats
2 fell bats

1 spirit host
1 spirit host
1 spirit host

11 black knights full command
barding
lances
banner of the barrows

I havent played in some time but would you think this will be a viable tournament list?

ok major overhaul to the above due to the sword of heroes not being what I thought...

LORDS
Vamp Lord - Barded steed, Heavy A, Shield, Ogre Blade, Red fury, Quickblood, The other trickster shard.

Master Necro - Lvl 4

HEROES
Necromancer - steed, staff of damnation

Necromancer - rod of flaming death

Wight king - BSB, barded steed, Heavy A, Shield, Lance, Ironcurse icon, Nightshroud.

Cairn wraith

Cairn wraith

Cairn wraith

CORE

40 skeletons, full command

40 Skeletons, full command, spears

44 zombies, full command

5 dire wolves, doomwolf

SPECIAL

10 black knights, lances, barding, full command, barrows banner

1 spirit host

1 spirit host

1 spirit host

2 fell bats

2 fell bats

2 fell bats

Well there we have it. What do you think?

seems like the only real punch is the black knights, most people will likely focus that out with shooting and then i'm not sure what your gonna do from there.

nice ammount of redirectors though

Agreed, but I am unsure how to fit in 600 points of core and still get 2-3 hammer units that can hold their own.

It seems in 8th that it really is all or nothing with the difficulty to achieve combined charges and the weakness in cav actually breaking units.

I wanted to stay away from big monsters like terrogeists and zombie dragons. Any ideas.

The two lord set up is pretty much all I actually like.

Hex wraiths are better the spirithost & good at clearing the way through divertors etc.. so the black night train with lord and BSB can carve thier way through the opponents army. Two hex wraiths units is about what you would want max.

I hate to say but I think three units of 50 skeletons Hd wp sh are the way forward. The individula cain wraiths are expensive, maybe a banshee or two would be better??.

Doom wolves again for what they cost not a bad buy, so have a few just for deployments and war machine hunting. 2-3 units IMO

Fell bats are good especially if you have them flaot along with the vampire lord so they can march.

IMO kep the heros down to a minimum and maximise elsewhere.

Hope that helps.

I am of the opinion the only core worth taking are zombies. 625 points of zombies.

No wolves you say? Bats are now cheaper and far better. Wolves are not fast cav anymore.

Agree on some points. I have a revised list without the wraiths but 25 grave guard instead (squeezed them in) BUT I really do hate buses in general so I am toning down the bus especially seeing as most of my army would not be able to march.

I dont have 625 points worth of zombies either so they are out. I actually thing the wolves are rubbish but just wanted some diversity.

I will take another look at bats as I had not really considered them.

Currently I am taking a whole new look and actually creating a list much like my old 7th ed tournament list but with more infantry.

I will post both lists tomorrow and see which one you guys would pick.

Nope batswarms are pants...........

Yea, no one wants to have 200+ zombies!

Batswarms are pretty terrible, but Fell Bats are great!

The models I have available

3 foot necromancers
1 mounted necro
3 mounted vamps
3 foot vamps
1 foot bsb vamp
3 foot wight kings
8 cairn wraiths
2 banshees
1 mounted wight king
40 skeletons with hws with command
40 skeletons with spears with command
70 zombies with command
1 vargulf
2 blackcoaches
3 x 10 black knights with full command
40 ghouls 2 ghasts
4 batswarms
4 spirit hosts
20 dire wolves
25 graveguard full command
6 fell bats

Well MM here is my version of your list with the models you have. Will it work? It might, but it may take a few games to get used to...or it might not work at all.

It isn't based around the one big unit of grave guard to win you the game but is instead based on using large blocks to hold things then smashing them in the flanks. Might not be your cup of tea at all.

Vampire Lord - 376
Sword of Might, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Quickblood, Red Fury, Heavy Armour.

Master Necromancer - 225
Level 4, Dispel Scroll.

Vampire - 188
Additional Hand Weapon, Red Fury, Talisman of Endurance.

40 Skeletons - 240
FC, Banner of Eternal Flame, Spears.

40 Skeletons - 230
FC.

50 Zombies - 160
Standard, Muso.

2 x 5 Black Knights - 130 each
Lances, Barding

3 x 2 Fell Bats - 32 each

2 x 12 Grave Guard - 154 each
Great Weapons, Standards.

