1 Lord: 350 Pts. 14.0%
1 Hero: 163 Pts. 6.5%
4 Core Units: 625 Pts. 25.0%
8 Elite Units: 1205 Pts. 48.1%
3 Rare Units: 150 Pts. 6.0%
*************** 1 Lord ***************
Archmage, Level 4 Upgrade
+ Ring of Fury, Loremaster's Cloak, Silver Wand
+ High Magic
- - - > 350 Points
*************** 1 Hero ***************
Noble
+ Great Weapon
+ Radient Gem of Hoeth lore of metal/shadow/fire
+ Battlestandard Bearer
- - - > 163 Points
*************** 4 Core Units ***************
10 Archers, Musician
- - - > 115 Points
10 Archers, Musician
- - - > 115 Points
17 Sea Guard, Shields, Musician, Standartenträger
+ Banner of Eternal Flame
- - - > 246 Points
16 Spearmen, Musician
- - - > 149 Points
*************** 8 Elite Units ***************
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Spears, Musician
- - - > 92 Points
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Spears, Musician
- - - > 92 Points
9 Swordmasters of Hoeth, Musician
- - - > 141 Points
9 Swordmasters of Hoeth, Musician
- - - > 141 Points
10 White Lions of Chrace, Musician, Standardbearer
+ Banner of Sorcery
- - - > 218 Points
10 White Lions of Chrace, Musician
- - - > 156 Points
5 Dragon Princes of Caledor, Musician, Champion
+ Foe Bane
- - - > 205 Points
5 Dragon Princes of Caledor, Musician
- - - > 160 Points
*************** 3 Rare Units ***************
Great Eagle
- - - > 50 Points
Great Eagle
- - - > 50 Points
Great Eagle
- - - > 50 Points
Total Points Highelves : 2493
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Lord: 310 Pts. 12.4%
1 Hero: 158 Pts. 6.3%
4 Core Units: 625 Pts. 25.0%
8 Elite Units: 1205 Pts. 48.1%
4 Rare Units: 200 Pts. 8.0%
*************** 1 Lord ***************
Archmage, Level 4 Upgrade
+ Ring of Fury, Silver Wand
+ High Magic
- - - > 310 Points
*************** 1 Hero ***************
Noble
+ Great Weapon
+ Loremaster's Cloak
+ Battlestandard Bearer
- - - > 158 Points
*************** 4 Core Units ***************
10 Archers, Musician
- - - > 115 Points
10 Archers, Musician
- - - > 115 Points
17 Sea Guard, Shields, Musician, Standartenträger
+ Banner of Eternal Flame
- - - > 246 Points
16 Spearmen, Musician
- - - > 149 Points
*************** 8 Elite Units ***************
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Spears, Musician
- - - > 92 Points
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Spears, Musician
- - - > 92 Points
9 Swordmasters of Hoeth, Musician
- - - > 141 Points
9 Swordmasters of Hoeth, Musician
- - - > 141 Points
10 White Lions of Chrace, Musician, Standardbearer
+ Banner of Sorcery
- - - > 218 Points
10 White Lions of Chrace, Musician
- - - > 156 Points
5 Dragon Princes of Caledor, Musician, Champion
+ Foe Bane
- - - > 205 Points
5 Dragon Princes of Caledor, Musician
- - - > 160 Points
*************** 4 Rare Units ***************
Great Eagle
- - - > 50 Points
Great Eagle
- - - > 50 Points
Great Eagle
- - - > 50 Points
Great Eagle
- - - > 50 Points
Total Points Highelves : 2498
Full Version: HE MSU 2.500/ETC
I can see what you are trying for; but I'm not a fan of the 50pt banner of sorcery on 10 WL, they will be a prime target, rather then forcing hard decisions onto your opponents you have given them an easy first target.
I would also up the LSG and spears to 20 strong, any less and I dont see them doing anything at all. You pay for spears, and have ASF so I would try and use that as much as possible.
I also think the warbanner would be ideal on one of those core units giving them bit of a boost.
The foe bane DP champ is eating up a chunk of points. I would go for something a little more choppy so it does more then 3x S3 attacks Vs Ethereals. Biting blade and charmed shield is fun for stalling characters in a challenge. Or ruby ring.
i dont they think they are as much of an easy target as you think.
1) they are resilient to shooting
2) to kill them you need to come to CC
3) MOST players dont take lores like-fire/heavens any other missile they could have i can dispell. EVEN when i go VS heavy MM s list i can protect them with a +2ward vs magic
the spears are more of a banker than an actual block.
i havent really created an opinion about the SG since i have only played 2 games with this list ( both games they did ok ).
yes. the DP champ isnt something i have set on. its more of a test aiming to make me able wounding monster or character on +2
1) they are resilient to shooting
2) to kill them you need to come to CC
3) MOST players dont take lores like-fire/heavens any other missile they could have i can dispell. EVEN when i go VS heavy MM s list i can protect them with a +2ward vs magic
the spears are more of a banker than an actual block.
i havent really created an opinion about the SG since i have only played 2 games with this list ( both games they did ok ).
yes. the DP champ isnt something i have set on. its more of a test aiming to make me able wounding monster or character on +2
Heres a 2400pt HE army I wrote up for swordmaster who does the HE MSU battle reports. The problem I find with a magic is when you only have one spell that can be cast of any significance. Then the opponent is just going to throw all his dice at it stopping it. If though you have 10 spells & 4 or 5 can do stuff tha'll hurt the enemy and don't cost an arm and a leg to cast. Things start to get interesting, as spells get through and you don't have to throw 6 dice but instead 3pd at a number , reducing your chances of blowing up. You also have an additional 100pts to add in 
QUOTE
Now you have really made a fine army, but I feel you have missed out on takeing advantage of the synergise available. Perhaps not utilizing some of the strengths HE have to offer. Like shooting and magic working to gether. 
You're going to like this. haha.
You have a 4th level mage which I'm sure is adequate but have you ever considered 2x 4th level mages and the synergise thet can offer with differnet lores. Now I found this works rather well back in 2010 when I took two 4th level shamens to the Australian masters. One Orc & One Goblin. shamen. It was the sheer number of spells that could do the same thing in different ways that made it so powerful and difficult for my opponents to stop.
So I though to apply this to your list, without changing the fundementals. So I had to keep the following troops, the only real change being a bunker unit of 15 archers with Standard of Discipline replacing a spear unit. Adding 5 spearmen to the existing one though that is not something you have to do.
BUNKER; well it gives you a unit that does something without endangering you mages, and in the end you have 45 shots total.
15 First Archers @ 195 Pts
Longbow; Standard Bearer; Musician
Standard of Discipline [15]
10 Archers @ 115 Pts
Longbow; Musician
10 Archers @ 115 Pts
Longbow; Musician
25 SpearElves @ 240 Pts The "MINWAZOR BOYZ"
Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
5 Ellyrian Reavers @ 95 Pts
Bow (swap); Light Armour
5 Ellyrian Reavers @ 95 Pts
Bow (swap); Light Armour
10 Swordmasters @ 150 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour
10 Swordmasters @ 150 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour
10 White Lions @ 150 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Lion Pelt
10 White Lions @ 150 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Lion Pelt
5 Dragon Princes @ 150 Pts
Barding; Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield
5 Dragon Princes @ 150 Pts
Barding; Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield
Great Eagle @ 50 Pts
Great Eagle @ 50 Pts
So pretty much what you got already though you may be missing a musician here and there.
Now for the fun part.
Archmage @ 275.0 Pts
Magic Level 4; Lore of High Magic
Jewel of the Dusk [15] +1 PD
Archmage @ 270.0 Pts
General; Magic Level 4; Lore of Shadow
Silver Wand [10] +1 Spell
NO BSB YUP. Fun huh hahaha. That though is the price you have to pay for what I believe gives you an excellent magic and shooting phase plus supports your combat trops. Having seen what your BSB does, I'm thinking. .. you don't need him.
[in the words of Donald Truimph YOUR FIRED] Yeah sarcasim is good.
It's not about MINWAZOR, it's about casting SUCCESSFULLY many spells. MSU spells for a MSU army, hhhmmm I might coin that. Also less chance of a miscast with casting of only 2-4 PD Max.
MINDWAZOR still is useful as something to make your bunker a no go zone. As a mere threat, as often is more powerful then the actual spell itself. :wink: you should know a few tricks there. I'm not going to go over the spells you know what they are. You should see what the lores of Nurgle and Shadow do for each other, there is some nasty nasty stuff there. 8-[
The trade off is you lose a BSB rerolls for the gain of a 4th level & mage LD 10 general. IMO it's a much better option. Safer as well as you don't have to throw your characters into the thick of combat.
The silver wand is a must on the shadow mage, the jewel dusk is as well ideal for the high magic &* much cheaper then the banner of sorcery. You can always 1 dice drain magic if the dice gods are cruel. Well that my reccomendation, as I believe over protecting mages is like a busted condom, once it's in contact with the enemy, GAME OVER.
Man it is painfully hard to fit stuff into a HE army, twin linked 4th level mages eerrgghhh. More so even :-({|= . yeah yeah cry me a river. May be a crap idea, but there you go mate. Hope you enjoyed it.