2 x 4 Wraiths - 200 each.

Total - 2488.

Don't run any of the core units in a horde. Keep those ranks so when you smash into the flank of the enemy you held up in the previous turn, you will break their steadfast, win combat and run them down.

If you have the choice to charge head on into a unit you are not sure you will beat, don't do it. Make them charge you next turn while making sure they can't get into your flank. This will also allow you to raise back some guys you lost from taking the charge rather then being 2 rounds of combat down.

You can't allow your smaller units to take on things by themselves unless there is an open flank or they are weak unit. Use the bats to hunt warmachines and set up your flanking charges.

May or may not work, but I think it would be fun to find out!

Ok I have been mucking about with lists for a couple of days.

I still like this style of build because it has at least 1.5 real hammers. I cant see anyway to get around this and still remain as effective. Gimmicks just never seem to work for me. The only thing that seems to work is numbers.

I am finding with the new book that most of the new stuff is pretty unappealing. I am also finding that the ability to make and take wounds is the name of the game now. Therefore no longer can the Vamp lord sit it out as a passive observer. I hadnt realised just how much the Weapon Skill Hat would be missed. I think this missing item is the sole reason that VC arent as threatening as they used to be.


2400 points
Vamp Lord
ogre blade, lvl 1, book of arkan, barded steed, heavy armour, shield, quick blood, red fury

Master Necromancer
Lvl 4

Wight King
Heavy armour, lance, barded steed, shield, nightshroud

Necromancer
Lvl 1, rod of flaming death

Necromancer
Lvl 1, ruby ring

39 skeletons full command

39 skeletons full command
spears

20 zombies full command

5 wolves

5 wolves

25 grave guard full command
screaming banner, great weapons

10 black knights full command
banner of barrows, lances, barding

1 spirit host

1 spirit host

2 fell bats

2 fellbats

I would really like to have a scroll in this list. I would also like some lvl 2's but bodies are more important. I could drop a wolves and boost the 3 core units more as well. Would of loved to fit in the staff of damnation but I have always found these buff situational spells very hard to use so I think simple missiles will be easier and more tactically flexible. What do you guys think? Will it do ok versus a variety of opponents? Where do you think it will struggle?

Well yes and no. While I think the idea has value the list would quickly be disected by a good opponent. The smaller elite units would be picked on first while the large core would be ignored. Once the elites were gone then the rest would be avoided to rack up an easy victory.

I have found that VC work best packed close with some real threats buried within the army. This way if anyone wanted to engage one part they must engage all. If delpoyment is right this could mean that your whole army is fighting just half of your opponents army. The smaller units in my list are completely worthless so losing them will not lose me the game. Someone will really have to commit their forces if I play my list right.

I dont plan on running the blackknights as an army unto themselves.

I like the list, I've a few ideas but will have to check the book out for points. Mainly it centers around you taking some 2 -3 Vampire heroes and running 2 - 3 x 10 strong black knight units. you drop the necromancers of course.maybe the wight king as well??

OK I"M BAAACK
Played around with AB and came up with this funny combo

Necromancer Lord 4th level 200pts [No bunker sorry.]

3 x vampire heroes level 1; mounted on barded nightmares. Hvy Ar Sh. 127pts each

CORE @ 600pts
2 x 40 skeletons, Light armour, shield, musician, standard. 220pts each
4 x 5 Dire wolves 40pts each

SPECIAL 1205pts so 5pts over
3 x 9 black Knights w barding, lance, standard , musicians. 254pts each
25 Grave Guard w heavy armour, shield 295pts
2 x 1 spirit host
2 x 2 fell bats

I was wondering if I could fit it all in, comes in at 2392pts or some such. Not that I'd expect you to run this but might give you some food for thought and a bit of fun for me trying to fit it all in. A real MSU vampire list, 13 -14 deployments (you'll have to adjust the special as it's over by 5 pts) with at least 4 serious units, no magic items though WTF. haha.

It's bloody huge w 159 figs, a real undead horde.

Umm not sure this is that huge. I like it though and its very much like my qualifying UK GT 6th ed VC army. This could be done as I have all the models for this. I will tweak some things but expect this to be beaten in almost all phases. A little tweaking could make it a better list though.