You're going to like this. haha.
You have a 4th level mage which I'm sure is adequate but have you ever considered 2x 4th level mages and the synergise thet can offer with differnet lores. Now I found this works rather well back in 2010 when I took two 4th level shamens to the Australian masters. One Orc & One Goblin. shamen. It was the sheer number of spells that could do the same thing in different ways that made it so powerful and difficult for my opponents to stop.
So I though to apply this to your list, without changing the fundementals. So I had to keep the following troops, the only real change being a bunker unit of 15 archers with Standard of Discipline replacing a spear unit. Adding 5 spearmen to the existing one though that is not something you have to do.
BUNKER; well it gives you a unit that does something without endangering you mages, and in the end you have 45 shots total.
15 First Archers @ 195 Pts
Longbow; Standard Bearer; Musician
Standard of Discipline [15]
10 Archers @ 115 Pts
Longbow; Musician
10 Archers @ 115 Pts
Longbow; Musician
25 SpearElves @ 240 Pts The "MINWAZOR BOYZ"
Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
5 Ellyrian Reavers @ 95 Pts
Bow (swap); Light Armour
5 Ellyrian Reavers @ 95 Pts
Bow (swap); Light Armour
10 Swordmasters @ 150 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour
10 Swordmasters @ 150 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour
10 White Lions @ 150 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Lion Pelt
10 White Lions @ 150 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Lion Pelt
5 Dragon Princes @ 150 Pts
Barding; Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield
5 Dragon Princes @ 150 Pts
Barding; Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield
Great Eagle @ 50 Pts
Great Eagle @ 50 Pts
So pretty much what you got already though you may be missing a musician here and there.
Now for the fun part.
Archmage @ 275.0 Pts
Magic Level 4; Lore of High Magic
Jewel of the Dusk [15] +1 PD
Archmage @ 270.0 Pts
General; Magic Level 4; Lore of Shadow
Silver Wand [10] +1 Spell
NO BSB YUP. Fun huh hahaha. That though is the price you have to pay for what I believe gives you an excellent magic and shooting phase plus supports your combat trops. Having seen what your BSB does, I'm thinking. .. you don't need him.
[in the words of Donald Truimph YOUR FIRED] Yeah sarcasim is good.It's not about MINWAZOR, it's about casting SUCCESSFULLY many spells. MSU spells for a MSU army, hhhmmm I might coin that. Also less chance of a miscast with casting of only 2-4 PD Max.
MINDWAZOR still is useful as something to make your bunker a no go zone. As a mere threat, as often is more powerful then the actual spell itself. :wink: you should know a few tricks there. I'm not going to go over the spells you know what they are. You should see what the lores of Nurgle and Shadow do for each other, there is some nasty nasty stuff there. 8-[
The trade off is you lose a BSB rerolls for the gain of a 4th level & mage LD 10 general. IMO it's a much better option. Safer as well as you don't have to throw your characters into the thick of combat.
The silver wand is a must on the shadow mage, the jewel dusk is as well ideal for the high magic &* much cheaper then the banner of sorcery. You can always 1 dice drain magic if the dice gods are cruel. Well that my reccomendation, as I believe over protecting mages is like a busted condom, once it's in contact with the enemy, GAME OVER.
Man it is painfully hard to fit stuff into a HE army, twin linked 4th level mages eerrgghhh. More so even :-({|= . yeah yeah cry me a river. May be a crap idea, but there you go mate. Hope you enjoyed it.
ok let me tell you some thoughs of mine.
I have played many games with MSUHE but only 2 with this particular list.
my experience tells me :
1) MSU without BSB is out of the question
2) IF i take 2xlvl4 the list MIGHT work BUT i will drop 2 units to fit him in.
3) 2 units = either no DPs or 2 elites. . so the question is . Can i afford a second lvl4? losing 2 elites in an MSU is VERY PAINFUL.
4) i have noticed that the lvl4 HE magic with 6 spells is a total killer. probably the best mage you can get . In both games he did more than his share of the loot.
5) although i noticed the lack of another support mage like ( bsb lvl1 mage or lvl2 normal mage with annulian) i wouldnt pick shadow for the mindrazor for sure. mainly because of miasma and wither ( to boost archers) i dont really need razor when having all the ASF high S units ready to cut through the enemy.
also keep in mind that mindrzor is much more hard to pass now with 4 dice per spell . he will scroll it when it matters and i will 2 spells from lore of high magic which are great
I have played many games with MSUHE but only 2 with this particular list.
my experience tells me :
1) MSU without BSB is out of the question
2) IF i take 2xlvl4 the list MIGHT work BUT i will drop 2 units to fit him in.
3) 2 units = either no DPs or 2 elites. . so the question is . Can i afford a second lvl4? losing 2 elites in an MSU is VERY PAINFUL.
4) i have noticed that the lvl4 HE magic with 6 spells is a total killer. probably the best mage you can get . In both games he did more than his share of the loot.
5) although i noticed the lack of another support mage like ( bsb lvl1 mage or lvl2 normal mage with annulian) i wouldnt pick shadow for the mindrazor for sure. mainly because of miasma and wither ( to boost archers) i dont really need razor when having all the ASF high S units ready to cut through the enemy.
also keep in mind that mindrzor is much more hard to pass now with 4 dice per spell . he will scroll it when it matters and i will 2 spells from lore of high magic which are great
The idea behnd a second mage is about managing risk & basically getting more bang for your buck.
1) No BSB, and you shouldn't leave home without one, unless there was a better return. A second 4th level mage is a better return.
-1a.Also general will have LD 10 (due to banner) is a 1/12 chance of a failed LD test compared to LD 9 = 1/6 chance. So almost as good as a BSB, also cheaper, and gets you more magic
. -1b. You don't need a BSB unless your losing.
-1c. A BSB is a passive defense opposed to an active offense/defense with another mage. After all if you're winning he won't add much.
2) No units dropped if you take what I have written down.
3) "As above"
4) So 2 mages with 10 spells will be what, AMAZING??
5) It's also NOT about mindrazor, in fact the whole idea is to cast no more then 3-4 dice at a spell. I'd go so far as to suggest NOT picking MINWAZOR. Keep your mages safe from miscasts IMO.
-5a. Enfeebling Foe 2PD risky/3PD safe - Reducing your opponents strength when he attacks you, so increasing your survivability.
-5b. Withering 3PD risky/4PD safe - Reducing the opponents T so that your massed bow fire can kill things easier. OR help your spear elves kill things. Toughness one or two is a great leveler.
-5c. Combine this with all the good cheap 2PD casting HE spells.
Like a horse I can lead you to water but I can't make you drink.
You must think I'm activly trying to make your list worse. I am you know. 
My suggestion is to try two mages without a BSB. Aim at getting one useful spell of each turn at minimum. Aim at spells as if they will roll 2.5 per dice, you should extract any dispel scroll by turn one or two and then proceed to cast 1-2 spells successfully after that. If you are clever you'll be able to save one dice and single cast for an extra spell once in awhile, for 3 spells. ie Courage of Aenarion, Saphrey shield, even Fury of Khaine.
i am locked in on the BSB issue .... MSU without bsb is... MADNESS !!
shadow is great lore but honestly i dont think i really need it . First of all there is no way i can do 6 spells +1 bound per turn so 10+1 with higher average casting value isnt as good since normally i will cast 2 or 3
if i was to include another mage ( which i want because of annulian ) it would be lvl1-2 shadow/death/metal/heavens.
i will try to make a 2lvl4 MSU + BSB but i dont think that will work.
the principles of MSU is against it ( low on characters = more units )
shadow is great lore but honestly i dont think i really need it . First of all there is no way i can do 6 spells +1 bound per turn so 10+1 with higher average casting value isnt as good since normally i will cast 2 or 3
if i was to include another mage ( which i want because of annulian ) it would be lvl1-2 shadow/death/metal/heavens.
i will try to make a 2lvl4 MSU + BSB but i dont think that will work.
the principles of MSU is against it ( low on characters = more units )
I conceed that 2x lord mages + a bsb will not work. It's the selection that makes having two mages work, not necessarily the number of spells you cast.
OK bloody High Elves
don't take up my fabulous ideas hahaha (yeah right). If you ever get bored, have a crack at it. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
I played a fairly MSU army at rumble with a BSB. Most of the time I used his re rolls were double 1 break tests and needless to say I failed them regardless.
I think not having a bsb can be done if you are good enough to ensure you are winning combats. However it is nice to have a bit of insurance just incase.
I think not having a bsb can be done if you are good enough to ensure you are winning combats. However it is nice to have a bit of insurance just incase.
guys try to see that the bsb is not only for break tests.
fear/terror/panics ( MSU= panic a lot from shooting ) .
BSB has a million uses . break tests are one of them. but the most important is panics .
fear/terror/panics ( MSU= panic a lot from shooting ) .
BSB has a million uses . break tests are one of them. but the most important is panics .
I think he's craking Brendan, soon we'll have him eating out of our palms. Muhawhawhawhawhawhaw!.
This is not the BSB we are looking for .................
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